the klingons VS modern earth

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-26 10:48am

And whats to stop the Klingons pulling up at 30,000 Kelicams (sp?) and simply beaming the nukes up and scattering their atoms? or using torps and disruptors to destroy them and every other satelite and thus putting the fubar on a hell of alot if the worlds communications and also weather monitoring (not that you care that much about the wetaher when Klingons are invading), plus satellite intel on what the Klingons are doing up there or infact what they are doing with their forces that are on the ground.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-26 11:26am

ok one the one side we have superstrong leather Armor clad morons with crappy swords v men in kevlar armor and armed with machine guns, and guy in tanks and fighter planes? is the term Duh familure to ya'll

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-10-26 11:28am

Since the Klingons want to catch Earth intact,
that pretty much rules out heavy orbital bombardment.
They could certainly blast a number of cities and
key installations without changing our biosphere to
any measurable degree, though. I still don't think
that would be enough to save their landing parties
from getting ripped once the Klingons finally land.

In ground combat, the Klingons are screwed. They'd
have to be literally on top of us to do any damage
with bat'leths. Otherwise, they'd just be cut down--probably
still would be--and that sort of tactic wouldn't go very
far anyhow: beaming troops into Earth military positions
over and over and OVER while taking losses would use
up all of the Klingons' ground troops pretty fast.

Then again, why would they do this? It's not really
fair to assume the Klingons are going to be so stupid,
yet we're going to start constructing all these fancy,
high-tech devices to counter their starships. To simply
say, "Well, Klingons are dumb like that on the show"
is context-swapping. On the show, they're facing
pansy-ass Federation types, not US!

That's a decent enough segue to striking their ships w/
nukes. In short, forget it.

That ain't gonna work. These "orbital assault shuttles"
are pure fantasy...even with three years' advance notice,
to simply invent something like this is only an effort to give us
a leg up in every combat medium. You'd have to let the
Klingons build some armor and dedicated ground combat
equipment if this logic was pursued to its fullest degree.

Besides, even with jacked up shuttles carrying nukes, the Klinks
would effortlessly shoot them down. They have little trouble
tracking UFP shuttles and Runabout-sized craft, both of which are
far quicker and more maneuverable than what we could cobble
together. They could easily blow one of these shuttles away on
launch, or blast it from range if it's already in orbit.

The only way I think we could nail a Klink ship is if they landed
somewhere on Earth. Even then, the Bird of Prey would have
ample time to detect the incoming bombers or ICBMs...it would
not work. Besides, most of our weapons aren't going to be
a true threat to the smallest (but shielded) Klingon scout Bird.
You'd at least want to pump several hundred kilotons directly
into the thing's shield, and that's going to be a lot easier said
than done (think entropy).

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-10-26 01:06pm

Tactical nukes fired from artillery would work against landed Klingon ships.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-26 01:32pm

These "orbital assault shuttles"
are pure fantasy...even with three years' advance notice,
to simply invent something like this is only an effort to give us
a leg up in every combat medium. You'd have to let the
Klingons build some armor and dedicated ground combat
equipment if this logic was pursued to its fullest degree.

It was a joke see I'm calling our Nuclear Missles "Orbital Assult Shuttles"

Hopefuly lessoning thier chances of shooting down our "Oribtial Assult Shuttles"

Right before they exploded

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-26 03:42pm

Earth, or Albania for that matter, can take them with zero warning and even if outnumbered 15 to 1

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-26 03:49pm

Yeah Sure

I guess I will take you word for it.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-10-26 03:51pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Tactical nukes fired from artillery would work against landed Klingon ships.

These are no more than about 5KT.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-26 04:01pm

Why would the ships land?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-10-26 05:38pm

Wrong. We tested 300 Kt + warheads from artillery and cruise missiles can go into MTs. And dropped from heavy aircraft....Tsar Bomba.

Post by **Coyote** » 2002-10-26 11:18pm

The only reason we would need three years head start would be to prepare orbital defenses. The ground warfare would take care of itself-- how good is a Bat'leth against an M-1A2? Hell, a Sherman for that matter... On the ground they'd be meat on the table.

As for boarding a ship, it is only a matter of time before a BoP lands for whatever reason and we stormed it. Even if it was destroyed we'd get a handle on their tech pretty quickly, and every dead Klingon can also supply us with a few disruptor pistols to study and use. Still, they would offer little advantage over our own weapons. We've got so many more cool things than M-16s and Kalashnikovs. There's napalm, white phos, gas, mines, and so on.

And of course, if we get ahold of one of their communicators, we can just shout the Klingon words for 'beam me up now!' like Kirk did in Search for Spock and the Klingons themselves are dumb enough to eaither beam up some Marines or a ticking nuke. Or Jackie Chan.

The only hitch in our defense plan might be if they can set their shipboard phasers for stun like the Enterprise could. On the other hand, we could trick them by saying that East Jerusalem and Grozny are our most important capital cities and if they can take those two places we'd have to surrender. The rest of the world can just sit back and watch, at that point.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2002-10-27 12:47am

The Klingons rule in space (compared to us). Satellite tv companies and consumers are screwed. GPS stops working. All satellite communications go down, for that matter. So does the ISS. Would the Klingons blow the ISS out of space or attempt to capture it? The three year forewarning might allow us to get large nukes usefully into space, but I wouldn't count on it.
If they're willing to blow up the ships and bases from orbit they can win the air and sea war easily. That leaves land battles.
The Klingons would get beaten in land battles. After that they might get creative. Hit and run raids using transporter cavalry are a possibility. Earth will need a large militia presence to protect all of the urban areas. I don't think the Klingons will be able to take and hold anything with their current ground forces, though.

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2002-10-27 01:20am

"Or Jackie Chan. "

LOL!

Invader ZIm · Post by **Invader ZIm** » 2002-10-27 03:02am

Question:

Are these TOS Klingons, or the ones we have seen from the Movies and TNG?

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-27 03:44am

normally these would be TNG Klingons.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-27 05:03am

Here it is (but it isnt great quality)

An enlarged version

Asx you can see the ship has been pretty much gutted yet its warp core has exploded in a firey ball of plasma flame.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-27 05:04am

wrong thread.

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2002-10-27 02:30pm

About the nukes hitting Klingon ships:
Well, we do have three years of time to develop a good guidance prog for ICBMs to hit stuff in outerspace.
I do not know how good they are at targetting them, but can they shoot down a couple of hundred (or thousands) of ICBMs heading for them?

My plan (if their ships can't be hit with ICBMs):
We DO know how easy it is to jam Transporters, so:
We develop a simple jamming device (hell, maybe those we have nowadays would suffice) that jams Transporters.
We let the Klingons transport down somewhere. Jam the area (I don't expect them to jam out in nowhere, they would transport close to cities or other vital areas) and call in the artillery, tanks, and air force.
Let them send out communication, so that their ships will here them slaughtered.
The ships will then try to land in order to pull out their troops. When the ships land, have them hit by everything possible (maybe even ICBMs. though the fallout would be severe).
Question: Do they have to lower shields in order to retrieve their troops?
If yes, its even easier to destroy their ships once landed (simply artillery would do it).

Overall, they can forget invading Earth (any guerrilla force could fend off any ground attacks).
The main problem (and one that can't be solved) is the possibility of orbital support fire to destroy significant ground forces or other important military buuldings.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-27 02:38pm

Yeah and while you are making that jamming device create some planetary defences (a planetry shield is a must), maybe invent warp drive aswell how about strapping on disruptors to modern tanks (except make them 5x as powerful as klingon disruptors).

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-10-27 02:42pm

Remember, we know Klingons. However, even with forewarning, and for the purposes of this thread, how much does Earth know about Klingons? Even if Earth knew about transporters, would they know they could be jammed?

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-10-27 03:15pm

I doubt it. But isn't ECM in combat kinda obvious? Somebody's bound to think of jamming communications or something, which might jam the transporter beam as well.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-27 03:19pm

might - got anyway to try and determine the chances?

We already know that most transporter problems are sensor related and that beaming down isnt affected by sensors (in Descent part 1 the crew can beam down onto a planet with EM radiation blocking their sensors), so I tend to think the Klingons could beam down past jamming modern earth can put out and if they use pattern enhancers or the like they could probably get back up again aswell.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-27 05:12pm

D.Turtle wrote:About the nukes hitting Klingon ships:
Well, we do have three years of time to develop a good guidance prog for ICBMs to hit stuff in outerspace.
I do not know how good they are at targetting them, but can they shoot down a couple of hundred (or thousands) of ICBMs heading for them?

My plan (if their ships can't be hit with ICBMs):
We DO know how easy it is to jam Transporters, so:
We develop a simple jamming device (hell, maybe those we have nowadays would suffice) that jams Transporters.
We let the Klingons transport down somewhere. Jam the area (I don't expect them to jam out in nowhere, they would transport close to cities or other vital areas) and call in the artillery, tanks, and air force.
Let them send out communication, so that their ships will here them slaughtered.
The ships will then try to land in order to pull out their troops. When the ships land, have them hit by everything possible (maybe even ICBMs. though the fallout would be severe).
Question: Do they have to lower shields in order to retrieve their troops?
If yes, its even easier to destroy their ships once landed (simply artillery would do it).

Overall, they can forget invading Earth (any guerrilla force could fend off any ground attacks).
The main problem (and one that can't be solved) is the possibility of orbital support fire to destroy significant ground forces or other important military buuldings.

ICBM's cannot reach orbit, they are Ballistic weapons, thus the B in ICBM. Targeting is irrelevant because of this. A Fraction Orbital Bombardment weapon can reach orbit, but only one regiment of those was ever deployed, by the USSR, and they got rid of them in less then two years. That was in the 1970's.

Anyway, you'd need a totally need a totally new RV with a seeker of some sort and propulsion, not just new programming.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-27 05:13pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:I doubt it. But isn't ECM in combat kinda obvious? Somebody's bound to think of jamming communications or something, which might jam the transporter beam as well.

I'd place money on Earths massive amount of communications related radiation working. The vast majority of the spectrum is already in use, and while that might not jam the transport beam it could easily play hell with the sensors needed to target them.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-10-27 05:41pm

Apart from the fact that Voyager used her transporters in orbit of - 1996 earth, sorry please try again