FIFA World Cup Thread

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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

Master of Ossus wrote:Lest anyone in France think that any of the FFF is leaving South Africa with any trace of class.

It's much worse than merely "refusing to shake hands" with Parreira after the game. It's like... an active attempt to display as little human decency as possible. Fuck France. They got in by handling the ball, and left while refusing to shake hands with an opponent who was underskilled but tenacious and honorable.
To properly understand why the French are so poor, one must examine what they are missing;



Power, pace, athleticism, touch, control, strength, guile, agility, balance, vision, intelligence, grace, speed, the list is endless. It's not easy to rebuild when that leaves your team. Add to the fact that Raymond Domenech list of honors included the French division 2 and, well that's it!

For once I agree with Fozzie, Domenech was acting like a pig of a man.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Master of Ossus »

Crown wrote:To properly understand why the French are so poor, one must examine what they are missing;

[snip]

For once I agree with Fozzie, Domenech was acting like a pig of a man.
France, frankly, was also missing Henry. He was still on the team, of course, but really he's not the player he was four years ago. Ribery's really good, of course, but it's just not the same without Henry and Zidane.

Incidentally, I'm about an hour into the Slovakia-Italy game, and the game's been interesting even to this point (I've heard what happens, later). It's also refreshing to be able to say this (at least through the one-hour mark): the referee has been excellent. Easily the best I've seen in the tournament, ths far. He's a bald white guy, too--must be something about the genes, or something.

Edit: okay, it's over. Great game. Maybe as good as US v. Slovenia (although that was thrilling throughout and this was really only good for the last ~20 minutes). Also, the officials did fabulously with a really difficult match in which the players were extremely uncooperative.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by CarsonPalmer »

Thanas wrote:So that makes Germany the only nation to have always gone beyond the group phase in every world cup.

(unless Brazil did as well, but I am not so sure about that).
The Italians have been knocked out in the group phase. They lost to Poland in the last group game of the 1974 World Cup and got bounced in favor of Argentina.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Modax »

I notice that Chile received 5 yellow cards during their last match (v. Switzerland) including one for their star player Suazo. Fernandez and Carmona haved each accumulated two yellows during the 2 games. Spain, on the other hand, is the only team in the tournament yet to receive any cards. This will give Spain an extra edge in their game tomorrow, correct?

Anyone think we're going to see Spain choke again regardless? I hope not. I would really like to see a Spain v Brazil final, which can only happen if they each win their respective groups.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Modax »

Anyone else notice the knockout stage is looking decidedly lopsided? In terms of real contenders, on one branch you have Argentina, Germany, England, Mexico, (and probably) Spain and Portugal. On the other branch there's Brazil and...Uruguay...and...Ghana.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by D.Turtle »

Well, at least the US has good chances of reaching the semifinals (as thats the first chance of them meeting a really good team).

On the other hand, if we should reach the finals, we would have knocked out England, probably Argentina and probably Brazil or Portugal.

Well, at least the games should be interesting.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Vendetta »

D.Turtle wrote:On the other hand, if we should reach the finals, we would have knocked out England, probably Argentina and probably Brazil or Portugal.
If the USA reach the semis, that's where they're likely to meet Brazil. England, Argentina, and probably Portugal are all going to be on the other track, so the US wouldn't meet them until the final/playoff.

(England's quarter final opponent in the unlikely event we beat Germany is probably going to be Argentina, so it'd take a miracle for us to reach the semis).
Modax wrote:Spain, on the other hand, is the only team in the tournament yet to receive any cards. This will give Spain an extra edge in their game tomorrow, correct?
A small one, but to go through top they've got to win by 2 or better, so even 1-0 sees them through second, unless Switzerland do something mental and win 3-0.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Enigma »

I'd like to see Portugal win or tie today with no goals scored against them as they are currently the only team in their group with no goals against. I'd like to see their clean sheet continue. :)
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Patrick Degan »

Enigma wrote:Denmark finally managed to score a goal. :)

But Japan scored again. 3-1 for Japan and the match is almost over. :)
Well, really, that match was over by the 30th minute. The Danes were just completely lackluster after that point and even before that they seemed hard-pressed to keep up with the Japanese attack.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

Master of Ossus wrote:France, frankly, was also missing Henry. He was still on the team, of course, but really he's not the player he was four years ago.
A few things;
  • Henry hasn't got the legs for the game anymore, he is (well now was) officially the slowest player in FIFA 2010 South Africa out of all the nations (including their goalkeepers).
  • Henry was never truly able to replicate his club form for his country at any time in his career.
  • And the few times that he could, he could get them goals but he couldn't 'create' them, he wasn't the 'play maker'.

Master of Ossus wrote:Ribery's really good, of course, but it's just not the same without Henry and Zidane.
Ribery is a good winger, but not this tournament. He's been horrible, never tried to skin his marker once during the first two games, and he - like Henry - is not a play maker, although he - unlike Henry - thinks he is which is why the French team are so fucked up because of his attitude splitting the camp.
Master of Ossus wrote:Incidentally, I'm about an hour into the Slovakia-Italy game, and the game's been interesting even to this point (I've heard what happens, later). It's also refreshing to be able to say this (at least through the one-hour mark): the referee has been excellent. Easily the best I've seen in the tournament, ths far. He's a bald white guy, too--must be something about the genes, or something.
Howard Webb is a twat. About the only thing he's good for is not getting conned by dives -- unless of course the person diving happens to wear a Manchester United top, and in that case it's penalties all round! That wanker gifted United the 08/09 title.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

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With the DPRK out, I'm supporting Germany.

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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

The commentators are whining about the Brazil vs Portugal game, I'm loving it! It's like a Merseyside Derby! Great aggression, dirty, scrappy (not the best football I'll admit), but some nice clashes.

Sometimes the beautiful game needs to be a little ugly! :wink:
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Enigma »

I'm liking the match between Portugal and Brazil. It may look like it'll be a draw. But in this World Cup that means Portugal would win. :) lol

Ten minutes left.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

Enigma wrote:I'm liking the match between Portugal and Brazil. It may look like it'll be a draw. But in this World Cup that means Portugal would win. :) lol

Ten minutes left.
Meh, kinday just fizzled out in the second half. Bring on Spain vs Chile!
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

I'm happy Spain are winning, but I hope that Chile go through, this is a great football match!

EDIT :: Chile are excellent, but in-disciplined! Estrada got hard done by with that send off, but then again he was lucky to not get his second yellow for the tackle against Ineista. So far, if they can take the slightly late tackles out of their game, they would have Spain on the ropes, who for large periods of the first half looked shell shocked that they didn't have possession of the ball.

:shock:
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I love the ickle football icon on YouTube videos now.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Modax »

I picked up on the fact that Spain are considered co-favourites for this tournament straightaway, but it didn't hit me just *how* talent-loaded they are until they brought on Cesc Fabregas, and I read that he's the captain of Arsenal. I mean, holy shit. Arsenal's captain isn't good enough to make Spain's starting 11?

The commentator was pretty quick to criticize the play of Fernando Torres, but I thought he was instrumental in setting up that first goal by David Villa. Give him a break, even ignoring the fact that he's not 100% healthy, even the most elite players can look quite average when playing on an all star team.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

Modax wrote:The commentator was pretty quick to criticize the play of Fernando Torres,
That commentator then is either a Manc of a moron but wait! I repeat myself! :wink:
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by weemadando »

Crown wrote:
weemadando wrote:5) Get rid of offside.
I have to agree with everyone else; offside is fine learn to play.
There was a reason it was the last thing on that list. I brought up this point because I saw what happened in hockey when offside was removed - and as I mentioned it wasn't the gamechanger everyone thought it would be. It's something that down the line I think could make an interesting trial in football, but things like video review are many orders of magnitude more important.

Korgeta wrote:Number 5 is a bad idea, the offside rule is there to stop the game becomming just a game of long ball tactics. Football is entirely different to field hockey where other then size in pitch, in field hockey you cannot raise the ball (or in a way dangerous to the other player) in football, you can raise the ball as high as you like. So you can volley the ball in the air, straight to players within the penalty area. I can't see it workable for football and it's certinely not what anyone watching football want to see.
Watch some international level field hockey and you'll see flicks (raised balls) all the damn time as a long-pass method. And football is really no different - it's just in that case, if you loft the ball where someone's head is near it, they'll just deflect it to one of their team, rather than going down with a black eye. The long ball and bigger pitch thing also means that there is more chance of the linesmen being caught out of position to make an offside call - though thankfully there haven't been many bad offside calls in this WC.

And as I said in my original post - in hockey, everyone also expected it to turn into "one guy camps out at the net and waits for a long-pass or flick". But it turns out, that by doing that, you lose a player on the open field and generally would lose the game unless your other players can completely outclass the opponent.

As for tactics in football, it has a positive and negative effect - there's less gain to be had by having defenders play forward for the offside trap and thus leave the goalie alone should it fail (or an offside call be missed), but as a counter, breaking through that offside trap leads to some of the best moments in football.

It's one of those things that could be trialled years down the road and just see what happens - but it's certainly not something that is a "THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES" change.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Crown »

weemadando wrote:
Crown wrote:
weemadando wrote:5) Get rid of offside.
I have to agree with everyone else; offside is fine learn to play.
There was a reason it was the last thing on that list. I brought up this point because I saw what happened in hockey when offside was removed - and as I mentioned it wasn't the gamechanger everyone thought it would be. It's something that down the line I think could make an interesting trial in football, but things like video review are many orders of magnitude more important.
The offside trap is one of the tools that a skilled defense can use to shackle centre forwards. Conversely watching a skilled centre forward (read Torres) completely and utterly unlocking the offside trap from two centre backs (read Vidic and Ferdinand) is one of the most gratifying moments in football.

Moreover, the presence of offside is what allows one team to dictate 'the line' of play, how high up the pitch they will be, how much they will be pressing, and how compact the game will be.

I say again; offside is fine, learn to play.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Master of Ossus »

weemadando wrote:There was a reason it was the last thing on that list. I brought up this point because I saw what happened in hockey when offside was removed - and as I mentioned it wasn't the gamechanger everyone thought it would be. It's something that down the line I think could make an interesting trial in football, but things like video review are many orders of magnitude more important.
Offside was never removed from hockey. It was slightly modified to allow players to "touch-up." The two-line pass was removed at the same time, as part of the NHL's rule changes following the most recent lock-out.

For the record, I like the offside rule being in soccer, but they have to change their interpretation of the rule. It's just ridiculous to expect AR's to judge offside based on the furthest forward point on relevant players that can play the ball. It should just be called by the torso (or, equivalently, the furthest forward shoulder). That's easy to see, easy to judge, and doesn't move back and forth nearly as much as individual players' feet while running (or even heads, as was relevant in the Italy-Slovakia game). That interpretation is just ridiculous, conflicts with what everyone thinks of when they hear "offside" because when they're asked if players are ofside or not they always just judge by the torso, and is brutal on assistant referees who are stuck trying to monitor it.

Incidentally, I was kind of rooting for Japan yesterday because I thought they were underdogs, but damn are they a dirty team. They go at people late, constantly (think of what Mexico does inside of 5 minutes, but without quite as much force, and continuously throughout the match), and then they dive. All the time. They don't do the "rolling in agony" thing, but if you touch them they will fall down. Ball is right there? Ball is nowhere close to you? Doesn't matter. They'll flop like fish in a sushi restaurant. They must be absolutely infuriating to play against--particularly because their free kicks are lethal judging by what I saw yesterday. Honda's shot probably should've been stopped (the goalkeeper got a little wrong-footed and VERY nearly stopped it, anyway), but you've still got to respect a team that puts in two free kicks in the same game from 30+ yards. So basically they're cheap-shot artists who flop and then are very dangerous on the ensuing free kicks. In fairness, the two shots they scored on were earned by legitimate fouls, but teams that play them from now on will have to have chats about the Japanese tactics and be prepared for it.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Modax »

Master of Ossus wrote:Offside was never removed from hockey. It was slightly modified to allow players to "touch-up." The two-line pass was removed at the same time, as part of the NHL's rule changes following the most recent lock-out.
He was talking about field hockey, where (apparently) the offside rule was completely removed. (in North America 'hockey' refers almost exclusively to ice hockey; field hockey is extremely obscure and virtually unknown)

Now, I don't have a problem with the way football is set up. But, as a Canadian and relative outsider to the game, I don't think it would be such a bad idea for international football to try out a reformed off-side system similar to what is used in ice hockey.

Basically, you would add two additional lines onto the football pitch, which would define each team's defensive zone. An attacker is offside if he enters the other team's defensive zone ahead of the ball. Once the ball has been brought into the defensive zone, the attackers can go anywhere they like without being offside. If the defenders are out of position at this point, too bad. When the defenders remove the ball from their defensive zone, the attackers have to withdraw from it until they regain control over the ball and advance it into the zone once again.

That way it would be easier for the players to tell that they are off side: they just have to look at where they are in relation to the defensive zone line. Plus it gets rid of "he was just ever so slightly past the last defender on that rush so its no goal."

I'm not really complaining, I'm just saying it would be an alternative worth considering when you're talking about reforming football/soccer

Edit: if you are at all interested, here is a example of a beautiful ice hockey goal that would be an off-side play if it were football.

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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Lusankya »

It's worth noting that when they removed offside from hockey, they added a goal circle, and goals can only be scored from within there. Sort of the equivalent of saying that soccer goals could only be scored from within the penalty zone.
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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Master of Ossus »

Crown wrote:I'm happy Spain are winning, but I hope that Chile go through, this is a great football match!

EDIT :: Chile are excellent, but in-disciplined! Estrada got hard done by with that send off, but then again he was lucky to not get his second yellow for the tackle against Ineista. So far, if they can take the slightly late tackles out of their game, they would have Spain on the ropes, who for large periods of the first half looked shell shocked that they didn't have possession of the ball.

:shock:
Fuck Spain.

Fernando Torres, you are a Keita-class pussy.

You can't see it in this video, but that fall severed his brain stem. Fortunately, he was able to heal in about 45 seconds and finish the match.

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Re: FIFA World Cup Thread

Post by Questor »

Master of Ossus wrote:Fuck Spain.

Fernando Torres, you are a Keita-class pussy.

You can't see it in this video, but that fall severed his brain stem. Fortunately, he was able to heal in about 45 seconds and finish the match.
Exactly where was the ref that would make that look like anything other than bad acting?
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