the klingons VS modern earth

[D.Turtle]

I don't watch a lot of Trek, but I do know the following:
Natural Stone formations blocked the use of transporters.
If NATURAL rock formations can stop the use of transporters, I am quite sure that modern jammers could block transporters.

neoolong: I am supposing that we know everything from the different Trek series (as it is modern earth, and modern earth knows about trek :p )

Sea Skimmer: ICBMs can't reach orbit?
Then what is the use of MIRVs?
Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicles?

From http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercont ... ic_missile:
Intercontinental ballistic missiles or ICBM's are long-range missiles using a ballistic trajectory involving a significant ascent and descent including suborbital and partial orbital trajectories (emphasis mine)

[D.Turtle]

Forgot to mention:
I think they CAN reach orbit, however I don't know how well they could be aimed at the Klingon ships (and the Klingons could just fly away, so...)
Thats why my plan (or scenario) doesn't require me to be able to hit their ships in orbit.

Also, Earth only has to repulse an invasion, it doesn't have to destroy all Klingon forces. And the Klingons want Earth INTACT, they don't want to destroy everything.

[Darth Wong]

Apart from the fact that Voyager used her transporters in orbit of - 1996 earth, sorry please try again

Gotta love those black/white fallacies. Nobody said the Earth's web of radiation was so pervasive that it effectively acted as a complete planetary shield.

But there are many, many places on Earth where they would be unable to transport, based on precedent. And once we figured that out, we would quickly learn how to produce active jammers that lock them out further. For that matter, modern radar jammers might even work.

[Sea Skimmer]

I don't watch a lot of Trek, but I do know the following:
Natural Stone formations blocked the use of transporters.
If NATURAL rock formations can stop the use of transporters, I am quite sure that modern jammers could block transporters.

neoolong: I am supposing that we know everything from the different Trek series (as it is modern earth, and modern earth knows about trek :p )

Sea Skimmer: ICBMs can't reach orbit?
Then what is the use of MIRVs?
Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicles?

From http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercont ... tic_missilIntercontinental ballistic missiles or ICBM's are long-range missiles using a ballistic trajectory involving a significant ascent and descent including suborbital and partial orbital trajectories (emphasis mine)

Partial orbital trajectories can only be used by FOBS missiles, Which as I pointed out don't exist anymore and are very impratical. Many sites just group them with ICBM's for simplicity.

ICBM warheads do reach space and thast where the RV's are release, there just not high or fast enough for orbit, thus the reentry part.

[TheDarkling]

I'd place money on Earths massive amount of communications related radiation working.

I read that as normal comms traffic can take out transporters (or their sensors) while we know that Voy can beam in and out of a city (LA I believe it was) therefore if a city isnt a problem the only place that will have more comm traffic is a dedicated comms area which the Klingons could easily take out from orbit (thus denying people the chance to put it together).

I have also shown that enough EM activity to block their sensors doesnt prevent beam down

[Guest]

I can easily imagine a scenario similar to Harry Turtledove's In the Balance WWII alternate history/science fiction series. The Klingons don't want to destroy Earth with an orbital bombardment. That being the case, they will be forced to land soldiers. There are plently of countries that would not have the ability to defeat the klingons with orbital fire support. Africa would fall pretty easily, for that matter, most of the 3rd world would. The more industrialized nations could probably fight the klingons to a standstill. The result would be a stalemate. The stalemate would be broken if the klingons could bring enough reinforcements to overwhelm the surviving nations of Earth. We could win if we could reverse engineer captured klingon technology.

The klingons have shown that they are willing to use disruptors if it is necessary. If they found that they were getting wasted by modern machine guns, they would use disruptors.

As far as blocking their transporters, I doubt any modern equipment could stop them from functioning. Do transporters operate on subspace technology? It that is the case, how could modern technology jam transporters? The only way to render transporters useless would be to build facilities protected under layers of minerals that block transporter signals. Either that or invent shields, which isn't realistic in a three year time span.

Either way, the klingons probably wouldn't defeat the US (Canada with US help), Europe, China, and Russia. With enough troops they could probably take most of the world though.

[Darth Yoshi]

Nobody said they couldn't beam down. Without reliable readings, though, it'd be like in Mike's scenario where the Feds try to rescue POWs. Their liable to materialized 20 ft. in the air and break a leg. That would put a damper on invasion.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

*Ahem* Pardon me if this has already been stated, as I only briefly browsed all the replies.

The forces of Earth would be annihilated and we would all be enslaved.

Before you flame, let me explain:

1) The sole remaining superpower, the United States, would be mostly destroyed before any kind of resistance could gather. The reason for this? Modern democracy.
At t - 3 years, the general populace would not even believe it.
At t-2 years, assuming some kind of evidence has been shown, Congress would begin to screw around. Donald Dumbsfeld would continue to lobby for a "smaller, more efficient military" (i.e., one that completely lacks guns larger than 5.56mm...) Congress would debate, argue, pass this bill, kill that bill, etc.
At t-1 years, Congress would begin to sober up. A little. They would pass a do-nothing bill to make it look like we were preparing for war. In the mean-time, the general American populace would be in a state of dissent, staging demonstrations and speeches about "Don't send our boys off to die!" and "Boo-hoo I'm a freakin' dumbass war serves no purpose!" (Even though it does, in this case the survival of our species).
- When the invasion begins, the US would be attacked first (if the klingons had any sense of strategy , anyways). Little would be done after territories and overseas bases were attacked. However, when an actual state is invaded, the USA would wisen up and fight to the death. Unfortunately, by this time it would be too late to stop the Klingons' attack (if it were well-executed)

2) The majority of the rest of the world would ignore this, and continue to kill each other over some stupid "We were here first" dispute or "Gimmie your oil" demand. Terrorism would most likely escalate in the chaos resulting from the US's fall.

3) The few remaining countries would either
- a) have anemic military capabilities and be unable to fight
or
- b) have the odds so stacked against them that there would be no way to win

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Wow. How Nationalistic.

You know there are other powerful military forces besides the US, right?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I am aware there are other countries with respectable militaries, Great Britain to name one. However, as I stated, these few countries would be against the entire klingon invasion force by themselves and be unable to win.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

By themselves?

Why? Why wouldn't everyone hit at relatively the same time?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

When I say by themselves, I mean those few countries' armies pooled together in an alliance. But we are talking about an entire planetary invasion force with superior technology and very Spartan philosophies.

[Lord of the Farce]

If the Klingon's main objective is to capture our modern day Earth with minimal damage to the planet, then it'll probably end up as something of a stalemate. While we've got nothing (as far as the general populous knows) that can pose a serious threat to the Klingon's space superiority, neither do their armed forces pose a serious threat to any group of half-way competent soldiers on our side, and even transporters wouldn't help tip the balance to the Klingons' favour that much... *cue cutscene of a soldier throwing a grenade at the foot of a group of blue shimmering*

[NecronLord]

We are royally screwed

Does anyone know the klingon for "Lock onto all radiation/chemical explosive signatures and initaite transport"?

[Mr Bean]

Does anyone know the klingon for "Lock onto all radiation/chemical explosive signatures and initaite transport"?

Ahh but they CAN'T transport through Radiation, And may I remind you the EM Field of an Ordionary Transformer is strong enough to block out "Supiror" UFP Transproters?

[Guest]

We're fucked in the UK, the SA80 would fall appart and the dumbass navy would sail their destroyers into rocks and break the fucking boat.

[TheDarkling]

Yes they cant beam past any radiation at all, in shape or form, even background radiation

[Guest]

If the Klingons transporters work (which I believe they probably would) they could simply transport defending human soldiers out of the battle or into containment cells. This wouldn't work on a large scale, but it could make the difference in an important battle.

[neoolong]

If the Klingons transporters work (which I believe they probably would) they could simply transport defending human soldiers out of the battle or into containment cells. This wouldn't work on a large scale, but it could make the difference in an important battle.

Have they ever done this before? It might go against there system of fighting and so even if they could, they might not.

[TheDarkling]

Simply beam a phton grande in at about 20 M above ground and once it hits the floor - Boom lots of injured troops.

Orbital bombardment of military base's and ship going vessels (mainly Aircraft carriers) will slow down the developed militaries from deploying to other parts of the world.

Taking out satellites limits intel gathering plus command and control then you simply mop up any large scale field units deployed with either transporter based tactics, orbital bombardment or shuttles going attack runs.

Stand up fighting will be crushed - the only way to go is resistance movements and the like which is ok unless the Klingons get brutal (what are the chances of that though?).

[Knife]

Oky doky, let's see we have 3 years warning. Weather or not the populace believes it or not the major goverments would start to build massive shelters underground for the population to minimize civilian casualties. Hopefully the major powers that be would commence to use modenrn day nuclear devices as mines either with some sort of radar proximity or remote detonation system and place in orbit using existing launch vehicles. All possible military forces that can be convinced of the threat would be built up and equipped as well as possible and as time allows.

As the attack nears, most communications would have to be rerouted to an alternative system other than the satcoms we now use. Since we know that a spacefaring civilization is invading us it does not take a huge leap of logic to think they might take out our satalite communications. Deploy and coordinate all allied forces using a centralized control somewhere like NORAD or a facility simular.

When the invasion begins, I don't see too much that we can do against the orbiting ships. If the nuclear mines work in any capacity, good but do not expect much. The ground battle is the important one, you can rule the sky's all you want but if you don't have troops on the ground you don't own that land. Every single example of Klingon infantry attacks I can think of are of Klingons using a WWI type strategy of rushing an opponent with weapons fire and then when up close, switching over to a bladded weapon in close combat. So keep a series of flexible and mobile defensive positions that can easily shift positions to form a line against witch the Klingons would attack. As they charge across the battlefield, employ the machineguns they way they were meant too. Large open field of fire with grazing fire on a enfilade target(long axis of the beaten zone coincides with the long axis of the target). If you lose personel from "transporter losses" well and good, shrug your shoulders and carry on Private. Disrupt enemy formations with mortars and artillery, and use the armor to box them in. Immeadiatly attack any ground istillation they try to set up and keep them on their ships. We can not destroy their ships, but after watching 7 seasons of DS9, they cann't take us on the ground. Establish militia's in urban enviroments as a civil defence force and a stop gap for the military forces. Do you realize how many people in America have guns, not to mention all of the other guns in the world.

[Mr Bean]

Yes they cant beam past any radiation at all, in shape or form, even background radiation

Don't Bullshit Darkling you know exact what I was talking about, Fact is regular Transporters are disrtubed by alot of things incudling EM Fields and Radation from an orgionary Transformer strength device

[Isolder74]

Yes they cant beam past any radiation at all, in shape or form, even background radiation

Don't Bullshit Darkling you know exact what I was talking about, Fact is regular Transporters are disrtubed by alot of things incudling EM Fields and Radation from an orgionary Transformer strength device

So theoretically, the Klingons could not beam into any of our cities, theoretically. Then of course Klingons wouldn't beam into our defensive positions 'cause that would be dishonorable.

[NecronLord]

Bean? the fact that they can beam into the SODDING TRANSPORTER ROOM should indicate that that is untrue.

[Guest]

The Klingons could also use their smaller Bird of Preys as close air support. In a DS9 episode we saw them strafe a shield ground base with their disruptors. Modern jet fighters wouldn't have a chance against them unless they were close enough and willing to fire nuclear missiles at the Klingons. Even then, there is no guarantee that they would be able to hit the Bird of Prey's before they moved out of range.

The more I think about it, the more likely it is that the Klingons would eventually win. They would need to bring over a lot of ground troops and ships to do it though. Holding the territory once they have captured it from resistance forces may prove to be more difficult than actually conquering it though.

The first moments of the invasion are really going to be critical. From ST IV we learn that as long as the Bird of Preys remain cloaked, modern Earth cannot detect them. (this isn't surprising considering that future sensors have difficulty detecting cloaked ships). The klingons could infiltrate soldiers and position their warships to simultaneously strike sensitve C&C structures and military bases. That first strike could immediately cripple any coordinated effort to resist the klingons on a world-wide scale. They could mop up any organized resistance after that.

The more appropriate question is how much military force will the klingons need to conquer modern day Earth and control it effectively?