BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR HISPANICS/ARABS!

[Azeron]

well I don;t think European Culture exists anymore, I think its basically american culture in denial.

[Colonel Olrik]

well I don;t think European Culture exists anymore, I think its basically american culture in denial.

Ah.. Here he is.. Old Az..
Well, at least we still have football, the one that is actually played with feet.
And lot's of castles and real ancient history.

[Azeron]

Culture is who you are as a people today, not a thousand years ago. Granted is has affect, but when you live and interact fairly closelyfor 2000 years, real differences break down, and people stop thinking of germans and austrians as seperate people, and more like europeans.

Granted yes there are differnces, such as the french, but as for differnces between cultures, they are more like local customs, than different cultures. We generally view the world the same way, except with maybe different political orientation, europe os more liberal than american, hence its policies are different, but make no mistake from LA to berlin, how people think has been an evolution of clashing ideas all way back in the days of socrates to Locke and beyond.

With the advent of modern communication and transportation technology, over the past 50 - 60 years we have been melding, coming to a greater understanding of ourselves and our place in the world in realtion to each other.

Compare the culture connection between American and europe, and say Europe and Arabia, or say Europe and China. How big is the difference? its a whooping one. Even after we reformed the japs after WW2, they are still almost a 180 degrees different from US, from philosphy to conceptually understanding of the world, and how we interact with each other.

Enter in the next assunmption, is basically after WW2 American culture has evolved faster, and been more pallateable to people around the world, and especially in europe. In this new age the source of dominance has been NYC and Los Angelos. and by and large aside from the Beetles, culture has been flowing in 1 direction from america to europe. Not to say this is bad, I don;t like hollywood bastardization more than anyone else, and I am more likely to listen Baach than the newest incarnation of the Back Street Boys.

I think that this has led to allot of resentment on the part of europe who for the past 1000 years dominated the generation of culture.

In effect what I am surmizing, is that in america and europe we are basically living in a mono-culutral "zone". Whether thats bad or good. well thats up for the people decide ever time they go buy a new CD or decide if they want to see the newest hollywood movie or a local flick.

Even in that, I think that this mono-culture that we live in, has enough fragments in it for every person looking for a niche to fit in.

[NecronLord]

Whered you lift that from?

[Azeron]

lift what? which one? Its just me answering a question on the obvious.

As for the others, who probably missed this, MK was being cxritical of the US government with his title, it was meant to be a joke. (An exteremely funny one as that) He is not advocating corssing the street if you see a hispanic, or reporting therm to the police.

[Admiral Piett]

No immigrants ever turned out t obe terrorists. I find his reactions to over reactions. I don't feel the threat was manifrst enough. We are arresting al queada cells every month, and it appears there are a couple of terrorists sniping people in DC, while the government is trying to make it look lile its not arabs by saying they sorta look like hispanics.

I don;t think the threat has risen to that level where it would be neccessary. If they were doing to us what they are doing to the isrealis, I would say sure. For now, increased scrutiny at airports, gun dealerships would be fine.

With a lot of hindsight, yes you can say this.At the time it probably made perfect sense.Since at the time you would have been among the "honest american citizens" campaigning for killing "those yellow bastards" like every other good "Jacksonian patriot" then you are only a disgusting hypocrit.
Besides how many arabs are there in the US now? How many of them are Al
Quaeda members?
And by the way, where do all those Al Quaeda cells you are arresting "every month" come from? I hope that you are not so stupid to believe that everyone is arrested now under the suspect of terrorism is an Al Quaeda member,you would have already erased the whole organization from the earth.

[Sea Skimmer]

No immigrants ever turned out t obe terrorists. I find his reactions to over reactions. I don't feel the threat was manifrst enough. We are arresting al queada cells every month, and it appears there are a couple of terrorists sniping people in DC, while the government is trying to make it look lile its not arabs by saying they sorta look like hispanics.

I don;t think the threat has risen to that level where it would be neccessary. If they were doing to us what they are doing to the isrealis, I would say sure. For now, increased scrutiny at airports, gun dealerships would be fine.

With a lot of hindsight, yes you can say this.At the time it probably made perfect sense.Since at the time you would have been among the "honest american citizens" campaigning for killing "those yellow bastards" like every other good "Jacksonian patriot" then you are only a disgusting hypocrit.
Besides how many arabs are there in the US now? How many of them are Al
Quaeda members?
And by the way, where do all those Al Quaeda cells you are arresting "every month" come from? I hope that you are not so stupid to believe that everyone is arrested now under the suspect of terrorism is an Al Quaeda member,you would have already erased the whole organization from the earth.

So you know how many Al Quaeda members there are? You seem to know that the current number of arrest is much to high, so Please do tell and sight your source

[Admiral Piett]

Culture is who you are as a people today, not a thousand years ago. Granted is has affect, but when you live and interact fairly closelyfor 2000 years, real differences break down, and people stop thinking of germans and austrians as seperate people, and more like europeans.

Granted yes there are differnces, such as the french, but as for differnces between cultures, they are more like local customs, than different cultures. We generally view the world the same way, except with maybe different political orientation, europe os more liberal than american, hence its policies are different, but make no mistake from LA to berlin, how people think has been an evolution of clashing ideas all way back in the days of socrates to Locke and beyond.

With the advent of modern communication and transportation technology, over the past 50 - 60 years we have been melding, coming to a greater understanding of ourselves and our place in the world in realtion to each other.

Compare the culture connection between American and europe, and say Europe and Arabia, or say Europe and China. How big is the difference? its a whooping one. Even after we reformed the japs after WW2, they are still almost a 180 degrees different from US, from philosphy to conceptually understanding of the world, and how we interact with each other.

Enter in the next assunmption, is basically after WW2 American culture has evolved faster, and been more pallateable to people around the world, and especially in europe. In this new age the source of dominance has been NYC and Los Angelos. and by and large aside from the Beetles, culture has been flowing in 1 direction from america to europe. Not to say this is bad, I don;t like hollywood bastardization more than anyone else, and I am more likely to listen Baach than the newest incarnation of the Back Street Boys.

I think that this has led to allot of resentment on the part of europe who for the past 1000 years dominated the generation of culture.

In effect what I am surmizing, is that in america and europe we are basically living in a mono-culutral "zone". Whether thats bad or good. well thats up for the people decide ever time they go buy a new CD or decide if they want to see the newest hollywood movie or a local flick.

Even in that, I think that this mono-culture that we live in, has enough fragments in it for every person looking for a niche to fit in.

This theory works only by cutting a lot of corners.There are a lot of differences between the EU and the US.From a political point of view for example there is an abyss.Mentality is quite different.Of course both are parts of the West,but it is not like the EU is nearly a clone of the US.
And differences of between european countries are still non trivial.

[Admiral Piett]

So you know how many Al Quaeda members there are? You seem to know that the current number of arrest is much to high, so Please do tell and sight your source

The sentence "arresting Al Quaeda cells every month" implies an high number of arrests of confirmed Al Quaeda members that I have not noticed,despite the fact that usually these arrests receive a lot of coverage.Terrorist organizations like Al Quaeda cannot have huge numbers of people deployed in the US.Relatively small numbers are necessary to reduce chances of being detected,the strain on the logistical system and for others factors.Besides catching them is not so easy.
And it is not a mistery that several hundreds of immigrants have been arrested in the last year.Those numbers are far beyond the number of people that a terrorist organization like Al Quaeda could afford to deploy in the US for the reasons listed above.

[Azeron]

we just arrested a cell just a day or so ago of 6 members.

Another one in brooklyn was discovered just last month.

And BTW richard ried, the shoe bomber just admitted to being a terrorist is open court.

Jonny Walker broke down in tears in court and admitted it was wrong to do what he did to those poor afgans with the terrorist alwueada organization

As I pointed out there was no terrorist actions by any japanese american during the entire WW2 campaign. Thats why I find it a bit incredulous to put all Japs on the west coast in jail. Considering, jap-americans lept forward to form thier own units to beat the shit out of thier former country speaks volumes about the integrirty of the Japanese community. The Jap-american units of WW2 volunteered for some of the bloodiest fighting, and suffered some of the highest casualty rates. This is what qualifies them for protection in jacksonian philosophy.

You see the arab/muslim community leaping forward to invade the saudi arabia or Iraq? No they make apologies for thier inhuman actions, and say we are responsible for thier worthless hides.

As an Irish-American, you think that I hold any great allegiance to ireland, or any european country? HELL NO. I would be among the first to volunteer to lay the smackdown on Ireland or any other euro country if they fucked with us. And if Irish Americans were really becoming a problem, I would not object to being confined to a camp with other Irish, in hopes that it would be my part in hopes of helping America pervail in the current conflict.

Thats the contrast in Jacksonian Philosophy. Where FDR didn't discrimate for tendency of the group as a whole, jacksonians value and give them a chancce to prove themselves. Where he didn't even give individuals a chance, Jacksonians look at them in realistic way, and work from there to whats best for the whole as well as the individual.

I advocate doing things out of clear neccessity, not from abject speculation. It is clearly neccessary to subject arabs and muslims to increased scrutiny where failing to do so, could create the capactiyty for great harm to many other Americans. Its realism, plain and simple.

[Admiral Piett]

Walker does not really count,in any sense.You have the shoe bomber plus other seven people.Have those seven been confirmed or are them just seven fundamentalist morons generally pro terrorism but not really members of an Al Quaeda cell deployed abroad?

[Azeron]

The brooklyn cell I beleive had 5 people in it. I think they were supposed to be part of the second wave of attacks but we got'em.

The new cell had 6. they were planning on killing people an'masse.
They forned after 9/11, but who cares, we got'em, and we have to cacth more of them. Till we got them all. we also are working on shutting down thier money sources, ingenously disguised as charities.

Eventually we will nail CAIR on something, and shut them down too. I want to see that big fat one thrown into a cell with a white christian supremecist. "Squeal like a pig muhamedden!!"

[Admiral Piett]

we just arrested a cell just a day or so ago of 6 members.

Another one in brooklyn was discovered just last month.

And BTW richard ried, the shoe bomber just admitted to being a terrorist is open court.

Jonny Walker broke down in tears in court and admitted it was wrong to do what he did to those poor afgans with the terrorist alwueada organization

As I pointed out there was no terrorist actions by any japanese american during the entire WW2 campaign. Thats why I find it a bit incredulous to put all Japs on the west coast in jail. Considering, jap-americans lept forward to form thier own units to beat the shit out of thier former country speaks volumes about the integrirty of the Japanese community. The Jap-american units of WW2 volunteered for some of the bloodiest fighting, and suffered some of the highest casualty rates. This is what qualifies them for protection in jacksonian philosophy.

You see the arab/muslim community leaping forward to invade the saudi arabia or Iraq? No they make apologies for thier inhuman actions, and say we are responsible for thier worthless hides.

As an Irish-American, you think that I hold any great allegiance to ireland, or any european country? HELL NO. I would be among the first to volunteer to lay the smackdown on Ireland or any other euro country if they fucked with us. And if Irish Americans were really becoming a problem, I would not object to being confined to a camp with other Irish, in hopes that it would be my part in hopes of helping America pervail in the current conflict.

Thats the contrast in Jacksonian Philosophy. Where FDR didn't discrimate for tendency of the group as a whole, jacksonians value and give them a chancce to prove themselves. Where he didn't even give individuals a chance, Jacksonians look at them in realistic way, and work from there to whats best for the whole as well as the individual.

I advocate doing things out of clear neccessity, not from abject speculation. It is clearly neccessary to subject arabs and muslims to increased scrutiny where failing to do so, could create the capactiyty for great harm to many other Americans. Its realism, plain and simple.

Could you have been sure at the time that there were not spies/saboteurs hidden among them? Of course for me it was a bad thing,but since you are campaigning for racial profiling the thing is self contradictory.What chances have Arabs/Muslims had to "prove themselves"?As far as I know there is quite a lot of them in the US armed forces.

[Admiral Piett]

The new cell had 6. they were planning on killing people an'masse.

Mmm,seems quite a vague proposition to me.For example a few months ago we arrested three muslim that apparently were preparing a terrorist strike in a church.At first glance for the circumstances it seemed a very plausible charge but it turned out later that they were just three idiots.

[Azeron]

well I don;t mind them spending the rest of there time during this war at xray, in case even if they are idiots, they get any more birght ideas.

[Admiral Piett]

So I guess that if I lived in the US and some moron from my origin country blown up a skycraper I would have to drop immediately everything,join the military and hope for a suicide mission against my former country,so that some armchair "patriot" could finally conclude that my community is OK.
Any other course of action according to you would result in me being put in a concentration camp or worse.Great,really.
Do not get me wrong, loyalty is a serious problem,but your approach makes me wonder why there are still so few people who cheer for Bin Laden
terrorist strikes.

[Admiral Piett]

well I don;t mind them spending the rest of there time during this war at xray, in case even if they are idiots, they get any more birght ideas.

And when will the "liberals traitors(read critics of the USA beloved leader)" start to join them?

[Azeron]

for your argument to make any sense, you would have to demonstrate that they are not a demostrable threat. that in fact that increased scrutiny at airpirts and some other common sense areas is not neccessary since the threat does not exist. I am not proposing anything that I would not be willing to go through myself if it were people of my ethnic group pulling this shit off.

90% of your argument is not an argument, but clear cut invective. its not based on reason, or preception of the dangers in real life but a utopianist point of view if the world were perfect. Well America, a great as it is, is not perfect, its people want to live, and it will do what it sees fit to defend itself.

If every citizen that has availied themselves of the privillages to live in this country and enjoy its protections, they should also avail themselves of another great protection we absolutely gaurentee in this nation should you be disgruntled with the occassional war we must fight -- the right to leave.

I am not a post modernist. To live in a country and take in the fruits of its protection, obligates you to its protection. Maybe you think its a facist POV, but quite frankly IT WORKS!! Picking a country is like marriage, you take the good with the bad, and hopefully you come out on top with enough effort.

[Azeron]

So I guess that if I lived in the US and some moron from my origin country blown up a skycraper I would have to drop immediately everything,join the military and hope for a suicide mission against my former country,so that some armchair "patriot" could finally conclude that my community is OK.

Decry it all you like, but thats how traditionally new minority groups gain thier acceptence in America. Germans, Irish, Japs, Africans, etc.... all went through the same thing. Considering the US is a mongrel nation, I think its a pretty equitable system, as opposed to the homoginzed european way.

[Next of Kin]

Azeron wrote:

we just arrested a cell just a day or so ago of 6 members.

Another one in brooklyn was discovered just last month.

And BTW richard ried, the shoe bomber just admitted to being a terrorist is open court.

Jonny Walker broke down in tears in court and admitted it was wrong to do what he did to those poor afgans with the terrorist alwueada organization

At most you have 20 Al-qaeda suspects taken out of the loop. I'll be generous and assume that the cell in brooklyn had 12 people to add to your 6 and 2 to give us a nice even number. I think you're still exagerting your claim that U.S. is rounding up cells all over the place; they're just beginning to scratch the surface of this organization.

[Admiral Piett]

for your argument to make any sense, you would have to demonstrate that they are not a demostrable threat. that in fact that increased scrutiny at airpirts and some other common sense areas is not neccessary since the threat does not exist. I am not proposing anything that I would not be willing to go through myself if it were people of my ethnic group pulling this shit off.

90% of your argument is not an argument, but clear cut invective. its not based on reason, or preception of the dangers in real life but a utopianist point of view if the world were perfect. Well America, a great as it is, is not perfect, its people want to live, and it will do what it sees fit to defend itself.

If every citizen that has availied themselves of the privillages to live in this country and enjoy its protections, they should also avail themselves of another great protection we absolutely gaurentee in this nation should you be disgruntled with the occassional war we must fight -- the right to leave.

I am not a post modernist. To live in a country and take in the fruits of its protection, obligates you to its protection. Maybe you think its a facist POV, but quite frankly IT WORKS!! Picking a country is like marriage, you take the good with the bad, and hopefully you come out on top with enough effort.

Increased scrutiny is common sense.Detention without trials of "suspects"(muslims/arabs in general) ,declaring a traitor everyone who disagree with your "beloved leader" and so on are not.The historical fascism was better of your vision of how america should work.At least you got a trial before being sent to some stupid island for the rest of your life.I see that in your america "trial" is a luxury to be reserved only to the good citizens covering themselves with the american flag.

[Admiral Piett]

Decry it all you like, but thats how traditionally new minority groups gain thier acceptence in America. Germans, Irish, Japs, Africans, etc.... all went through the same thing. Considering the US is a mongrel nation, I think its a pretty equitable system, as opposed to the homoginzed european way.

Yes, for the benefit of some ultraright wing "patriot" who will stay at home in his armchair cheering his "beloved leader" and daydreaming about some impossible and outdated empire to be built to satisfy his overbloated ego.
By the way,I would like to see you on the wrong side of a lynching mob (essentially what true america is about,if I have understood your thesis about the Jacksonian tradition).

[Darth Wong]

As I pointed out there was no terrorist actions by any japanese american during the entire WW2 campaign. Thats why I find it a bit incredulous to put all Japs on the west coast in jail. Considering, jap-americans lept forward to form thier own units to beat the shit out of thier former country speaks volumes about the integrirty of the Japanese community. The Jap-american units of WW2 volunteered for some of the bloodiest fighting, and suffered some of the highest casualty rates. This is what qualifies them for protection in jacksonian philosophy.

Fat lot of good it did them; they were still interned, their possessions were confiscated, and it took half a century for the American government to admit it was wrong.

You see the arab/muslim community leaping forward to invade the saudi arabia or Iraq? No they make apologies for thier inhuman actions, and say we are responsible for thier worthless hides.

Muslims are not necessarily Arabs. Arabs are not necessarily Muslims. Pakistani Muslims are Indians, not Arabs. Filipino Muslims are Asians, not Arabs. For that matter, Afghans aren't Arabs either. You seem to be lumping all dark-skinned people into a single homogeneous group; can you really be that ignorant?

As an Irish-American, you think that I hold any great allegiance to ireland, or any european country? HELL NO. I would be among the first to volunteer to lay the smackdown on Ireland or any other euro country if they fucked with us. And if Irish Americans were really becoming a problem, I would not object to being confined to a camp with other Irish, in hopes that it would be my part in hopes of helping America pervail in the current conflict.

Frankly, I seriously doubt that. You may spout that bullshit now, but if the police actually came to take you to a concentration camp, you would be the first to scream that it's completely unfair.

I advocate doing things out of clear neccessity, not from abject speculation. It is clearly neccessary to subject arabs and muslims to increased scrutiny where failing to do so, could create the capactiyty for great harm to many other Americans. Its realism, plain and simple.

Many of the 9/11 hijackers did not seem like devout Muslims on the surface. It was widely reported that some of them shaved their beards, partied at local nightclubs, etc. Your method of "profiling" would not have identified these men. Think about that.

[Cal Wright]

Shep beat me to it. A friend actually told me that entire questionaire once. I hate to think that I might be prejuduice towards a race, however in light of what happens in the world, I'd rather show a streak of bigotry than ignore practicality. If suddenly, white southern males began shooting up planes, busses or abortion clinics for reason A, or reason B and I had to be profiled and searched every now and then, would I mind? NOOOO. Why? Because it would accomplish a number of things. First, my innocence. Second my honour. Third, that I am not one of the pyschos. Lastly maybe someone would look the other way if a gave one of those extremists a slobber knocking. Face it folks, what's the point of looking for your keys that you know are on the kitchen table if your just going to look in the freezer and then the oven?

[Darth Wong]

If suddenly, white southern males began shooting up planes, busses or abortion clinics for reason A, or reason B and I had to be profiled and searched every now and then, would I mind? NOOOO. Why? Because it would accomplish a number of things. First, my innocence. Second my honour. Third, that I am not one of the pyschos.

My, how naive you are. You assume that a process whereby you have partial presumed-guilt due strictly to your skin colour will exonerate you simply because there is no clear evidence? Police investigators are lazy; once they have a suepect, they can and HAVE fabricate eyewitness testimony in order to secure a conviction. Most of the men in prison who were exonerated on DNA evidence were put there on eyewitness testimony; the majority of such cases are black men.

You think that such a scheme would stop at mere questioning; that is ridiculous. Racial profiling is a process whereby someone becomes a SUSPECT more easily due to his race. Once you are a suspect, regardless of what the legal constitution might say, the police treat you as guilty until proven innocent. That's the way they work, and that's why people object to it. If they worked the way they're supposed to work in an ideal world, I would see your point. However, that's NOT how they do their jobs.