1984 vs. Brave New World

[Enforcer Talen]

From what I've heard about 1984, the guys you listed will have a harder time overthrowing Huxley's gov, since all the citizens have been conditioned to their roles ever since their eggs were first fertilized.

That's nothing. 1984 is more terrifying.

True, but people in Brave New World are incapable of resisting their conditioning. They have so many rebels in 1984 that an entire branch of the government (a full quarter, in Oceania) is dedicated to combating rebellion. In Brave New World, no such thing is necessary. Additionally, the proletariat in 1984 has the potential to revolt, if sparked and led. In Brave New World, their lower castes CANNOT rebel, and CANNOT be led by members of the upper class, even if they attempt to create a revolt.

of course, how much rebellion was really possible? a full quarter to combat rebellion, sure, but stalinism had nearly as much, and they had to make up people to hunt down. not to say that rebellion was mentally impossible, it happened for the protagonist in 1984, but it would never get past that. who would lead them? anyone who has a rebellious thought is found out very quickly, and watched. not rebellious acts, anymore, but potential of - a thought crime against big brother. I cant imagine the spark being set except by outside forces, and those on a national level. a james bond or batman would be found out in hours.

[XPViking]

The BNW government has shown greater control over their populance. The savages out in the savage lands aren't organized nor have the guns to fight. In 1984, we don't see evidence of genetic manipulation on the scale as in BNW. Sure, there are cameras and microphones all over the place but even those have their blind spots. Remember that even a high-ranking official in 1984 was actually able to turn off the surveillance device in his living room. Why would such a feature even be allowed?

BNW wins unless, as previously mentioned, the soma stops being produced. Then you would have riots on a massive scale.

XPViking


edit: fixed a typo

[lgot]

You must remember than when the BNW finds a different mind they do not oppres like 1984, they just put them apart of their society in the "You are not happy with us, fine, you are free to go outside, without what we offer". The savage was not actually a part of BNW Society. He is from the areas where that society do not go.
But the main reason there is no revolt is that there is no insatisfaction or any reason for that. You can get pretty much what you want. It is a society of consume unlike 1984 a society of workers. The savage is a deviant that does not belong to that society. Hermholtz (sp?, I forget, In my opinion the best character of the book) for example choses to be free and away and the controler accepts that fine.
But of course both wanted to make political statment, just that Huxley - a worse writter than Orwell - lost the track and in the end he left the book in doubt of what is good or not. Accept what the govern offer and do not be free or be free and without governament. Funny, How Huxley later wrote "The Island" after his LSD experiences and wrote the same story, just in a hippie comunity and this time there is no opotion, the governament will do something ,either you want or not.

[XPViking]

Igot,

Right. I maintain that a government such as BNW, which has conditioned its population to think a certain way, through genetic manipulation, conditioning, and drugs will have a less likely chance of rebellion. Sure, there is "free will" in BNW, but to paraphrase Mustapha Mond "some have bigger bottles than others". Rebellious thoughts enter, but they are quickly snuffed out and the agitators are shuttled off to remote islands.

The Orwellian government, however, has active monitoring of the population through devices and well-placed spies. Fear is controlling everyone while in BNW, stupidity and the inability to think for themselves is.

Both are good books. I recommend Neil Postman's book "Amusing Ourselves to Death".

XPViking

[SWPIGWANG]

1984 will destory itself

eternal warfare is not eternal

and with their economic inefficiency, it would only be a generation or two before the resources needed to support even the party be depleted.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

1984 would implode from the inside, but BNW would be hopeless unless you get an ISD in orbit to take out Soma production facilities faster than they can be produced. Or you have 2 far simpler choices: Base Delta Zero or Commence Primary Ignition.

[InnerBrat]

BNW will easily last longer, because its self maintaining - there's no one who is outside the system and for whom the system runs - like the inner party. Everyone has been conditioned to enjoy their society.

[lgot]

XPViking:

But I also think BNW will last longer. The freedom they have in that sittuation shows they know how to react to thinking. The 1984 world deals with people who can not think. It is absolute impossible to maintan that preasure and control and actually the more you press more you can provoke rebellion.
Actually, BNW , apart the obvious exagerations like genetic and destruciton of the culture, is much more a portrait of the world today than 1984 (which was more a portrait of for example, Soviet Union under Stalin).
1984 was about a system that usually last for a period of time and BNW about a more lasting society.

[Setzer]

Both societies will end when Earth's resources are depleted. It could be a century or two, it could be millions of years, but neither society can last forever.

[Skelron]

okay first of the inner party guy could switch of his machine... possibly, then again maybe not, he was after all acting all that time. When ingsoc was completed the society was complete no implosion because the thoughts for rebelion would have No words to form them... The society was not inefficent either, it used up it's surplus that was the point of the wars, so there was a surplus but they used it up... No orwal's society was very secure, they where able to defeat LOVE, too destroy it, complety in a person, to take a rebel and make them not a rebel....

'If there is a hope it lies with the proles' this is where a Superhero has a chance if they can survive long enough to avoid the kill teams that is...