Is Raoul Duke, Jr an idiotic, illogical moron?

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

In my own defense (as if that were possible), I did revise and clarify the above argument, to wit:

BTW, here's another gem from self-proclaimed genius Visionrazor:

I'm also impressed with the way you completely ignored the tactic of assaulting strategic targets aboard a threat vessel using TR16 rifles from a captured escape pod.

Yep, he seriously argued that Fed ships could launch snipers aboard captured Imperial escape pods as a battle tactic! This clown is a laugh riot.

Nope, I seriously argued that the Feds could arm their escape pods with TR16s, thereby enabling anyone the Imperials attempted to capture to eliminate targets of opportunity aboard Imperial boarding craft or any capship unwise enough to tractor them inside its shields. But that's neither here nor there.

But no one is quoting that one.

[Darth Wong]

In my own defense (as if that were possible), I did revise and clarify the above argument, to wit:
...
Nope, I seriously argued that the Feds could arm their escape pods with TR16s, thereby enabling anyone the Imperials attempted to capture to eliminate targets of opportunity aboard Imperial boarding craft or any capship unwise enough to tractor them inside its shields. But that's neither here nor there.

Your revised version is still stupid. If the Imps blow up your escape pod, they're not going to tractor you inside their shields first. And if they plan to capture you, you will only ensure an excruciating death for yourself if you shoot officers in the hangar bay as they pull you in.

{EDIT: it's also a violation of the normal accepted rules of conduct in war; the act of tractoring your escape pod in rather than blowing it up should not be rewarded by trying to kill the first officer you see; did it ever occur to you that any occupants of escape pods after your oh-so-clever little trick would curse your name because it would ensure that Imperial ships would blow up escape pods as SOP, and with good reason?}

[Master of Ossus]

Well, it's probably not logical, and there may be evidence against it, but...

When you have large attack groups, a lack of distance between individual targets in those attack groups can lead to targets being hit by debris by other targets, and shots that would ordinarily miss may strike targets by sheer chance.

Example: large group of TIEs -- one gets taken out, another is too close and collides with it. Thus 2 TIEs taken out with an attack that otherwise would only have coster one fighter and one pilot.

I don't know, maybe it's intuitive thinking or maybe it's just stupid.

You assume that the distance between ships will have to decrease with greater numbers. In fact, such a fleet will have two better options:

1. Spread out and encircle the enemy, firing on their "flanks" (or, in space, around them and above them, etc.), or to have deeper lines. The concentration of ships does not necessarily go up with the numbers, if commanders are intelligent and spacing is actually a problem because there are so many ships.

2. Split forces and attack multiple areas, forcing your enemy to either sacrifice one area or to defend both places with weakened forces.

[Kuja]

He is a dumbass, for ex. he thinks that his VI title makes him a member of a GROUP of dissidents!

[Stormbringer]

{EDIT: it's also a violation of the normal accepted rules of conduct in war; the act of tractoring your escape pod in rather than blowing it up should not be rewarded by trying to kill the first officer you see; did it ever occur to you that any occupants of escape pods after your oh-so-clever little trick would curse your name because it would ensure that Imperial ships would blow up escape pods as SOP, and with good reason?}

Of course it could be turned into great Federation propoganda. "Look at those bastards, killing our wounded and helpless", just don't tell them about the sniper rifles.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

In my own defense (as if that were possible), I did revise and clarify the above argument, to wit:
...
Nope, I seriously argued that the Feds could arm their escape pods with TR16s, thereby enabling anyone the Imperials attempted to capture to eliminate targets of opportunity aboard Imperial boarding craft or any capship unwise enough to tractor them inside its shields. But that's neither here nor there.

Your revised version is still stupid. If the Imps blow up your escape pod, they're not going to tractor you inside their shields first. And if they plan to capture you, you will only ensure an excruciating death for yourself if you shoot officers in the hangar bay as they pull you in.

{EDIT: it's also a violation of the normal accepted rules of conduct in war; the act of tractoring your escape pod in rather than blowing it up should not be rewarded by trying to kill the first officer you see; did it ever occur to you that any occupants of escape pods after your oh-so-clever little trick would curse your name because it would ensure that Imperial ships would blow up escape pods as SOP, and with good reason?}

Okay, well that makes sense. Now I understand why it's not a good idea; that's what I will always respond well to, rather than just hearing "You're stupid," which I will never accept.

[Master of Ossus]

In my own defense (as if that were possible), I did revise and clarify the above argument, to wit:

Nope, I seriously argued that the Feds could arm their escape pods with TR16s, thereby enabling anyone the Imperials attempted to capture to eliminate targets of opportunity aboard Imperial boarding craft or any capship unwise enough to tractor them inside its shields. But that's neither here nor there.

No one is quoting that because it is also stupid. I don't really see any reason to humor your moronic "tactics."

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Can anyone tell me, then, what the point in having a ST vs. SW debate forum is? Is there any strategy or tactic that wouldn't be stupid?

[Wicked Pilot]

You're one of the few people left here who insist that I'm an idiot

75% is a lot for a "few." Just where is your support anyway? Were are the screaming masses demanding that you be "deVillage Idioted"? I don't see them, where are they hiding?

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

You're one of the few people left here who insist that I'm an idiot

75% is a lot for a "few." Just where is your support anyway? Were are the screaming masses demanding that you be "deVillage Idioted"? I don't see them, where are they hiding?

Why do you insist on being an asshole, Pilot? Are you getting paid by the hour, or something?

[Kuja]

no, he just enjoys it.

[Master of Ossus]

Can anyone tell me, then, what the point in having a ST vs. SW debate forum is? Is there any strategy or tactic that wouldn't be stupid?

Of course there are. You just haven't thought of it, yet. Incidentally, the SW vs. ST debate is just a hobby. It does not, really, need a point. By the same token, I could ask what the point is of watching baseball games.

I don't mind telling you what the problem is with many tactics, but your ideas fall under the category of "Because they might be able to do it, it would work perfectly." This is a flawed method of reasoning. Tactics and strategies always begin with a desired effect, and they are developed from there. You seem to want us to rebut wave upon wave of crappy ideas. If you would just think about tactics like the one you developed before you posted them, you would not be made to look stupid nearly so often. Just a little advice.

[Master of Ossus]

You're one of the few people left here who insist that I'm an idiot

75% is a lot for a "few." Just where is your support anyway? Were are the screaming masses demanding that you be "deVillage Idioted"? I don't see them, where are they hiding?

Why do you insist on being an asshole, Pilot? Are you getting paid by the hour, or something?

Let me get this straight, RDJ here insisted that we explain WHY he was being stupid over and over and over again when the evidence was in front of everyone (and he told us that he would not respond to being called stupid), and then he comes around and tells WP that he is insisting on being an asshole. What a consistent, down to earth guy we have, here.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

You know, MoO, the problem is this: from where I sit, the Feds can't win. The only victories they could possibly extract are small victories, and the best kind of tactics they could put up, in my book, are shock tactics. And as a last-ditch shock-tactic, the above seems (to me) to work just fine. You have to admit that moving in to board an enemy vessel, and then suddenly having random craniums start exploding all around you, would be pretty freakin scary.

Basically, I don't see any way they could really win, so I'm trying to come up with ways to make the Empire's victory a little less sweet.

[Master of Ossus]

I, basically, agree with you in that the Federation cannot possibly win, but I don't see why it would be a good idea to launch a kamikaze attack against your future rulers. Usually it's better to endear yourself to your conquerers. But I digress.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

I, basically, agree with you in that the Federation cannot possibly win, but I don't see why it would be a good idea to launch a kamikaze attack against your future rulers. Usually it's better to endear yourself to your conquerers. But I digress.

Just a difference of outlook in that regard; I'm one of the people who cheered during Braveheart. Hope that doesn't sicken you exceedingly.

[Kuja]

You know, MoO, the problem is this: from where I sit, the Feds can't win. The only victories they could possibly extract are small victories, and the best kind of tactics they could put up, in my book, are shock tactics. And as a last-ditch shock-tactic, the above seems (to me) to work just fine. You have to admit that moving in to board an enemy vessel, and then suddenly having random craniums start exploding all around you, would be pretty freakin scary.

Basically, I don't see any way they could really win, so I'm trying to come up with ways to make the Empire's victory a little less sweet.

You know Raoul, if you were in Norse mythology, you'd be the biggest hero on the board. The Elder Edda praises the man who continues to resist in the face of certain defeat over the conquering hero.

[Darth Wong]

You know, MoO, the problem is this: from where I sit, the Feds can't win. The only victories they could possibly extract are small victories, and the best kind of tactics they could put up, in my book, are shock tactics. And as a last-ditch shock-tactic, the above seems (to me) to work just fine. You have to admit that moving in to board an enemy vessel, and then suddenly having random craniums start exploding all around you, would be pretty freakin scary.

And it would engender anger. First against the occupant of the escape pod who is obviously the cause of the attack, then against any comrades who might be in other escape pods, and finally against the civilian population of savages who would disregard the normal rules of conduct in war. Great idea.

Basically, I don't see any way they could really win, so I'm trying to come up with ways to make the Empire's victory a little less sweet.

With no significant benefit to you, no regard for the consequences, and a severe likelihood of significant detriment to your fellow soldiers' treatment in future, and perhaps that of your civilian population as well. That is why people assess your ideas and find them stupid.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

You know, MoO, the problem is this: from where I sit, the Feds can't win. The only victories they could possibly extract are small victories, and the best kind of tactics they could put up, in my book, are shock tactics. And as a last-ditch shock-tactic, the above seems (to me) to work just fine. You have to admit that moving in to board an enemy vessel, and then suddenly having random craniums start exploding all around you, would be pretty freakin scary.

Basically, I don't see any way they could really win, so I'm trying to come up with ways to make the Empire's victory a little less sweet.

You know Raoul, if you were in Norse mythology, you'd be the biggest hero on the board. The Elder Edda praises the man who continues to resist in the face of certain defeat over the conquering hero.

Well, that's what makes me the one-eyed, half-mad wielder of eloquence I am...

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

You know, MoO, the problem is this: from where I sit, the Feds can't win. The only victories they could possibly extract are small victories, and the best kind of tactics they could put up, in my book, are shock tactics. And as a last-ditch shock-tactic, the above seems (to me) to work just fine. You have to admit that moving in to board an enemy vessel, and then suddenly having random craniums start exploding all around you, would be pretty freakin scary.

And it would engender anger. First against the occupant of the escape pod who is obviously the cause of the attack, then against any comrades who might be in other escape pods, and finally against the civilian population of savages who would disregard the normal rules of conduct in war. Great idea.

Basically, I don't see any way they could really win, so I'm trying to come up with ways to make the Empire's victory a little less sweet.

With no significant benefit to you, no regard for the consequences, and a severe likelihood of significant detriment to your fellow soldiers' treatment in future, and perhaps that of your civilian population as well. That is why people assess your ideas and find them stupid.

And I have already conceded as much. I thought it might enlighten MoO to know the standpoint from which I conceived that stupid idea.

[Kuja]

Funny. You know, learning to take a compliment without sarcasm is a good way of making yourself popular.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Funny. You know, learning to take a compliment without sarcasm is a good way of making yourself popular.

I was being sincere, Iggy. I have vision in only one eye due to a high fever in infancy (and I know you'll find something to say about that), my unconventional sense of humor generally leads people to think I'm either a genius or an idiot (the consensus here is indisputable) and I'm a writer. In not a few (purely coincidental) ways, I resemble Odin.

And I do appreciate the compliment.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

In a combat situation, the Empire would most definitely practice their own savage tactics before the Feds would. So the Feds should just accept their brutal slaughterings like sheep? If it were me deciding how the Federation would fight, I'd broadcast a speech to all of the star systems of the Federation to fight off the Imperials by all means necessary and never surrender, or they would face horrible torture. The Imperials would undoubtedly do this to their prisoners, so it isn't lying or even exaggerating, and it is very effective in making war difficult for the Imperials. Go out with a bang. At least maybe when they're all dead and the war is over, the Imperials would respect their determination to keep fighting.

[Darth Wong]

In a combat situation, the Empire would most definitely practice their own savage tactics before the Feds would. So the Feds should just accept their brutal slaughterings like sheep? If it were me deciding how the Federation would fight, I'd broadcast a speech to all of the star systems of the Federation to fight off the Imperials by all means necessary and never surrender, or they would face horrible torture. The Imperials would undoubtedly do this to their prisoners, so it isn't lying or even exaggerating, and it is very effective in making war difficult for the Imperials. Go out with a bang. At least maybe when they're all dead and the war is over, the Imperials would respect their determination to keep fighting.

Ah, the macho moron concept. Good idea. Always try to ensure the worst possible treatment of your civilian populace after your government falls.

BTW, what makes you think the Empire always tortures its prisoners?

[Stravo]

Guys...I don't like to inject myself into these things, but come on. You're all ganging up on this guy for postulating stupid tactics in an engagement??? Let's leave it be, stop gang raping him and let it be. This is getting a tad childish.

He is NOT darkstar, he desreved this and so much more. He is not Arminus...he deserved to watch as his donkey was raped. This is not Azeron who deserved every solitary flame he got.

I have been reading this thread from the begining tonight and its just ugly at this point. Let it be folks...