The Last Vertically Challenged White Samurai

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-12-06 03:54pm

PrinceofLowLight wrote:Overall, I'd say it was worth my $10.

I think that's hilarious. They spend all that time glorifying the Shogunate and Samurai values, but then they get into battle, and--oops! It turns out that those guys are actually just fucking idiots.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-06 04:12pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
I think that's hilarious. They spend all that time glorifying the Shogunate and Samurai values, but then they get into battle, and--oops! It turns out that those guys are actually just fucking idiots.

The real rebels made extensive use of captured rifles and artillery, I gather that didn't happen in the movie?

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-12-06 04:21pm

PrinceofLowLight wrote: Samurai being blown apart by canister fire from Civil War artillery.

No canister shells were fired, just conventional shells were used, unless I'm mistaken.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-12-06 04:23pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
The real rebels made extensive use of captured rifles and artillery, I gather that didn't happen in the movie?

Nope the movie rebels were all against using slug-throwers.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2003-12-06 05:30pm

Superman wrote:This movie was a three hour pile of unko. Absoloutely nothing original here. Oh sure, it was set in Japan; but take away the kimonos and samurai and you have 'Braveheart' with a hint of 'The Patriot' and 'Dances With Wolves.'

Is there a freggin shortage of editors in Hollywood right now? This was THREE FUCKING HOURS! Three of hours of utterly predictable shit! Horrible. Fuck Tom Cruise and this movie.

Nah, Fuck You.

I'd like to compliment you on using the most original lens ever developed to critique a movie. I have never, ever, ever seen anyone critisize a movie using this point of view. Here's a cookie.

You expect Hollywood to come up with something original? Get a clue jackass, the've been making movies for decades. The fact that you managed to link some themes of this movie to three movies that *gasp* all have to deal with one form of rebellion or another is really astounding to me.

"Well if you take away the paint, kilts and claymores, Braveheart is just Spartacus, so fuck that!"

"If you take away the Indians, tepees and cavalry, then Dances with wolves is just Lawrence of Arabia so fuck that!"

"Well if you take away the contientals, redcoats and the Constitution, then The Patriot is just Braveheart, so fuck that!"

Though if you really had an intellect, you would have compared the film to "Birth of a Nation", but nevermind.

Utterly predicatable? Yeah, I'm sure that you saw the whole thing with Cruise being sent to stay with the family of Katsumoto's brother whom he had killed and being adopted by his family comming from the moment he walked in the village...

As an aside, if you want a historically accurate Samurai flick then rent Heaven and Earth. Takeda Shingen vs. Uesugi Kenshin, battle of 5th Kawanakajima, although they do give the impression that Kenshin wins, though he actually lost about 82% of his army.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-06 05:32pm

Rubberanvil wrote:No canister shells were fired, just conventional shells were used, unless I'm mistaken.

Fool! Canister isn't a shell, its a form of shot.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-12-06 07:45pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Rubberanvil wrote:No canister shells were fired, just conventional shells were used, unless I'm mistaken.
Fool! Canister isn't a shell, its a form of shot.

Kick me in the nads forgetting the proper term for Canister.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-07 02:54am

Copious Blood aside(which was pretty decent)...the movie dragged.

Though it doesn't even begin to touch the garbage we call Pearl Harbor...so it's not wrenchingly bad...it's more mind numbing with wanking to the Samurai.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-07 03:02am

Enjoyable film. Horrible history. Japanese history does not work when painted with solely black and white brushes. The whole "Backwards samurai good, modernists bad (either that or American stooges

)" business just isn't as interesting as the real history.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-12-07 03:35am

Falken, fuck you too you little shit. Fucking little turd takes it personally when I insult something he likes... Hey dipshit, get a clue. Most other people here didn't find it to be very good either...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-12-07 04:08am

First of all, I never said I wanted a realistic Samurai movie. I didn't shit on this turd because of the fact that it was blatantly fake (even though the 'last samurai' was a white guy who found his 'spirituality').

Throughout this entire movie, Cruise was in over his head. Ken Watanabe, as well as almost every other actor in this movie, grossly overshadowed him. How about the laughable scene when he yelled for Sake? Or the scene when he told the untrained Japanese soldier to fire and kill him? Yeah, three hours of Cruise showboating was great. Of course all actors in Hollywood do this, but the difference is that others CAN do it. Russel Crow or Mel Gibson are good at what they do. Cruise was trying to fill shoes that were way to big for him.

And then there was the dialogue. Every fucking word that came out of every character's mouth was a stinking sermon. By the end of the movie, it got so rediculously reduntant that we really didn't give a rat's ass how it would end. Especially after three hours of it...

Yeah, we could pole fun at the obvious stupid shit (Cruise heckling the Emperor, etc.) but that would be too easy, and I think many other people here have done a pretty good job.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-12-07 03:34pm

About the glorification of the shogunate:

http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=58092

Look a bit down to see the history behind the rebellion. From what I can gather, the samurais had every right to rebel. The movie wasn't about glorifying the shogunate or anything. Though they may have executed it to make it seem otherwise.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-07 03:41pm

Of course it wasn't glorifying the shogunate, given the fact that it was stated that the Samurai in question helped DEFEAT the shogunate.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-07 04:58pm

In any case, if you want to see a great historical film, go check out Master & Commander if you haven't already done so. That seems to the best film currently at the theatre. The Last Samurai is good for a matinee, but not if you haven't first seen the superior film.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2003-12-07 05:01pm

Superman wrote:Falken, fuck you too you little shit. Fucking little turd takes it personally when I insult something he likes... Hey dipshit, get a clue. Most other people here didn't find it to be very good either...

Yeah, I liked the movie, I flamed you for it. You expecting me to pat you on the back and say what a smart boy you are?

And the fact you used the oldest, most oft repeated lens in the fuckin book didn't help either.

An appeal to the majority? Oh what am I to do...

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2003-12-07 05:04pm

Personally I thought the movie was fucking awsome. Great emotion, awsome fighting, and a kickass climactic battle. I havent gone to see a movie in months and going to see this was a great comeback going to the theatre. Well worth my $7 bucks.

The only real problem I had was for some bad cuts between events. The timing of the cuts was ok, but they used some real ugly quick blur effect a few times that I just found irritating and it would have looked better if they had just used an actual drawn out dissolve to make it flow nicely and not look so jarring. Also the scene when Katsumoto's son sacrifices himself and takes forever to get shot was way overly glorified, it should have been shorter and he should have gotten shot much sooner. Other than that, I absolutely loved the movie.

Historical inaccuracy I can forgive because I went in knowing LONG ahead of time it wasnt meant to be a historically accurate depiction of specific events or characters. Its was the character drama and the battle sequences that I went looking for and that is where the movie delivers and was meant to deliver IMO.

EDIT: Just checked Rottentomatoes.com. It has a fresh rating and the general consensus after all the reviews is that it is a "satisfying epic" and that is exactly the way I feel about it. Not the best thing since sliced bread, but certainly a worthwhile drama/action flick.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2003-12-07 05:16pm

First of all, I never said I wanted a realistic Samurai movie. I didn't shit on this turd because of the fact that it was blatantly fake (even though the 'last samurai' was a white guy who found his 'spirituality').

No shit dumbass, does the phrase "as an aside..." mean anything to you?

Throughout this entire movie, Cruise was in over his head. Ken Watanabe, as well as almost every other actor in this movie, grossly overshadowed him. How about the laughable scene when he yelled for Sake? Or the scene when he told the untrained Japanese soldier to fire and kill him? Yeah, three hours of Cruise showboating was great. Of course all actors in Hollywood do this, but the difference is that others CAN do it. Russel Crow or Mel Gibson are good at what they do. Cruise was trying to fill shoes that were way to big for him.

Maybe I do owe you a cookie after all. Ken Watanabe was all over Tommy boy in the acting department, though as far as sissy boy character actors go, Tom didn't do that bad.

As for the scene with the recruit, well he could sit there an argue with his boss that they aren't ready, and we all love petty dialogue with minor characters...

And then there was the dialogue. Every fucking word that came out of every character's mouth was a stinking sermon. By the end of the movie, it got so rediculously reduntant that we really didn't give a rat's ass how it would end. Especially after three hours of it...

"You're mad. It's because they make you wear a dress isn't it?"
"So you see Bob...you don't mind if I call you Bob right?"

All I knew is that it would end with more crazy fucking katana action. That was good enough for me.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-12-07 06:08pm

PrinceofLowLight wrote:There was much stupid in this movie. The aforementioned romanticization of the oppressive Shogunate along with glorifying anti-progress attitudes that only serve to inflate nobles' egoes. I find it funny that Katsumodo's comment about how all his warriors would be glad to die if that was their destiny and that he expected everyone else to feel that way was just accepted, but whatever.

How did it romanticize the Shogunate? Was Katsumodo part of the Shogun's family? I mean, I get the general support of the Shogunate's cultural opinions, but I didn't see any references to the Shogunate in of itself.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2003-12-07 06:09pm

If oprah says its the best movie ever I'm gonna assume its utter crap.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-07 06:27pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
PrinceofLowLight wrote:There was much stupid in this movie. The aforementioned romanticization of the oppressive Shogunate along with glorifying anti-progress attitudes that only serve to inflate nobles' egoes. I find it funny that Katsumodo's comment about how all his warriors would be glad to die if that was their destiny and that he expected everyone else to feel that way was just accepted, but whatever.
How did it romanticize the Shogunate? Was Katsumodo part of the Shogun's family? I mean, I get the general support of the Shogunate's cultural opinions, but I didn't see any references to the Shogunate in of itself.

It didn't, Katsumoto fought against the Tokugawa regime for the Emperor, but eventually decided he didn't like the new government.

Lt. Dan · Post by **Lt. Dan** » 2003-12-09 12:40am

I liked it. The fact that ever other word wasn't "fuck" or "bitch" or any other curse. The love story was there but it didn't take over like in every movie in the past five years. There was no extream violence, it had just the right amount for my taste. The fact that Tom lives kinda buged me(passing throught a hail of bullets with minimul damage) but I could see why they did that...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 12:42am

Paramount expects it to bomb, based on the opening returns...

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2003-12-09 06:58am

Ken Watanabe? Isn't he the guy that played Long Duck Dong in Sixteen Candles? Is Molly Ringwald in it too?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-09 07:55am

They had this uh 'mini-special' on Foxtel (Aussie cable) between programming. I only caught a few seconds of it, which basically had Tom Cruise describe Bushido as his own personal philosophy, and the idiot director describing film-making as a "samurai" task. Needless to say the promotional material has made me NOT want to see this film.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-12-09 08:22am

Personally, I think it sounds OK. I just hope that it doesen't drag in some bits like "GLADIATOR" or get wayyyy too cheesy like braveheart.

P.S. "Nice try for a white guy", anyone?

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The Last Vertically Challenged White Samurai

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