The A-10

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-09-26 12:28am

Cool animation. But...err....do you know anything about the armor....?

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-09-26 12:29am

The A-10's should stay. They are outstanding aircraft when used properly.
I dont think they are ugly. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The Air Force traditionally disdains close air support aircraft and anything that is slow.

If they no longer want it, transfer the A-10's to the Marines, or give them to the Army and let the Army provide its own CAS.

A-10 pilots seem to like flying them alot, even if they are primitive by today's standards.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-09-26 12:32am

I think a lot of our weapons were designed to fight Russia. The Tomcat, the B-52, the Spirit, the Nighthawk, the Abrams, etc. Now that we have no huge enemy like Russia, we have to change our weapons to fight smaller enemies like the terrorists. So, yeah precision weapons would be great for our needs.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 12:33am

Another good reason to keep the A-10!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-26 12:33am

Icehawk wrote:The A-10 is a cool plane but from what ive heard its gonna be replaced by the F-35 Joint Strik Fighter in the years to come. I think the US military is trying to start phasing out using brute force "in your face" weapons like the A-10 and utilize as much guided precision based weaponry as possible for the future. Its kinda sad but it makes sense.

Yes the A-10 is to be replaced by the F-35. It will however be one of the last aircraft replaced. The ageing F-16 fleet will be first priority.

However by the time the F-35 shows up in really large numbers, it's going to be 2010-15. By that point the A-10 fleet will be quite aged, and its ability to survive in the face of the latest MANDAPS and tactical lasers greatly in doubt. However IIRC the A-10 is suppose to last till 2020 and has limited upgrades planned for through 2010.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-09-26 12:52am

I find it hard to think that a plane like the F-35 will replace the A-10 soon, as they are completely different airplanes that fit different roles. And the A-10 is great for fighting these small countries, as it can take a beating from triple A and small MANPADS missiles. It doesnt require extensive support facilities and can operate from rough frontal bases and is a rugged airplane.

Shaka[Zulu] · Post by **Shaka[Zulu]** » 2002-09-26 12:55am

rubbish... all of it. My prediction is that the A-10 will still be in service -- be it with the AF, ARMY or Corps -- when the last B-52 goes to the boneyard. The Air Force has never really appreciated it (considering its' love for 'higher faster farther' that is no surprise)... and they really HATE that it is the only plane in their inventory that the gropos LOVE and WANT for themselves. The only thing keeping them from retiring them is that if they do send them to bones, one of the other services will send teams in to 'appropriate' them...

the AF would never live it down if that were to happen, so the beloved Hog will be in the stable forever, even if it is only in the guard.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-26 01:01am

NF_Utvol wrote:I find it hard to think that a plane like the F-35 will replace the A-10 soon, as they are completely different airplanes that fit different roles. And the A-10 is great for fighting these small countries, as it can take a beating from triple A and small MANPADS missiles. It doesnt require extensive support facilities and can operate from rough frontal bases and is a rugged airplane.

Equipped with a dozen or so of the new small diameter bombs, I think the F-35 could do a good job of it. Don't forget that the main weapon of the A-10 has always been AGM-65; the gun is simply too risky to often. And the F-35 with the external pylons can effectively transport just as many of them as the A-10 would.

The A-10 really can't take a beating from MANPADS, not modern one anyway. The older ones with expanding rod warheads are quite likely to kill it with a single hit, and the newest ones like Mistral are going to be quite lethal.

Mistral also happens to make up over half of the worlds yearly SAM exports; it's going to become the new RPG-7/SA-7 of man portable rockets.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-09-26 01:02am

I think the A-10 will be defintely be here until 2010. The USAF wanted too get rid of it before Desert Storm where it proved it's value. Truth is they can't ger rid of if it cause the Army & the Corps will be very pissed...also the Joint Chiefs when the US Army had too take out more enemies and get more casualties then needed.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-09-26 01:03am

Speaking of the BUFF, their predicted service life is into 2040, and it is expected to go farther than that, especially in guard units and reserve. You know you have a good plane when it will be almost 100 years since its first flight (1952) when the design finally retires. It will be the same way with the C-130 when it retires, it was first flown in '53 if im not mistaken

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-26 01:07am

NF_Utvol wrote:Speaking of the BUFF, their predicted service life is into 2040, and it is expected to go farther than that, especially in guard units and reserve. You know you have a good plane when it will be almost 100 years since its first flight (1952) when the design finally retires. It will be the same way with the C-130 when it retires, it was first flown in '53 if im not mistaken

C-130 first flight was 1954, first production model rolled of the line in 55. But that’s nothing.

No one actually knows how long the worlds DC-3's will last, not one has even reached the end of its airframe life! One aircraft built in 1939 and still flying in Peru for an airline is thought to have another 240 years of airframe life left!

Now that’s long lasting..

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-09-26 01:09am

One thing you must take into consideration. The F-35, with its ducted engines for STOL means that is one more thing to tear up. Remember the old line Keep It Simple Stupid (im not calling anyone stupid). The A-10 is simple (comparitively) and has less things to get shot off and tear up than the more modernized F-35. Hey, im all for the F-35 and F-22, i just dont think we should be so anxious to replace tried and true aircraft like the A-10 with planes that havent even been proven in battle.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-09-26 01:11am

sea skimmer wrote:No one actually knows how long the worlds DC-3's will last, not one has even reached the end of its airframe life! One aircraft built in 1939 and still flying in Peru for an airline is thought to have another 240 years of airframe life left!

A couple years ago, the USAF refitted a squadron of old surplus C-47s with advanced avionics and new turboprob engines and sold them to the Columbian Air Force. And American Airlines still flies a couple for short route cargo usage, among MANY small regional cargo carriers and tour lines.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-26 01:24am

NF_Utvol wrote:
sea skimmer wrote:No one actually knows how long the worlds DC-3's will last, not one has even reached the end of its airframe life! One aircraft built in 1939 and still flying in Peru for an airline is thought to have another 240 years of airframe life left!
A couple years ago, the USAF refitted a squadron of old surplus C-47s with advanced avionics and new turboprob engines and sold them to the Columbian Air Force. And American Airlines still flies a couple for short route cargo usage, among MANY small regional cargo carriers and tour lines.

Something like 1000 are still in used around the world. South America and New Guinea are full of them because of the good passenger load, short runway requirements and general rugged cheep design.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-26 01:26am

NF_Utvol wrote:One thing you must take into consideration. The F-35, with its ducted engines for STOL means that is one more thing to tear up. Remember the old line Keep It Simple Stupid (im not calling anyone stupid). The A-10 is simple (comparitively) and has less things to get shot off and tear up than the more modernized F-35. Hey, im all for the F-35 and F-22, i just dont think we should be so anxious to replace tried and true aircraft like the A-10 with planes that havent even been proven in battle.

It is and will however be far less likely to be hit, and will be able to effective carry out its mission without the need to enter the range of optical light triple A and MANPADS.

Anyway, by the time the change over happens I dont think the A-10's would be worth the huge pile of money needed to rebuild them for another decade at best of service.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-09-26 01:45am

No armor answer.....oh well.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-09-26 12:50pm

When did the last production run of the A-10 end? Ive been kind of curious about that.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-09-26 12:57pm

A-10 production ended in 1984.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-09-26 01:11pm

Oh, ok. Thanks

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 01:12pm

are you sure? I thought it went on longer than that.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-09-26 01:25pm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf39.htm

There are a couple of other websites that mention the end of production in 1984. However, I have noticed many of these websites outright plaugerize (spelling?) each other.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-26 01:28pm

plagerize

Damn, that's a while ago!

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-26 01:29pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:I think a lot of our weapons were designed to fight Russia. The Tomcat, the B-52, the Spirit, the Nighthawk, the Abrams, etc. Now that we have no huge enemy like Russia, we have to change our weapons to fight smaller enemies like the terrorists. So, yeah precision weapons would be great for our needs.

We still have China, dont we? Maybe there should be a sixth branch of the Military with nothing but precision strike weapons.

Deimos Anomaly · Post by **Deimos Anomaly** » 2002-09-26 03:21pm

There was IIRC a case where an A-10 attacked and destroyed an airborne helicopter with its gun.

RadiO · Post by **RadiO** » 2002-09-26 03:29pm

I remember it was an Mi-8, and the A-10 in question was subsequently named Chopper Popper.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The A-10

Should the A-10 Stay?