Giving money to the poor.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-12-28 03:09pm

Down here in Ft. Lauderdale, we have a nice place for homeless people. Now, here's a thought: Go to the homeless shelter (its really nice, nicer than my HOUSE) get showered and cleaned, get some clothes, then go get a job at McDonalds. It's not much, but it's more than nothing. From there, you can buy brand new clothes at KMart or something. Now all you need to do is find some housing of your own.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2003-12-28 03:11pm

YMCA all the way baby.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-12-28 04:07pm

Stofsk wrote:
verilon wrote:-nods- The US system is for shit, I am sure of that. I can't get Food Stamps for another two years (in April) because I haven't been able to find a job (on the record, as in pay stubs and W-2s) and I have not collected unemployment or social security (not that either of those are exactly easy to get, mind you).
What are Food Stamps, and how do you, well... survive? (you said you don't have a job and don't collect social security, so I'm just wondering. I don't mean to pry. )

I can answer part of that, Stofsk.

Food Stamps are US government issued coupons, exchangable *only* for food. If a person is living under proverty level, they are usually eligible for them, with the amount based on your income and 'resources available'. If you have a car, that's considered a 'resource', and it drops the amount you might receive... which is stupid since you need the cash even more for insurance and gas on a car, but that's another rant.

Families with children under age 10 are given preference, of course, and pregnant women or those with children under age 6 are also given WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) bonuses, which can be used on diapers, bottles, and other baby/toddler necessary items.

As for normal Welfare... in my state it has been changed to where a person is eligible for only 2-5 years, and if they have not found a job by that point, too bad. They are removed from Welfare and cannot re-apply, unless there is a proven medical problem to prevent them from obtaining work.
Social Security benefits are paid out only to medically disabled, and they must be Doctor Certified to be 80% disabled or worse. Even then if the doctor forgets to dot an 'i' on the paperwork, the person can lose all benefits for months. (a friend was in that position)

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2003-12-28 04:19pm

When in New York City, amidst the hustle and bustle, I don't notice panhandlers usually, so I guess I ignore them. In less crowded areas or when they get in my face and ask me directly for money I just tell them "sorry, I can't help you."

Some of them are pretty obnoxious about soliciting money though, like when they stick their head in your car, or block your path.

The only exception to me giving them free cash is when I am out on a date, then I give the panhandler a couple of bucks. Cheaply bought "nice-guy points" in my opinion.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2003-12-28 04:21pm

Hey, some of us need all we can get.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-12-28 04:36pm

I would like to back up Verilon's statement that you can't just go out and get a job at McDonalds. The only people McDonalds will hire are teens and Mexicans. And in most places in my region teens no longer get get hired. And even if you get hired, you will not make enough to survive.

I dont have any solutions, thats the whole problem. If welfare benefits are high enough for someone to survive on, then what is the incentive to leave welfare. If they are too low, then you cant get back on your feet.

What it really comes down to is having a close circle of family and friends. They are the reason I did not default on my mortgage and end up a renter for life, or worse on the street.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-12-28 04:45pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:The only exception to me giving them free cash is when I am out on a date, then I give the panhandler a couple of bucks. Cheaply bought "nice-guy points" in my opinion.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-12-28 04:46pm

A funny story about McCrap a few years back the employees of a McD franchise had successfully joined a union,and soon after the owner was going out of business.

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2003-12-28 05:09pm

Dalton wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:The only exception to me giving them free cash is when I am out on a date, then I give the panhandler a couple of bucks. Cheaply bought "nice-guy points" in my opinion.

The desperately poor are being put to good use, they're getting a couple bucks for a service they rendered, a potentially uncomfortable situation is avoided, the girl feels a little more endeared to me for being nice, and if the girl's a little happier I'm a little happier so I think in those cases, I'll compromise my principles and give free cash because I'm getting something in return. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-12-28 05:11pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:The desperately poor are being put to good use, they're getting a couple bucks for a service they rendered, a potentially uncomfortable situation is avoided, the girl feels a little more endeared to me for being nice, and if the girl's a little happier I'm a little happier so I think in those cases, I'll compromise my principles and give free cash because I'm getting something in return. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

Maybe, perhaps, to you; but if you're only willing to be generous just to get into some girl's pants, then yes...I find it wrong.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-12-28 05:14pm

If they're a street musician or something, I might give them some money, but otherwise, I have reaspn to believe that they're people with homes freeloading or are going to spend the money on crack.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-12-28 07:06pm

Stofsk wrote:
verilon wrote:-nods- The US system is for shit, I am sure of that. I can't get Food Stamps for another two years (in April) because I haven't been able to find a job (on the record, as in pay stubs and W-2s) and I have not collected unemployment or social security (not that either of those are exactly easy to get, mind you).
What are Food Stamps, and how do you, well... survive? (you said you don't have a job and don't collect social security, so I'm just wondering. I don't mean to pry. )

Well, Tev answered part of it.

The whole Food Stamps deal is large and complex.

There is this thing called ABAWD (Able-Bodies Adults Without Dependants) where you get 3 months of Food Stamps if you qualify (there being a variety of factors that determine, which varies from state to state). In this three-month period you are required to either collect unemployment or get a job.

When you actually get a job, you have to work 30-35 hours a week (in NM a job like that kind of screws over your Food Stamp eligibility). Different things determine eligibility, including how much money you make per month, whether you pay rent, have a car, have objects of value, etc., etc. And whether you collect SS is an issue in NM that really fucks it all up.

Maximum amount in NM is $149 a month, which you can only use on basically anything that's not prepared for you (no hot foods, no deli food, etc.).

If you don't get unemployment/a job in those three months you're cut off unless you have an income within the next 36 months after that (which will be April 2006 for me).

As for housing, there is transitional living, and shelters, but both have a cap, and shelters can actually be very difficult to get into, especially if you need to be out and about at night.

~ver

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-12-28 07:08pm

Oh and on the issue of SS, it usually takes several months to get an answer.. which is usually a denial.

~ver

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-12-28 07:21pm

Well, there'S the occasional homeless or beaggar on the streets. But as noted, most are just our for frugs, so I don't give them any.
And Germany has an extensive welfare system, as well. So if they were willing to, they'd get welfare. And most people do quite a good living on welfare...

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-12-28 07:25pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote: They are the reason I did not default on my mortgage and end up a renter for life, or worse on the street.

WHat is bad about living in a rented home?
The majority here does it...

AnimeJet · Post by **AnimeJet** » 2003-12-28 07:39pm

Arg, you go downtown in San Francisco.. there's like a homeless person every 2 blocks, if i gave each of them $1, i would be broke before i got to the store i was going to. Most people just walk past them, including me.

Damaramu · Post by **Damaramu** » 2003-12-28 07:41pm

A girl my girlfriend knows felt sorry for a homeless lady who begged her for money in front of a grocery store. She had the sob story of needing "food for her kids", though the kids were nowhere in sight.

The girl gave the homeless lady some money and carried on with her grocery shopping. After she was finished, she proceeded to place her groceries in the trunk of her car.

Welll.....guess who she sees walking out of the grocery store with a 40oz beer in her hand? Yup, the homeless lady with the starving kids.

The girl flips and enters a state of rage! She runs up to the beggar and slaps the beer out of her hand and proceeds to lay the smackdown on her.

Needless to say, I never give those fuckers money.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-12-28 07:45pm

Well if they don't give me anything I smear this grease-impregnated towel all over their windshield. Share the wealth, dammit!

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-12-28 08:29pm

Dahak wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote: They are the reason I did not default on my mortgage and end up a renter for life, or worse on the street.
WHat is bad about living in a rented home?
The majority here does it...

Nothing is wrong with renting if you dont want to obligation of a home. In retrospect I should have moved out of my dad's house, rented for a year or two to get used to being on my own. Then bought after the economy recovered somewhat.

However, home ownership brings some possibilities you cant have as a renter. Equity being the most important. If you rent all your life and dont discipline yourself you are fucked at retirement time. Also, little things like being able to paint the walls anytime you want, or put in an apple tree in the backyard.

I did not mean to equate being a renter for life as being as bad at living on the street. Owning my own place has been a long time goal, losing that place would be a significant emotional/financial impact.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-12-28 08:29pm

Occasionally I'll put a buck or two in a street musician's hat or whatnot. Once I was walking into the supermarket, and there was some homeless dude outside with a sign asking for food money. I went inside, bought all my stuff, then bought a bunch of bannanas and gave them to him. It was only $2 extra, and it wasn't like he could complain.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-12-28 08:33pm

AnimeJet wrote:Arg, you go downtown in San Francisco.. there's like a homeless person every 2 blocks, if i gave each of them $1, i would be broke before i got to the store i was going to. Most people just walk past them, including me.

That is one reason I very seldom visit the city. It is so annoying to step over homeless people on the sidewalk. I know that sounds cold hearted, but business is business. Why commute to the city to shop if I can buy the same item for less in the Southbay and not be hassled by panhandlers. The "ambiance" of the city is not enough.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-12-28 09:28pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Homeless in San Francisco are a big problem. I stopped giving money a long time ago. Some are truely down on their luck and need help. But it is impossible to tell them apart from those who have mental problems, drug problems, alcohol problems, etc. As for being able to get a job, even if they could most dont have the skills needed to get a job that would provide enough money for shelter.

There is a segment of the homeless here that like the lifestyle as hard as that is to believe. They dont take advantage of the shelters because then they would have to follow rules. Other than San Francisco you dont see too many homeless. Oakland and San Jose (this regions other 2 big cities) dont have as many.

Oakland and especially Berkley curred me of my willingness to hand out "spare change". Ocassionally there were a few real homeless people (calused hands, matted hair etc...). It was so bad in Oakland that the Burger King near the main Bart Station had to have a security gaurd to keep people from coming in and asking for money while you're eating. I had this guy come up and sit down across from me in the booth. He wanted to shake my hand (hey, I'm using that clean hand to eat you moron) and ask me for money.

As for Berkley, I was there during the grunge craze so you couldn't tell the difference between the homeless people, the junior high, high school, or college students.

Being a semi-nerdy looking white guy with short (Navy) hair I was a prime target for moochers. There were definately people there who must have been making a pretty good living by panhandling. There was one married couple that I could think of and the woman was frickin' faaaaaaaaat.

In Oakland and maybe the rest of the Bay Area they have a paper that they sell called the Street Sheet to help finance programs to help real homeless people. One of the sellers even told me not to give money to the beggers because if I really wanted to help them I should buy a paper or donate it to some place like the salvation army.

We have a bit of a homeless problem here in Tucson IMO. Tucson has a lot of shelters and organizations to help homeless people plus our weather is prettty decent so homeless people are attracted to the place. Slowly the city has become a bit more hostile towards homeless people who just like the lifestyle. Several years ago we bulldozed and burned a shanty type town that had been at the base of "A" Mountain for years. Also, panhandling laws are being enforced more since they were driving away customers of legitamit business, and in the city it is now illegal to sell things or loiter in the medians between lanes at intersections. It's still allowed in the county but the newspaper sellers have to wear reflective vests. You don't generally see the homeless guy with his dog and a cardboard sign anymore. Those types of people have moved to mooching in front of stores.

There are still hard core leftists that complained about the bulldozing and the panhandling laws etc... but the noise they make gets less and less noticable as more and more people get sick of people hitting them up for money at every turn.

Incidently, the last time I gave someone any money he was looking for gas money since his car had run out.

I was feeling stupidly charitable so I gave him a buck after I came out of the store. They guy had the nerve to whine about it only being a buck because he had some huge gas guzzling boat of a car.

The most obnoxious thing I've encountered the last couple years or so is people htting me up for a ride. I've had two people I didn't even know asking me to give them a ride some place.

One guy was somewhat scruffy looking and hit me up for the ride outside of a convienece store when I was on my way to work (9:30PM). The other guy was outside Blockbuster and he'd supposedly taken the bus from Phoenix to come down to some pastor's house and didn't have enough bus fair to get the rest of the way there.

That guy talked me out of the change in my ashtray (he actually seemed pretty nice and not too much like a con-man although he probably was).

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-12-28 09:33pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote: Nothing is wrong with renting if you dont want to obligation of a home. In retrospect I should have moved out of my dad's house, rented for a year or two to get used to being on my own. Then bought after the economy recovered somewhat.

However, home ownership brings some possibilities you cant have as a renter. Equity being the most important. If you rent all your life and dont discipline yourself you are fucked at retirement time. Also, little things like being able to paint the walls anytime you want, or put in an apple tree in the backyard.

I did not mean to equate being a renter for life as being as bad at living on the street. Owning my own place has been a long time goal, losing that place would be a significant emotional/financial impact.

Because of the equity in the long run owning is cheaper than renting.

In my case my mortage, including home owners insurance, is cheaper than what most people I know pay in rent. It's one of the drawbacks of living in a college town where most of the affordable housing gets bought up quickly so it can be rented out to students at high rates.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-12-28 09:42pm

LadyTevar wrote: Food Stamps are US government issued coupons, exchangable *only* for food.

Legally they are only exchagable for food (actually aren't there stamps available for disposable diapers and other non-food necessities too?) but some people will sell them for cash and some crooked business will exchange them for cash (below value of course). Not a good idea to get caught defrauding the government like that though.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-12-28 09:46pm

Dalton wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:The only exception to me giving them free cash is when I am out on a date, then I give the panhandler a couple of bucks. Cheaply bought "nice-guy points" in my opinion.

I was kind of thinking the same.

What if your date thinks you are a sucker or a bonehead for giving (throwing ) money away? She might even think you are **

** only doing it to impress her.

Hopefully you won't have a date that gets pissed because you could have spent the money on her.