Ashcroft proposes vast new surveillance powers

[Enlightenment]

You're a communard basing your argument on an unsupported proposal which was picked up by an unreputable news agency and hasn't be confirmed.

WTF is a 'communard?'

By what stretch of your imagination is my argument 'based' entirely on Asscroft's latest proposals to invalidate the US Bill of Rights?

[Peregrin Toker]

Big Brother is here to help you.

I still cannot believe they chose the Illuminati logo, what next? Rename the FBI the Thought-Police?! Giant pyramids to be built in every city?

Actually, the pyramid with the cyclopean eye is not the symbol of the Illuminati, but of the Freemasons. While the Freemasons and the Illuminati certainly are similar to each other and probably affliated, they are different from each other. (Well, OFFICIALLY they're both independent of other secret societies)

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Fuck Asscroft. He's a Fundie Fascist of the highest order. When he was Governor of Missouri, he actually banned DRINKING and DANCING!!! IN AMERICA?!?! WTF????

If Bush loses in 2004, the best part about it will be JA getting tossed out of Washington on his self-righteous, meddling, Christian ass.

He did? Do you have more information on that? Any sensible person knows prohibition didn't work.

[neoolong]

Fuck Asscroft. He's a Fundie Fascist of the highest order. When he was Governor of Missouri, he actually banned DRINKING and DANCING!!! IN AMERICA?!?! WTF????

If Bush loses in 2004, the best part about it will be JA getting tossed out of Washington on his self-righteous, meddling, Christian ass.

He did? Do you have more information on that? Any sensible person knows prohibition didn't work.

Banning dancing? That never works. Damn it, has nobody seen Footloose?

[weemadando]

Big Brother is here to help you.

I still cannot believe they chose the Illuminati logo, what next? Rename the FBI the Thought-Police?! Giant pyramids to be built in every city?

Actually, the pyramid with the cyclopean eye is not the symbol of the Illuminati, but of the Freemasons. While the Freemasons and the Illuminati certainly are similar to each other and probably affliated, they are different from each other. (Well, OFFICIALLY they're both independent of other secret societies)

It doesn't matter citizen. Please report to the Department of Love for debriefing in room 101.

[Durandal]

I wonder when we'll start seeing "Re-Neducation" centers pop up.

[Falcon]

Unfortunately the exact same thing, or worse, would have happened with the biggest left wing scumbag in office. They are always wanting to do that kind of stuff without cause, just imagine if they actually had an excuse for a change! (if you want examples just look a the camera systems the proposed, the national ID program, etc...)

stuff, you know what it was.

Indeed, and what I said is that any other adminstration would do exactly what the current one is doing, or worse. Besides which, you don't dismiss any affront to liberity just because a worse one comes along.

[Edi]

Falcon, either answer the points brought against you or shut up. You had it pointed out in detail why those things you see as an affront to liberty (surveillance cameras in public places and ID cards) in fact are not in any way significant, and you completely ignore it. Moron.

Like Mike already pointed out to me, seems that political debate in your country consists of red herrings instead of addressing the issue, and here that issue is definitely not what some other administration would perhaps have done, but what the current one has done and is doing right now.

Edi

[Darth Wong]

I like the way Falcon refused to quote the text of my reply in his "rebuttal", and instead replaced it with "stuff, you know what it was", so he can completely ignore the point. It's always gratifying to see that your opponent won't even put up a PRETENSE of debating rationally.

[Edi]

Did we really expect anything else?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You're a communard basing your argument on an unsupported proposal which was picked up by an unreputable news agency and hasn't be confirmed.

WTF is a 'communard?'

By what stretch of your imagination is my argument 'based' entirely on Asscroft's latest proposals to invalidate the US Bill of Rights?

Pigin French for Communist. It seemed appropriate at the time.

And, it appeared it was in that case, though obviously your opposition is more complete than that.

I'm really not concerned about the laws currently enacted. They're not a big deal. This would be, but this may be leftist propaganda, something to be destroyed in committee (I do want Ashcroft gone, but I have faith in the checks and balances of our Constitution to contain him while he exists), or something that will be voted down outright, or even annihilated by the Justice Department its self.

My real concern is the secret appeals court in which the government can have one government lawyer argue both sides of the case, and the entire record kept sealed. That is disturbing, because it destroys the judicial process. That has potential to become a modern Star Chamber, and I'd like to see it abolished and replaced in a constitutional amendment by an elected College of Censors, which has additional powers of certain other things of similiar nature, those powers then being removed from the range of certain agencies or committees. Incidently, that court is not an innovation of the Bush Family but rather Seventies post-Watergate hysteria.

[Illuminatus Primus]

All this begs the question: what DRIVES Ashcroft to try to pass such legislation?

He's a Republican. Nothing more needs to be said; they're all fascist shithooks.

Is everything you say a stupidass generalization? Jesus Christ that's all you ever say in any debate.

[salm]

<Nelson>HAAAHAAA!!!</Nelson>

[Sienthal]

Oh! Oh! Goin on muh sig,

[Captain Kruger]

Like I said, he's a Fundie Fascist. He's one of many Christian American politicians who don't believe in the separation of church and state. He'd love to turn our country into a Christian Theocracy. If that were ever to happen, we'd be much more of a threat to the world than those Muslims. *shudder*

Now I don't agree with the Patriot Act or the Total Information Agency, or any of this other stuff thats been coming out of the Bush administration. However, to suggest that Ashcroft specifically is doing it because hes a 'christian fundy' is simply stupid, I hope you're joking.

Time for some new glasses, Falcon. I said Fundie Fascist, not Fundie in general. A Fundie Fascist is someone who forces his religious beliefs on people who don’t want them through whatever power he possesses, such as some asshole who bans drinking and dancing in an American State. Try reading before responding.

On a slightly related note, I'd have to say I miss the Cold War. I don't like American autonomy of military power. I don't agree with all these cries of imperialism because of our position on Iraq, but that doesn't mean we won't go down a very dark path one day if someone else in the world doesn't have the muscle to say "hey, wait a minute". If Fundie Christianity were to increase its hold on future generations of Americans, we could easily end up with a President like Asscroft.

You miss a bunch of mass murdering tyrannical brutes? What is that? Why its the last bit of crediability you had just flushing down the drain

Credibility with who? You? *hysterical laughter* Quite an ignorant thing to proclaim on a board where you don’t appear to have a single ally.

Do I miss the Communist brutes? Of course not, you idiot. I was talking about the stability the Cold War brought to the world. Everybody kept everybody else in check. Now what do we have? What is the result of our Cold War victory? Universal peace? No. Instead we have a powder keg that’s gonna blow any moment.

Take a look around you and open your eyes. During the Cold War, we had an entire half of Europe with us and dedicated to stopping the murdering tyrannical brutes you speak of if they tried to widen their influence. The people in Eastern Europe would, if war had started, quite likely tried to rise up and help us fight against their oppressors.

Today, when confronting the same type of tyrant psychopath, we have to wine and dine and kiss the ass of the same French and Germans we protected for half a century. The bastards are even going so far as to refuse to protect a fellow NATO member who has asked for help.

Explain to me again how exactly the current situation is better?

[Captain Kruger]

He's a Republican. Nothing more needs to be said; they're all fascist shithooks.

Oh great. American partisanship rears its butt-ugly head on SD.net.

Was Abraham Lincoln, the man who freed the slaves, a fascist shithook?

And what exactly is so wonderful about the Democrats, who insist on handing out free money and support to whiny-ass lazy people who don’t want to work, especially when it’s at the expense of the taxpayers who DO work for a living?

[Captain Kruger]

Fuck Asscroft. He's a Fundie Fascist of the highest order. When he was Governor of Missouri, he actually banned DRINKING and DANCING!!! IN AMERICA?!?! WTF????

If Bush loses in 2004, the best part about it will be JA getting tossed out of Washington on his self-righteous, meddling, Christian ass.

He did? Do you have more information on that? Any sensible person knows prohibition didn't work.

I saw it on a CNN special about Asscroft. It didn’t elaborate on how effective the ban was, although I imagine it couldn’t have gone over too well. Missouri is a fairly conservative State I believe, but not THAT friggin’ conservative.