An Accurate Represntation of the US Election

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-11-15 02:13pm

data_link wrote: Okay... so my "defense" of Al Gore was toally illogical and irrational. Sometimes I need to be beaten over the head with it. Thank you.

I wouldn't say that, I am merely stating that I think your defense of him is flawed. There are soem thing I preffered in his campaing promise set over Bush but then again I didn't like either of them and voted for Nader. My point was that I think there are logical flaws in some of your arguments which is not to say that they don't contain some truth.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-11-15 02:19pm

Nah... Gore wouldn't be that bad compared to Bush. At least Gore had a functioning brain.

But Gore's Vice President choice was was Liberman, The Young Earth Creatonist who happens to be friends with Jerry Falwel, if that does not discretit him I don't know what does

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-15 02:23pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Nah... Gore wouldn't be that bad compared to Bush. At least Gore had a functioning brain.
But Gore's Vice President choice was was Liberman, The Young Earth Creatonist who happens to be friends with Jerry Falwel, if that does not discretit him I don't know what does

Liberman's a YEC?

Why the hell didn't someone tell me this sooner?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-11-15 02:35pm

Why the hell didn't someone tell me this sooner?

I though you would have clued in by him say that God was on the side of the Democrates in 2000 and saying Bush will get it in the end for cheating Gore(And him of course) of Victory

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-15 02:40pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Why the hell didn't someone tell me this sooner?
I though you would have clued in by him say that God was on the side of the Democrates in 2000 and saying Bush will get it in the end for cheating Gore(And him of course) of Victory

No, I thought that was just political posturing.

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2002-11-15 02:46pm

data_link wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:
Why the hell didn't someone tell me this sooner?
I though you would have clued in by him say that God was on the side of the Democrates in 2000 and saying Bush will get it in the end for cheating Gore(And him of course) of Victory
No, I thought that was just political posturing.

LOL political posturing? nice

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2002-11-15 06:51pm

al gore: the environmentalist whacko robot. (no personality, flunked out of divinity school and if i remember right, also out of law school, would like to see us back to horse and buggy)

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-11-16 05:37pm

Anyone who likes Bush is a chimp lover! j/k

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-11-16 06:25pm

No, I thought that was just political posturing.

Noo thats was the Real Deal, I know its sometimes hard to tell with all the Bullshit Politicions around when you get a literal crazy Wacko Nutjob like Liberman you can miss him because he sounds like all the other Librals(Or Conservatives) but he means it

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-11-16 10:35pm

The probelm with the Democrats is that they're out of touch with the average voter (too liberal). If the Democrats try being more liberal, they'll just lose more voters.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-16 11:39pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:The probelm with the Democrats is that they're out of touch with the average voter (too liberal). If the Democrats try being more liberal, they'll just lose more voters.

You speak as if thats a bad thing. Hippies on the throne is bad, thankfully Georgie Boy is too stupidtoo realize the advantage.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-11-16 11:42pm

Captain Lennox wrote:
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:The probelm with the Democrats is that they're out of touch with the average voter (too liberal). If the Democrats try being more liberal, they'll just lose more voters.
You speak as if thats a bad thing. Hippies on the throne is bad, thankfully Georgie Boy is too stupidtoo realize the advantage.

Ah, but better the moron we know about than the moron we don't.

Ultra · Post by **Ultra** » 2002-11-17 12:40am

So you dunderheads would rather have this oil freak in the white house, rather than Gore?

Gore's grandfather didn't do business with the Nazi's. Chimp's grandpappy, Prescot Bush, did this, and his business was busted.

Gore does not have close ties to terrorists, Bush does. Gore did not fund the fanatic fundie Taliban with 50 million for a war on opium, Bush did. Bush had Bin Laden's family escorted out of the US soon after 9/11 occured.

The Bush family and Bush's administration are big on oil.

- The new leader we put in Afghanistan worked for UNOCAL
- Bush appointed a special envoy to represent the US to
deal with that new government, who formerly was the
"chief consultant to UNOCAL".
- The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil
- Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an
oil company before
going to Washington
- George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group"
specializing in huge oil investments around the world
- Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before going to
Washington
- Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after
Condoleezza
- Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate
Haliburton before becoming VP
- Haliburton gave Cheney tens of millions (IIRC, 34 million) of dollars as a farewell gift when he left Haliburton
- Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business
- There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the
Caspian Sea area
- John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress
and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a
more friendly government was established
- Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was
told by senior American officials in mid-July that
military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by
the middle of October
- 9/11 WTC disaster occurs, after our gov't threatens to bomb Afghanistanb
- The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we
will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan
pipeline
- President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karzai,
(Afghanistan -Unocal) announce agreement to build
proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan
via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02)

Bush pushed for the Patriot Act. 'nuff said.

This administration has blocked all attempts at an 9/11 investigation in the past.

The Patriot Act abrogated the following American constitutional protections:
Free expression of opinion
Freedom of the press
Right of assembly and association
Right to privacy of postal and electronic communications
Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
Individual property rights
States' right of self-government
Presidential decrees make it possible for military forces to be used to monitor and control the civilian population, in abrogation of the posse comitatus act
I'm not going to past every fucking word of the thing here. It's 400+ pages long. There's shitloads of info on the net about it.

Just as in Hitler's Enabling Act, Bush Jr. forced the Homeland Security bill through Congress which gave him complete dictatorial powers:

- the President is able to make any decision he wishes without judicial or legislative restraint

- the executive branch can now carry on its meetings in secret, without scrutiny from the press or the people

- the "homeland security" agents can now intrude in any part of a citizen's life

The Cyber Security Enhancement Act slipped into the Homeland Security bill at the last moment:

- allows police to conduct Internet or telephone eavesdropping willy-nilly with no requirement to ask a court's permission first

- demands life sentences for hackers that 'recklessly' endanger lives

- allows Net surveillance to gather telephone numbers, IP addresses, and URLs or e-mail information, where an 'immediate threat to a national security interest' is suspected

- permits ISPs to hand users' records over to law enforcement authorities, overturning current legislation that outlaws such behaviour

- the Homeland Security Information Awareness Office will be run by a former convicted felon

- up to 850,000 jobs will be privatized, knocking out union and civil service oversight

Guess what? Bush did this, not Gore, so how can you ignorant fucks even DARE badmouth the man who had the election stolen from him?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-11-17 12:48am

Simple, as bad as all that sounds, Gore was part of an administration for eight years and did just about nothing to improve the goverment and its dealings that you outlined above.

As scary as Bush is, Gore is even more so.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-17 12:49am

Ultra wrote:So you dunderheads would rather have this oil freak in the white house, rather than Gore?

Gore's grandfather didn't do business with the Nazi's. Chimp's grandpappy, Prescot Bush, did this, and his business was busted.

Gore does not have close ties to terrorists, Bush does. Gore did not fund the fanatic fundie Taliban with 50 million for a war on opium, Bush did. Bush had Bin Laden's family escorted out of the US soon after 9/11 occured.

The Bush family and Bush's administration are big on oil.

- The new leader we put in Afghanistan worked for UNOCAL
- Bush appointed a special envoy to represent the US to
deal with that new government, who formerly was the
"chief consultant to UNOCAL".
- The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil
- Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an
oil company before
going to Washington
- George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group"
specializing in huge oil investments around the world
- Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before going to
Washington
- Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after
Condoleezza
- Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate
Haliburton before becoming VP
- Haliburton gave Cheney tens of millions (IIRC, 34 million) of dollars as a farewell gift when he left Haliburton
- Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business
- There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the
Caspian Sea area
- John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress
and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a
more friendly government was established
- Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was
told by senior American officials in mid-July that
military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by
the middle of October
- 9/11 WTC disaster occurs, after our gov't threatens to bomb Afghanistanb
- The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we
will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan
pipeline
- President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karzai,
(Afghanistan -Unocal) announce agreement to build
proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan
via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02)

Bush pushed for the Patriot Act. 'nuff said.

This administration has blocked all attempts at an 9/11 investigation in the past.

The Patriot Act abrogated the following American constitutional protections:
Free expression of opinion
Freedom of the press
Right of assembly and association
Right to privacy of postal and electronic communications
Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
Individual property rights
States' right of self-government
Presidential decrees make it possible for military forces to be used to monitor and control the civilian population, in abrogation of the posse comitatus act
I'm not going to past every fucking word of the thing here. It's 400+ pages long. There's shitloads of info on the net about it.

Just as in Hitler's Enabling Act, Bush Jr. forced the Homeland Security bill through Congress which gave him complete dictatorial powers:

- the President is able to make any decision he wishes without judicial or legislative restraint

- the executive branch can now carry on its meetings in secret, without scrutiny from the press or the people

- the "homeland security" agents can now intrude in any part of a citizen's life

The Cyber Security Enhancement Act slipped into the Homeland Security bill at the last moment:

- allows police to conduct Internet or telephone eavesdropping willy-nilly with no requirement to ask a court's permission first

- demands life sentences for hackers that 'recklessly' endanger lives

- allows Net surveillance to gather telephone numbers, IP addresses, and URLs or e-mail information, where an 'immediate threat to a national security interest' is suspected

- permits ISPs to hand users' records over to law enforcement authorities, overturning current legislation that outlaws such behaviour

- the Homeland Security Information Awareness Office will be run by a former convicted felon

- up to 850,000 jobs will be privatized, knocking out union and civil service oversight

Guess what? Bush did this, not Gore, so how can you ignorant fucks even DARE badmouth the man who had the election stolen from him?

THANK YOU! It's about time someone listed all the crimes of that bastard.

Bush threatened to bomb Afghanistan before 9/11? Geez, this guy is even worse than I thought.

Ultra · Post by **Ultra** » 2002-11-17 12:54am

Knife wrote:Simple, as bad as all that sounds, Gore was part of an administration for eight years and did just about nothing to improve the goverment and its dealings that you outlined above.

As scary as Bush is, Gore is even more so.

You have anything important to add, or you just going to sit there and poke fun at Gore?

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-17 12:59am

While Gore hasn't done anything particularly good, the fact is that this is the best thing you can ask for (and have a hope of getting) in a politician. He is completely ineffectual. Therefore, he won't be able to do any harm. Bush on the other hand...

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-11-17 01:02am

Ultra wrote:
Knife wrote:Simple, as bad as all that sounds, Gore was part of an administration for eight years and did just about nothing to improve the goverment and its dealings that you outlined above.

As scary as Bush is, Gore is even more so.
You have anything important to add, or you just going to sit there and poke fun at Gore?

I thought that it was a valid point. All of the "crimes" you point out in your post were done durring an administration that Gore was a part of. In fact, he was in charge or restructuring the goverment was he not?

I am not saying that Bush is the super dude of the goverment, but IMHO Gore represented a larger threat to my beliefs.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-17 01:08am

Knife wrote:
Ultra wrote:
Knife wrote:Simple, as bad as all that sounds, Gore was part of an administration for eight years and did just about nothing to improve the goverment and its dealings that you outlined above.

As scary as Bush is, Gore is even more so.
You have anything important to add, or you just going to sit there and poke fun at Gore?
I thought that it was a valid point. All of the "crimes" you point out in your post were done durring an administration that Gore was a part of. In fact, he was in charge or restructuring the goverment was he not?

I am not saying that Bush is the super dude of the goverment, but IMHO Gore represented a larger threat to my beliefs.

Excuse me? Just where do you see Gore in the Bush administration? He lost you idiot - not a fair loss, but still a loss. Or are you getting him mixed up with the other George Bush?

Ultra · Post by **Ultra** » 2002-11-17 01:09am

Knife wrote:
Ultra wrote:
Knife wrote:Simple, as bad as all that sounds, Gore was part of an administration for eight years and did just about nothing to improve the goverment and its dealings that you outlined above.

As scary as Bush is, Gore is even more so.
You have anything important to add, or you just going to sit there and poke fun at Gore?
I thought that it was a valid point. All of the "crimes" you point out in your post were done durring an administration that Gore was a part of. In fact, he was in charge or restructuring the goverment was he not?

I am not saying that Bush is the super dude of the goverment, but IMHO Gore represented a larger threat to my beliefs.

Make an honest attempt to read next time.

Gore's grandfather didn't do business with the Nazi's. Chimp's grandpappy, Prescot Bush, did this, and his business was busted.

Didn't happen under Clinton

Gore does not have close ties to terrorists, Bush does. Gore did not fund the fanatic fundie Taliban with 50 million for a war on opium, Bush did. Bush had Bin Laden's family escorted out of the US soon after 9/11 occured.

BUSH'S ADMIN FUCKING FUNDED THEM, NOT CLINTON'S

The Bush family and Bush's administration are big on oil.

- The new leader we put in Afghanistan worked for UNOCAL
- Bush appointed a special envoy to represent the US to
deal with that new government, who formerly was the
"chief consultant to UNOCAL".
- The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil
- Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an
oil company before
going to Washington
- George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group"
specializing in huge oil investments around the world
- Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before going to
Washington
- Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after
Condoleezza
- Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate
Haliburton before becoming VP
- Haliburton gave Cheney tens of millions (IIRC, 34 million) of dollars as a farewell gift when he left Haliburton
- Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business
- There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the
Caspian Sea area
- John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress
and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a
more friendly government was established
- Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was
told by senior American officials in mid-July that
military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by
the middle of October
- 9/11 WTC disaster occurs, after our gov't threatens to bomb Afghanistanb
- The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we
will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan
pipeline
- President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karzai,
(Afghanistan -Unocal) announce agreement to build
proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan
via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02)

All this happened under Bush. The only thing you could possibly set at Clinton's feet was the fact that some companies were putting these plans into motion before Bush came into office. This only suggests that the corporations were behind this thing and manipulated Bush, not the other way around. Also, even though some of the planning happened under Clinton, so what? ALL THE LEGISLATION HE PASSED TO STOP THIS SHIT WAS BLOCKED BY THE REPUBS AND CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS, one example : Clinton (barely) passed legislation that disallowed corporations to store money in offshore accounts. Bush did away with this legislation as soon as he entered office. That goes to show that all the work Clinton did to stop this shit was shot down by republicans during and after his administration.

Bush pushed for the Patriot Act. 'nuff said.

Clinton didn't help draft this thing up. He didn't get it passed either.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-11-17 01:12am

There are several voting strategies: typically, vote for candidates that supports your issues, and vote for candidates who are better for the job.

Personally, I supported Democrats in the 2000 election for the reason that they appeared better than Republicans. Republicans' conservative agenda was just horrid. Bush and his fellows had a greater interest in protecting big business. Dems were supported by businesses too, but the bond wasn't nearly as tight as that with the Republicans. Also, higher taxes isn't necessarily bad, and neither is greater government control of economy. Higher taxes can help rein in inflation, and higher government spending may ease a recession. But of course, this requires competent and neutral government officials in control. Dems and Republicans are about equally adept(or rather, not adept) at this.

I also really didn't care about Al Gore's faults when I compared him to Bush. The Clinton era wasn't that bad(for me, of course). Hell, I even liked the sex scandals. But the bottom line was that Clinton and Gore did not do anything so irksome as Bush's current goals such as attempting to rewrite power in the Middle East.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-11-17 01:25am

EEEERg, I really hate to have to defend the moron the I believe the President to be but.

1.

But the bottom line was that Clinton and Gore did not do anything so irksome as Bush's current goals such as attempting to rewrite power in the Middle East.

Nope, just in Bosneia, Hati, Somalia, Kosovo, ect..... The idea that the Clinton era was peace and prosperity is dumb.

2. Over half the points in Ultra's post relates to Oil. If the bussiness practices were so corrupt either before or durring the Clinton/Gore admin. then why didn't he do anything about it? Yeah, that damned Republican Congress he had before 94.

3. I actualy agree with you on the opium, we should have brought down the Taliban just for the primary source of opium that they grow and distribute throughout the world.

4. You both seem to be aweful angry about this whole thing. Since I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat I had a very hard time deciding who to vote for in 2000. Bush won my vote, but just barely and if there were a better choise, I would have made it.

Ultra · Post by **Ultra** » 2002-11-17 01:33am

Knife wrote: EEEERg, I really hate to have to defend the moron the I believe the President to be but.

1.
But the bottom line was that Clinton and Gore did not do anything so irksome as Bush's current goals such as attempting to rewrite power in the Middle East.
Nope, just in Bosneia, Hati, Somalia, Kosovo, ect..... The idea that the Clinton era was peace and prosperity is dumb.

2. Over half the points in Ultra's post relates to Oil. If the bussiness practices were so corrupt either before or durring the Clinton/Gore admin. then why didn't he do anything about it? Yeah, that damned Republican Congress he had before 94.

Yet again, you ignored what I posted. The vast majority of this stuff happened under Bush. UNDER BUSH. Conveniently, you forget that congress fucked with Clinton during his entire administration. What can he do about terrorism and corrupt business practices when hypocritical conservative fucks are trying to bring him down over a blowjob and lies from whores like Paula Jones and Juanita, AND at the same time blocking almost every piece of legislation he's trying to endorse or push?

And if Clinton was such a bad guy, then why is he respected the world over? Bush certainly isn't.

3. I actualy agree with you on the opium, we should have brought down the Taliban just for the primary source of opium that they grow and distribute throughout the world.

Are you fucking nuts?

4. You both seem to be aweful angry about this whole thing. Since I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat I had a very hard time deciding who to vote for in 2000. Bush won my vote, but just barely and if there were a better choise, I would have made it.

There is no comparison between Gore and Bush. None. Gore is an einstein compared to that little shit. You voted for Bush because you are fucking ignorant on almost every issue you've discussed in this thread.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-11-17 01:38am

Ok, and a personal attacks by you acomplishes what? Again you seem rather angery at anyone who does not think in lock step with you. You tend too see things through a political filter.

So back the fuck off, if you don't want different opinions, too bad.

Ultra · Post by **Ultra** » 2002-11-17 01:52am

Knife wrote:Ok, and a personal attacks by you acomplishes what? Again you seem rather angery at anyone who does not think in lock step with you. You tend too see things through a political filter.

So back the fuck off, if you don't want different opinions, too bad.

No, you seem to be a lamer who ignores half of what I post. Expect to be called out when you show your ass in front of me.

As for your invitation, no thanks.