WOTW Reviews All Good

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2005-07-01 11:25pm

In the 54 version, with the hovering "walkers", the flying-wing airplane trying to nuke the "walkers" was very fucking amazing. I saw that old movie years ago, it rocked.

Neway, I saw WotW the other day and later, I'm gonna watch it again. Needless to say, I love it. Better than ROTS, yo!

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-07-02 01:52am

Jade Falcon wrote:Strangely enough, I remember similiar thoughts about the ending of the Tim Burton version of Planet of the Apes. If you'd ever read the book of POTA, you'd know it was pretty close to the book ending, while Heston's version was a classic, the Burton version was closer.

Um, not quite:

In Les Planete des Singe, the human cosmonaut returns to an Earth 1600 years in his future in which the apes displaced humanity as happened on Soror because Man stagnated and gradually lost his intelligence —which followed on the entire theme of the novel. Tim Burton's bullshit version of POTA ends with Mark Wahlberg returning to a time-altered 20th century Earth —which came out of nowhere except maybe Burton's ass because it had no connection to anything which actually occurred in the plot.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-07-02 02:21am

RedImperator wrote:
Davis 51 wrote:Meh, the last third was OK. The ending was a real Deus Ex Machina.
The rest of it, spectacular!
Um, you are aware that's also how the novel, the radio play, and the 1954 movie ended, right?

You know what, you're right (I've seen the 1954 movie, although I haven't seen this new remake yet). However, that doesn't change the fact that it's an almost incomprehensibly stupid ending. I have always felt that the worst thing about the original 1954 movie was the dumb-ass ending, and to be quite honest, I was hoping that Spielberg would come up with something truly daring and retool the ending for the remake. So I'm disappointed to hear that he did not.

If this film were not a remake of a "classic", the film critics would be tripping over themselves in their haste to blast the living fuck out of it for the dumbshit ending. But instead, thanks to the "you can't be a legitimate film critic if you don't like movies that were popular a long time ago" rule, they won't. I'm disappointed but not surprised.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-07-02 04:43am

Vympel wrote:I have no desire to see this film. The previews turned me off bigtime- if the movie is anything like the previews, 3/4 of the movie will be that annoying little blond shit screaming and looking scared.

Oh, she was. One of the worst parts of the entire move was having the fucking young girl as a major character. She didnt do anything, just was a poorly handled plot device to make things harder for the other main characters.

The major characters had a serious case of stupiditis towards the end.

And the real Deus Ex Machina of the movie wasnt how the aliens died, but the moronically stupid teenaged son surviving.

Sure go running into a line of people getting annihilated, and somehow survive it without a scratch and beat father to the city!

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-07-02 05:10am

That pissed me off, the son surviving and all. I mean, WHERE THE FUCK DID THAT COME FROM!? My only possible guess would be that he was taken in by one of those walker thingies, and the aliens died before he could be used as fertilizer. What I really don't get is, a race of super-advanced alien peoples have been planning this invasion since the beginning, and they didn't know a goddamned thing about bacteria?

I think it would have been cooler if it turned out the way to kill those things was from the inside, like the main character guy did that one time... after all, they did have a vague mention of the japanese taking those things down, and kamikazes seem like a decent way to do what he did.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-07-02 10:23am

I saw it yesterday, and I loved all of it except the ending. Not the 'aliens dying of bacteria' ending, even if it is somewhat stupid (these advanced aliens have no experience in their history with contamination by unknown pathogens), but the 'family reunion' ending. Aside from the son miraculously appearing in spite of running head on into the suicidal military assault (which someone already mentioned) what about the parents and his ex-wife and her husband being there, and looking almost unscratched (along with their home) in spite of the fact that Boston was probably rampaged by these things? I'm curious why Spielberg chose to throw that in there; even for a "hollywood" ending, it's pretty cheesy.

What I particularily liked were the three main characters, and their changing reactions, such as Cruise's advancement from basically barely-ordered panic, to denial, to panic-running and clutching, to finally focus; the girl, who at the beginning seems almost a little more mature than her father, basically has the faux maturity shatter and disintegrate, to the point where she basically, when dragged up into the cage, is frozen; and the son, who seems to react more confidently than the father (and whom noticeably Fanning runs to for emotional support at the beginning), who sinks into anger and desire for payback. It was very interesting to watch, plus the almost tragic scene of them pushing through the crowd in the van.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-07-02 11:28am

It's not a remake of the '53 George Pal. It's an adaptation of the original novel and far closer to that since it actually has more of the novel elements (tripods, Red Weed, harvesting etc.). Yes, the ending can be seen as a deus ex machina, but it was meant to be the end from the beginning since I'm open to suggestions as to how you end the story in an alien defeat without a) it looking contrived like ID4 or Signs or b) the humans winning. I've thought about it and never got something satisfactory that didn't come off as lame. The Martians had eliminated disease many eons ago and the point is that while they planned and executed easily their invasion against humanity, they failed to account for something they'd conquered and never seen as a threat. That's what gives it the edge, that we were fucked if it weren't for the smallest things. It's somewhat closer again to the colonial days where the reverse happened, we introduced new diseases to other populations isolated from us like Tasmania and killed them off as we hunted too.

The George Pal movie has niggles mainly to do with the blatant Christian/anti-commie themes, but it is otherwise excellent. I, for one, am happy Spielberg didn't screw with the ending (pretty much all the reviews that are negative, and there are some, attack the ending solely). The appearance of the aliens is something I don't get and was done better in the book and '53 movie, but hell, he's got everything else right.

Make no mistake, critics have blasted it for the ending, but they're people that obviously threw the book in disgust at a wall when finishing it and totally missing the point or the great stuff before it ended.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2005-07-02 11:38am

I thought it was interesting that Spielberg attempted to set up the ending a little bit with the microscopic view at the begining that then pulls out until the viewer can see Earth as if it were microscopic.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2005-07-02 12:51pm

ggs wrote: Sure go running into a line of people getting annihilated, and somehow survive it without a scratch and beat father to the city!

I seem to recall him being a bit scorched and bloodied. Oh well, I'm going to see it again later today so I can check then.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-07-02 12:54pm

Tsyroc wrote:I thought it was interesting that Spielberg attempted to set up the ending a little bit with the microscopic view at the begining that then pulls out until the viewer can see Earth as if it were microscopic.

I think he was trying to make a point that the Aliens look upon us as if we were insects inhabiting a particularly good spot of dirt. I actually forgot about that until the end, but then the irony made sense, since the Aliens (who considered us insects, and the pestilence) exterminated us, only to be killed by an even smaller threat.

Out of curiousity, though, how well would terrestrial bacteria do in an alien lifeform? I say bacteria, because it seems like viruses would have a difficult time co-opting an alien cell, but the bacteria could potentially spread and cause death, particularly in an unprepared alien immune system.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-07-02 01:13pm

The whole point of the novel was to show that these higher beings had little problem with exterminating us as if they found an ant nest. If they regarded humans as nothing more than basic lifeforms to be removed or harvested, they obviously didn't give a shit about the microbes which they're long since seen to where they came from.

The political ideas being expressed where against colonialism which was rife with Europe finding all sorts of new places and exploiting them. At that time, Wells had heard of Tasmania and was getting sick of the "might makes right" thinking which still exists to this day. So since the superpower (the Empire) back then had no real resistance, he concocted an enemy that was too powerful and even more intelligent to reverse the roll. After all, if you see a being that is more like a cow or rodent pest to you in comparison, would you hesitate in removing it?

The book, however, differs in one detail I had hoped the movies would show. Wells, for all the hatred he had at the time of writing this novel (he loved writing how his town, which he disliked greatly, got pulverised) made it that we could at least try and stop them. The artillerymen and Thunder Child were able to take out some tripods, but were soon nullified. When your superweapons of the era don't last a minute thanks to Wells creating the laser/maser, you've lost already. The movies make the invaders invincible though with shields, but I can let that go.

That brings you to the ending. With the Red Weed "terraforming" (Martianforming?) the Earth, the military running away and people being harvested, all hope is lost. But because the aliens had been as arrogant as we had in many of our conquests, they overlooked the primitive microbes they hadn't had to deal with in ages and so all fell to them. That's the great irony. It's not a deus ex machina like the stupid ending to ID4 (which some can link however tenuously to TWOTW) or one where flag waving patriots win by "hope" (as if goodwill replaces superior hardware), it's a humbling ending for man to reflect on. There are people pissed at it for being a cop out, but it fits perfectly.

Guardsman Bass wrote: Out of curiousity, though, how well would terrestrial bacteria do in an alien lifeform? I say bacteria, because it seems like viruses would have a difficult time co-opting an alien cell, but the bacteria could potentially spread and cause death, particularly in an unprepared alien immune system.

It depends, but since bacteria and viruses etc. evolve far quicker than immune systems can, they would soon exploit the new lifeforms they came into contact with. Unless the invaders had whole new biology (not carbon or protein based etc.) which is very unlikely since they consumed our blood products, they'd be susceptible given time for the morbidities to spread and cause harm. The same happens on this planet since the British used this knowledge to take care of Native Americans using infected blankets that had pathogens on them that they had never come into contact with before and were nearly wiped out.

Despite my biology degree and love for microbes, I read this book and loved it long before I even looked at a bio-textbook. Only now do I fully appreciate the ending Wells was aiming for.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-07-02 04:40pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Despite my biology degree and love for microbes, I read this book and loved it long before I even looked at a bio-textbook. Only now do I fully appreciate the ending Wells was aiming for.

Only now, at the end, do you understand.

I'm going to try and see it tomorrow, but knowing my luck some shit'll come up and I won't be able too.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-07-02 06:41pm

The fact that the Martians have supposedly defeated disease does not mean they would forget the entire concept of microbial life (nor, for that matter, does it imply that they've eliminated all microbial life in their home environment; something which doesn't seem possible). It's still a retarded ending; the film works because you keep wondering "how the fuck are they going to get out of this", but at the end, they never really do. The Martians just self-destruct.

You ask how the film could have been ended in a way that wasn't stupid, and perhaps that's the problem. The setup is one that inherently has no plausible solution, so you have to go for a stupid one instead.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-07-02 06:58pm

An alternate solution seems quite simple to me: Everybody dies. After all, there's no realistic reason that humans should survive such an encounter. If we're all dead, movie's over.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-07-02 07:18pm

Darth Wong wrote:The fact that the Martians have supposedly defeated disease does not mean they would forget the entire concept of microbial life (nor, for that matter, does it imply that they've eliminated all microbial life in their home environment; something which doesn't seem possible). It's still a retarded ending; the film works because you keep wondering "how the fuck are they going to get out of this", but at the end, they never really do. The Martians just self-destruct.

You ask how the film could have been ended in a way that wasn't stupid, and perhaps that's the problem. The setup is one that inherently has no plausible solution, so you have to go for a stupid one instead.

You have to remember, when the book was written it was at a time when microbiology was still in its infancy as far as we're concerned. Wells was a pure scientist. You won't find anything there he didn't think through and see as plausible from the walking machines mechanism and ore refining process to laser and chemical weaponry. It was seen at the time that, one day, we may eradicate disease. That premise was used to highlight how advanced the Martians were over us (they needn't wipe out all microbes since we need them, just the pathogenic nasty ones).

It's stupid in that the Martians fucked up a perfect plan by overlooking something so small, which rubs salt in the wound for us. There was always the idea that they'd come back and do it right next time, but Wells hated sequels. Personally, I always liked the Jeff Wayne musical ending which sees a NASA mission to Mars at the end of the 20th century get cut off abruptly after green flashes are seen from the planet. Cue the second, victorious invasion...

The "everybody dies" scenario wouldn't work either. While it may have been okay in some stories, it flies totally against the point for this one which was to show humanity is not the biggest kid on the block. Having them nearly wiped out and then seeing how wrong they can be works better than everybody is incinerated or eaten. The ending will always be disputed, has been for over a century. But the journey leading up to the finale is what makes it since we are talking about the original alien invasion story here.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-07-02 08:13pm

I have to suspect that some of the Aliens survived. That their natural immune systems were enough to save them. Statisticaly it is possible.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-07-02 08:21pm

Could be so, you never really know. I haven't seen the new film yet, seeing it in a few hours, but the way they are here and have been for some time is odd. There could be a single fighting machine tripod with pilot left alive out there that goes into hiding again. Really, given the power of those things, it could singlehandedly take on the planet, albeit, slowly. I always assumed the original novel ended without full closure in that respect anyway. The Martian invasion surely can't have been their whole civilisation as with ID4, which I now recall had sequel rumours to the extent that the initial invasion was simply a scout party.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-07-02 08:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:The fact that the Martians have supposedly defeated disease does not mean they would forget the entire concept of microbial life (nor, for that matter, does it imply that they've eliminated all microbial life in their home environment; something which doesn't seem possible). It's still a retarded ending; the film works because you keep wondering "how the fuck are they going to get out of this", but at the end, they never really do. The Martians just self-destruct.

You ask how the film could have been ended in a way that wasn't stupid, and perhaps that's the problem. The setup is one that inherently has no plausible solution, so you have to go for a stupid one instead.

In the second League of Extraordinary Gentlemen series, the Martians die due to exposure to a hybrid disease weapon. Basically biological warfare.

The "cold" is a cover story. Whether or not that's a better solution however...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-07-03 05:01am

I prefer Alan Moores take on events: the league of extraordinary gentlemen enlist the help of Doctor Moreau to use (unbeknownst to them) biological warfare shells that the army uses in mortars against the walkers. 'Officially' the martians succumbed to 'the common cold'. But what of the trapped refugees in the vicinity of the martians? Simple: the martians got 'em.

Honestly, that was the ending a film like this screams to be given. Everyone HATES biological warfare, until those xenoc scum start invading.

Was there are Thunderchild? Black smoke, red weed?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-07-03 11:23am

The new film has no Thunder Child analogue or Black Smoke (the Black Smoke was said to be in by one producer who was obviously out of the loop), but the Red Weed is in and damn does it grow! The heat-rays are great too. They may be visible unlike the original which was either an IR laser or maser, but they do everything from cremate humans fully to slice bridges like paper to downing airliners. Though Black Smoke would be a good area effect weapon to route out anyone who thought they'd be able to hide. Oh yeah, the tripods have battlecries that sound just like the mines used by the Slave I in AOTC and just as loud. Not quite "ULLA!", but quite effective at announcing "You're fucked".

Having just seen the movie, I can say it is the serious summer movie. Nothing like ID4, it is however deeply disturbing, dark and realistic. You won't see huge battles as if you were in the middle of them, but you do see the 82nd Mountain Unit throw everything at the tripods and nothing touches them (I'd have preferred real good armour or point defences, but shields are okay).

It's definitely not for under 12s given some of the graphic scenes.

I must say that the appearance of the Bayonne tripod is the most amazing scene I have witnessed in sci-fi since, well, whenever. Amazingly cool.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2005-07-03 11:40am

I would have thought the army making a last stand at the ridge would qualify as the "thunderchild analogue"

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-07-03 12:01pm

In a way, it could be. It didn't have the same effect (I always feel sad at the loss of that ship in the musical) and it wasn't, well, at sea. If there was to be one, it would be during the ferry scene with a US warship coming to escort the ferry and then being attacked before the ferry capsizes.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2005-07-03 12:14pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Could be so, you never really know. I haven't seen the new film yet, seeing it in a few hours, but the way they are here and have been for some time is odd. There could be a single fighting machine tripod with pilot left alive out there that goes into hiding again. Really, given the power of those things, it could singlehandedly take on the planet, albeit, slowly. I always assumed the original novel ended without full closure in that respect anyway. The Martian invasion surely can't have been their whole civilisation as with ID4, which I now recall had sequel rumours to the extent that the initial invasion was simply a scout party.

The invasion force was not the whole Martian civilisation, the epilogue of the novel mentions that they sent cylinders to Venus after the invasion of Earth failed IIRC.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-07-03 12:36pm

I'll have to check that, because I was under the impression Venus was a no go since it was far too inhospitable, which is why Earth was chosen all along and it was closer anyway.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-07-03 02:07pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I'll have to check that, because I was under the impression Venus was a no go since it was far too inhospitable, which is why Earth was chosen all along and it was closer anyway.

In the novel it would make sense, since Wells wrote it before it was known for sure that Venus was uninhabitable. If I recall correctly, the view was that it was some sort of overheated tropical world.