Is Raoul Duke, Jr an idiotic, illogical moron?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-10 11:34pm

Stravo wrote:Guys...I don't like to inject myself into these things, but come on. You're all ganging up on this guy for postulating stupid tactics in an engagement??? Let's leave it be, stop gang raping him and let it be. This is getting a tad childish.

He is NOT darkstar, he desreved this and so much more. He is not Arminus...he deserved to watch as his donkey was raped. This is not Azeron who deserved every solitary flame he got.

I have been reading this thread from the begining tonight and its just ugly at this point. Let it be folks...

Did you see his comments in the "Does God Exist" thread? There was a period there when he literally went on for about four pages with a pure Darkstar-style Wall of Ignorance(TM), repeating the same idea over and over and completely ignoring the rebuttal. He's not as fucked-up as those other people you mentioned, but then again, I don't think I've been that hard on him in this thread either.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-10 11:38pm

NO ONE IS AS FUCKED UP AS DARKSTAR. I'm not even sure TOWNMBS was. During my earlier correspondences with DarkStar, I thought he was just a clone of Loser099, but soon I came to realize that he was a whole new breed of troll. A super-troll, who could never be killed by any craft we here possess.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-10 11:45pm

Master of Ossus wrote:NO ONE IS AS FUCKED UP AS DARKSTAR. I'm not even sure TOWNMBS was. During my earlier correspondences with DarkStar, I thought he was just a clone of Loser099, but soon I came to realize that he was a whole new breed of troll. A super-troll, who could never be killed by any craft we here possess.

He is a fundamentalist Trekkie. I mean that in all sincerity; I believe that he combined the dogged determination and religious zealotry of a Christian or Muslim fundamentalist with the pseudoscience of a typical Trekkie. The resulting cross-breed results in Darkstar.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-10 11:48pm

Darth Wong wrote: He is a fundamentalist Trekkie. I mean that in all sincerity; I believe that he combined the dogged determination and religious zealotry of a Christian or Muslim fundamentalist with the pseudoscience of a typical Trekkie. The resulting cross-breed results in Darkstar.

Oh, dear God no!

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-10-10 11:49pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:NO ONE IS AS FUCKED UP AS DARKSTAR. I'm not even sure TOWNMBS was. During my earlier correspondences with DarkStar, I thought he was just a clone of Loser099, but soon I came to realize that he was a whole new breed of troll. A super-troll, who could never be killed by any craft we here possess.
He is a fundamentalist Trekkie. I mean that in all sincerity; I believe that he combined the dogged determination and religious zealotry of a Christian or Muslim fundamentalist with the pseudoscience of a typical Trekkie. The resulting cross-breed results in Darkstar.

Wong, I truly believe that he is not well in the head. It's not a joke. I read his last submission and I could not believe the UTTER BULLSHIT. It was worse than the turd I left in the bowl tonight. I have NO IDEA how you have the patience to deal with this without tearing your eyes out so you don;t read another word from his twisted mind. Is he even reading your posts and not just picking them apart and repeating his same shit arguments over again. The Wall of Ignorance may be full blown dementia.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-10-10 11:56pm

Ah, the macho moron concept. Good idea. Always try to ensure the worst possible treatment of your civilian populace after your government falls.

It is an idealistic concept that would only work if every Fed citizen refused to surrender or even stop fighting. If they were informed that the Empire tortures its prisoners, they would probably rather die fighting than be humiliated for who-knows-how-long in an Imperial Detention Center. I know I would choose to die fighting rather than be robbed of my human dignity and then eventually die.

BTW, what makes you think the Empire always tortures its prisoners?

The Empire usually tortured and/or mistreated their prisoners in the movies. Captain Antilles was strangled to death. Leia was interrogated by what I understand to be various methods, including the use of an interrogation droid. Han Solo was put on a scan grid (YOUCH!). They tested to see if life forms could survive being frozen in carbonite on Han Solo. Luke was electrocuted. Isn't that evidence enough? Hey, you even put in your fan fiction the Empire torturing its prisoners on a regular basis to extract information. Why did you include that, if the Empire doesn't do so? They would undoubtedly torture the Feds for information, or even pull an Alderaan and threaten to destroy all life on planets if they refused to give information. Not only that, but you can NEVER trust the Empire. Look at what they did to Alderaan, even after they got the information they needed. Look at how they screwed over Lando. This just goes to show that after they torture their prisoners and get their information, they'll do whatever the hell they want with them, such as continuing to torture them and then killing them. Yeah, I think I'll surrender knowing that.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2002-10-11 02:26am

While certainly not as bad as Darkstar (who makes me wonder if people are only as sane as they wish to be), Raoul Duke Jr often has a similar style to his in many regards. It's more like a sieve. When he can't provide a quote that might hopefully back him up, he sorts out all the retorts that can't be aknowledged at face value, leaving him with something like "...therefore your point is stupid." Which can then be attacked by emphasizing prersentation over content. Not to mention those little gem here and there that make him sound either completely full of himself or borderline schitzoid.

Despite what it may look like on first glance, I really do hate baseless insults, but I hate baseless self-praise even more. So he was struck blind in one eye. So he looks like Odin. So he thinks his humor is unconventional, and people say he's either a genius or an idiot. So what, should I find some insight in this schlok? None of this has anything to do with anything. Someone really needs to get it into Rodger's skull that logic is meant to give people something to analyze, rather than immediately assuming the speaker is either a brilliant Wielder of Eloquence or a Nazi Fucktard and going from there. I'm sorry about the rant but I'm still pissed that he has the audacity to act like politeness will get him out of any situation.

Stravo wrote:It was worse than the turd I left in the bowl tonight.

Um... you do realize that you're supposed to flush those things... before you leave the can, right?

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2002-10-11 03:29am

I WILL RIP YUOR ASES OF COLLAGE BABY FASES!!!!111111

Nick · Post by **Nick** » 2002-10-11 09:27am

Outside a professional context (and occasionally even in a professional context), I'd always prefer someone who is ignorant or uncertain, but demonstrates a willingness to learn, over the informed person who is convinced there is nothing else they need to know.

What harm does it cause us to cut the guy some slack?

Raoul CAN be reasoned with - his communication skills are sometimes lacking (but who here has never been part of an argument that turned out to be based on a misunderstanding?), he comes up with silly ideas (but one of the best things about SD.net is that it is a good place to get your ideas checked for logical flaws and general stupidity - why do you think I started that thread about marketable parenting licenses?), and he's a little irritated (IMO, understandably) about getting lumped with the VI title and the subsequent ongoing character assassination.

Yes, ridiculing the likes of Darkstar, or Azeron, or Arminius is pure entertainment - because nothing else penetrates their skulls, so why are insults going to be any different? Nothing is likely to have any effect, so pretty much anything goes.

Here's a chance to show a little grace and encouragement for someone who is at least trying to learn something. And what are most of you doing with it?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-11 05:48pm

Nick wrote: Raoul CAN be reasoned with - his communication skills are sometimes lacking (but who here has never been part of an argument that turned out to be based on a misunderstanding?), he comes up with silly ideas (but one of the best things about SD.net is that it is a good place to get your ideas checked for logical flaws and general stupidity - why do you think I started that thread about marketable parenting licenses?), and he's a little irritated (IMO, understandably) about getting lumped with the VI title and the subsequent ongoing character assassination.

Yes, ridiculing the likes of Darkstar, or Azeron, or Arminius is pure entertainment - because nothing else penetrates their skulls, so why are insults going to be any different? Nothing is likely to have any effect, so pretty much anything goes.

Here's a chance to show a little grace and encouragement for someone who is at least trying to learn something. And what are most of you doing with it?

I basically agree with your points, but sometimes he does ignore rebuttals. Look at how many times I had to try to explain to him that circular logic was not logical. Then Darth Wong stepped in and told him that circular logic was not logical, and then he repeated his request to get information on WHY circular logic was never logical. That is not demonstrating an ability to be reasoned with.

What makes him better than DarkStar is that he does not ARGUE with explanations of why he is wrong. Arminius never made any points. Azeron just seems so blatantly offensive that everyone (including KELLY), gets mad at him. Duke is not like that at all. HE makes stupid points, but he is also not so argumentative that he refuses to acknowledge other points of view, and evidence, most of the time.

Ha Lire · Post by **Ha Lire** » 2002-10-12 06:35pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
Stravo wrote:It was worse than the turd I left in the bowl tonight.
Um... you do realize that you're supposed to flush those things... before you leave the can, right?

You stand up before ya flush. It lets you look upon what you've made with pride(or disgust) and then flush, all the while keeping your ass dry.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-10-12 09:23pm

While his hate mail is incredibly stupid, he seems to have improved since then and has shown a willingness to learn. To me the latter fact directly contradicts the term idiot.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » 2002-10-13 09:30am

Master of Ossus wrote: Look at how many times I had to try to explain to him that circular logic was not logical. Then Darth Wong stepped in and told him that circular logic was not logical, and then he repeated his request to get information on WHY circular logic was never logical. That is not demonstrating an ability to be reasoned with.

The impression I got with that was that he was having trouble with the idea of "X is Y, by the definition of X". (Actually, to be accurate, at the time I thought he was a bloody idiot who couldn't spot his nose in front of his face - now, though, I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt)

At first glance, the above can seem like a circular argument (particularly when 'X is Y' is explicitly part of the definition). Of course, it isn't really circular - the definition of X is one of your premises, and all you are trying to do is clarify what that definition is.

This is why 'term definition' argument are generally pointless - unless you can agree on a common definition of the term, it's hard to get anywhere. In fact, the available arguments in a term definition debate are usually limited to appealing to a legitimate authority (such as a dictionary), or appealing to popularity (by determining how most people use the term, either directly through surveys, or indirectly through inductive reasoning).

Consequently, it is sometimes worthwhile to take a step back and look at an argument to see if the reason you are arguing is because each side is using the same term to mean something different - and this can be rather hard to spot. (For example, I had an extended argument with Mike Wong that lasted until he pointed out that the definition I was using for 'creationist' was so broad as to be practically useless. Once I conceded the point, and accepted his definition of the term, I basically came around to his point of view).

For terms that one side think are clearly defined (like 'circular logic'), but the other side don't understand. . . it can be really hard to spot, because it is difficult to believe anyone doesn't know the right definition.

This is why I'd say Azeron displayed a village idiot mentality, but Raoul doesn't. Once Raoul was finally clear on the definition, he accepted that yes, a circular argument is indeed illogical by definition. Azeron, on the other hand, had it explained to him in itsy bitsy detail (including a proper argument demonstrating the common meaning of the term 'logic' on these forums), and still failed to get it.

*shrug* In the end though, it doesn't matter too much whether or not any of us think Raoul deserves the "Village Idiot" title - it's a question of whether or not Mike feels the BBS is better served having Raoul marked as a Village Idiot, or whether it is better to give him a second chance. The rest of us can have our opinions, but in the end it is Mike's call

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-13 12:44pm

I don't think that was what was going on. He didn't even seem to react to what I was posting, although everyone is quite correct in that he has demonstrated an ability to learn which separates him greatly from the worst of the VI's.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-13 12:46pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I don't think that was what was going on. He didn't even seem to react to what I was posting, although everyone is quite correct in that he has demonstrated an ability to learn which separates him greatly from the worst of the VI's.

Basically his problem is ignorance rather than geniune idiocy. He doesn't know these things yet and consequently doesn't think it through. But once things have been pointed out he learns quickly enough.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-13 04:08pm

Nick wrote:*shrug* In the end though, it doesn't matter too much whether or not any of us think Raoul deserves the "Village Idiot" title - it's a question of whether or not Mike feels the BBS is better served having Raoul marked as a Village Idiot, or whether it is better to give him a second chance. The rest of us can have our opinions, but in the end it is Mike's call

Every Village Idiot has the second chance. As I say on the shit list, if a VI mends his ways and I receive word that the board consensus is to take him off the list, I'll take him off the list.

Australopithicus · Post by **Australopithicus** » 2002-10-13 04:56pm

I guess that doesn't cover fundie morons like me, does it Mike?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-13 04:58pm

Australopithicus wrote:I guess that doesn't cover fundie morons like me, does it Mike?

Not unless, you de-stupid yourself.

Australopithicus · Post by **Australopithicus** » 2002-10-13 04:59pm

I didn't think so.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-13 05:03pm

Australopithicus wrote:I didn't think so.

Then I guess you'll have to live with it.

Australopithicus · Post by **Australopithicus** » 2002-10-13 05:08pm

I guess I will. Unless I re - enter under the name George Bush and make my title 'presidential moron'.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » 2002-10-14 06:45am

Darth Wong wrote:Every Village Idiot has the second chance. As I say on the shit list, if a VI mends his ways and I receive word that the board consensus is to take him off the list, I'll take him off the list.

Looks at poll on this thread. . .

Hmm, 18 to 10. I think you still have some work to do Raoul

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Is Raoul Duke, Jr an idiotic, illogical moron?

Is Raoul Duke, Jr a moron?