FIFA World Cup Thread

[Edi]

Paraguay just got robbed. That was a legit goal, but the ref call was understandable because they didn't have replay.

It may have looked like the scorer played with his hand, though he didn't, and it certainly wasn't an offside either. Which has solidly decided me that I'm supporting Paraguay in this match. Nothing personal against Spain, but the way they're playing, not impressed either.

[Thanas]

Speaking of refs, the one in the Germany vs Argentina game was outstanding. Except for that one yellow card against Müller (which was a legitimate judgement call) he did not make any mistakes and calmed the Argentinians down when they were getting rowdy.

[Edi]

Speaking of refs, the one in the Germany vs Argentina game was outstanding. Except for that one yellow card against Müller (which was a legitimate judgement call) he did not make any mistakes and calmed the Argentinians down when they were getting rowdy.

Indeed.

This one is pretty good too, but some things can only be seen when re-examined and that Paraguay goal was one of those, without replay it'd be controversial either way, with replay it isn't.

[Tribun]

Spain and Paraguay should better not play like this against Germany, or they'll get slaughtered. Seriously, they need to gear up or they'll lose the semi-final.

[Zeond]

Paraguay just got robbed. That was a legit goal, but the ref call was understandable because they didn't have replay.

It may have looked like the scorer played with his hand, though he didn't, and it certainly wasn't an offside either. Which has solidly decided me that I'm supporting Paraguay in this match. Nothing personal against Spain, but the way they're playing, not impressed either.

I disagree. It was the correct call.

Unless the rules have changed since I was a referee, the player in the offside position does not need to actually touch the ball to be ruled offside. He was offside by being involved in the play and gaining and advantage from his offside position since he was able to block Spanish defenders from reaching the ball and he attempted to head the ball. It is a situation where the AR cannot judge clearly whether a player touched the ball due to the many players blocking his line of sight and he has to make the call based on the involvement of the player who was the offside position at the time the ball was last played by an attacking player.

The key thing to remember about the offside rule is that being in an offside positions is not an offense by itself. The offense is gaining and advantage from being in the offside position which is usually judged as being involved in the play.

[Master of Ossus]

Wow. Paraguay isn't making it comfortable for Spain at all.

As for the offside call, it's irrelevant whether or not defenders mark or play an offside player(s). The thing about gaining an advantage only comes in when they're physically blocking the view or obstructing defenders. Here, whether he was involved in play or not was a judgment call, but IMO it was an erroneous judgment: he didn't play it and didn't prevent the defense from playing the eventual goal scorer.

[Thanas]

Man, that was a bad game by both sides. Spain vs Germany next. Spain better play a lot better or they will lose like Argentina did.

[Coyote]

Considering it was Paraguay vs. Spain, I'd say Paraguay did really well. Spain was the powerhouse coming into this, and Paraguay has never made it this far before... and they kept them stalled and made them work for one goal. A good show by a country that is normally just an also-ran well before reaching the finals.

[Edi]

Paraguay just got robbed. That was a legit goal, but the ref call was understandable because they didn't have replay.

It may have looked like the scorer played with his hand, though he didn't, and it certainly wasn't an offside either. Which has solidly decided me that I'm supporting Paraguay in this match. Nothing personal against Spain, but the way they're playing, not impressed either.

I disagree. It was the correct call.

Unless the rules have changed since I was a referee, the player in the offside position does not need to actually touch the ball to be ruled offside. He was offside by being involved in the play and gaining and advantage from his offside position since he was able to block Spanish defenders from reaching the ball and he attempted to head the ball. It is a situation where the AR cannot judge clearly whether a player touched the ball due to the many players blocking his line of sight and he has to make the call based on the involvement of the player who was the offside position at the time the ball was last played by an attacking player.

The key thing to remember about the offside rule is that being in an offside positions is not an offense by itself. The offense is gaining and advantage from being in the offside position which is usually judged as being involved in the play.

I know how the offside rule works. Whether the call was correct or not can be argued. According to your interpretation, it should not have been allowed, but there is some leeway there. However, even if this was a case of referee error, it is a minor error at best due to the vagaries of the situation and the asinine FIFA rules about video replay of goals. It was not an egregious error, which is why I'm not particularly bitter about it.

[charlemagne]

Considering it was Paraguay vs. Spain, I'd say Paraguay did really well.

Agreed, nice game to watch, not great soccer but big on suspense. I feel for Paraguay though.

[Siege]

I might be a minority in this country right now, but I'm genuinely pleased for the Germans. The German defense had me staggered, I can't believe how efficiently they blocked any attempt the Argentinians made at attacking. And the passing... Holy shit, it frequently looked like there were just more Germans on the field than there were Argentinians. Yeah, congratulations are definitely in order. Not in the least place for wiping that arrogant grin off Maradona's stupid face. Voll geiles match!

[Thanas]

^Thanks. Good luck for your semi-final, the classic of Netherlands-Germany must be resurrected. (Though I hope you'll forgive me if I hope for the same results as in 1974).


Also, the Brazilian papers are paying a huuge compliment to the German team by calling them the Seleção. Never thought this would happen.

[salm]

GERMANY, FUCK YEAH!!!

[Lief]

Holland vs Spain final it shall be btw

[Siege]

^Thanks. Good luck for your semi-final, the classic of Netherlands-Germany must be resurrected. (Though I hope you'll forgive me if I hope for the same results as in 1974).

Hehe, well, in that case I'm sure you won't mind if I'll hope for revenge for Cruijff, Rep, Neeskens and Van Hanegem. Although if I have to be brutally honest, the German team right now is just better than any other I've seen so far, the Dutch team included. We're getting better, but we're nowhere near what the Germans put out today. But hey, you never know what might happen in two matches time...

[Lief]

^Thanks. Good luck for your semi-final, the classic of Netherlands-Germany must be resurrected. (Though I hope you'll forgive me if I hope for the same results as in 1974).

Hehe, well, in that case I'm sure you won't mind if I'll hope for revenge for Cruijff, Rep, Neeskens and Van Hanegem. Although if I have to be brutally honest, the German team right now is just better than any other I've seen so far, the Dutch team included. We're getting better, but we're nowhere near what the Germans put out today. But hey, you never know what might happen in two matches time...

The Germans have only played teams which have made them look good, do any of you even watch the games?

[Thanas]

The Germans have only played teams which have made them look good, do any of you even watch the games?

Riiiiight. I guess skill and teamwork has got nothing to do with it. No, all of the opponents were just that bad. What idiocy is this?

[D.Turtle]

I hadn't heard of this before, but it illustrates my point made above quite well:


Its in German, but basically at a press conference in March Maradona does not want to sit in a press conference with that unknown guy (Müller) and leaves. Only after Müller leaves does he come back in and do his thing, and only after that can Müller come back in again.

[Serafina]

No wonder that they lost if their trainer doesn't even know the other teams players

[Crown]

The Germans have only played teams which have made them look good, do any of you even watch the games?

Riiiiight. I guess skill and teamwork has got nothing to do with it. No, all of the opponents were just that bad. What idiocy is this?

If you take off the patriotic blinkers for a moment (and you're more than entitled to have them on in the first place) you will notice; you have played against some of the most comical (England), shoddy (Argentina) and naive (Australia) defences in the tournament.

I don't want to take anything away from Germany's results; they speak for themselves, but an injection of realism is needed.

[Thanas]

The Germans have only played teams which have made them look good, do any of you even watch the games?

Riiiiight. I guess skill and teamwork has got nothing to do with it. No, all of the opponents were just that bad. What idiocy is this?

If you take off the patriotic blinkers for a moment (and you're more than entitled to have them on in the first place) you will notice; you have played against some of the most comical (England), shoddy (Argentina) and naive (Australia) defences in the tournament.

I don't want to take anything away from Germany's results; they speak for themselves, but an injection of realism is needed.

Sorry, but saying that the Germans have only played teams which made them look good is just unsupported. Ghana, for example, was far from a shoddy or naive team. Furthermore, the teams we have beaten are Ghana, England, Argentina and Australia. Argentina was said to be one of the favorites. There is just a point where "bad defence" does not cut it. That may lead to a victory, but not by those numbers.

After all, you might just as well credit the Spanish victory only to the fact that Paraguay cannot score, or the Netherland's victory is only due to the fact that Brazil are hotheads.

I am not saying Germany is the best team ever - but to say they only played and won against teams that made them look good is just wrong. Otherwise it might just as well apply to every team in the final four.

[Havok]

If you take off the patriotic blinkers for a moment (and you're more than entitled to have them on in the first place) you will notice; you have played against some of the most comical (England), shoddy (Argentina) and naive (Australia) defences in the tournament.

And completely humiliated them.

That is what great teams do. Destroy inferior opponents and merely defeat good ones.

To put this in REAL football terms...

This is like the Niners of the 80s destroying their pathetic division opponents every season. Yes, they absolutely sucked, but that is why they would routinely hang 35+ points on them while only allowing single digits on the defense. Then when they got to the playoffs and played 'real' competition, they may only win by 10 or 14, but they still won.

Plus the fact that Germany MADE those teams defenses look that pathetic is a point that seems to be getting ignored.

[Crown]

If you take off the patriotic blinkers for a moment (and you're more than entitled to have them on in the first place) you will notice; you have played against some of the most comical (England), shoddy (Argentina) and naive (Australia) defences in the tournament.

I don't want to take anything away from Germany's results; they speak for themselves, but an injection of realism is needed.

Sorry, but saying that the Germans have only played teams which made them look good is just unsupported.

Don't believe I said that.

Ghana, for example, was far from a shoddy or naive team. Furthermore, the teams we have beaten are Ghana, England, Argentina and Australia.

Football isn't a logic puzzle, i.e; if A > B & B > C therefore A > C doesn't always hold true. You have to look at the results based on the performance of the day.

Argentina was said to be one of the favorites.

Argentina was also said to have the shakiest defence of the favourites. Maradona himself has been quoted in saying 'if they score 3, we'll score 5' (didn't quite work out for him but there you go). If we are going by what people 'said' why do you sweep the above under the rug?

There is just a point where "bad defence" does not cut it. That may lead to a victory, but not by those numbers.

Err .. yeah it does. Look at the England game; John Terry up in no man's land Upson can't keep up goalkeeper assited goal. The second one, John Terry (again) moving waaaaaay over the left, sucking in Upson thus leaving only Johnson to defend the centre and the entire right hand side. The third and fourth; classic counter attack aided by Barry not being able to trap a ball and run, and England conceding a goal from their own free kick in Germany's final third!!!

Make no mistake; I am not saying that it took no skill, composure, vision, talent etc to get those goals - it does - but those opportunities were gifted to Germany by some of the most shambolic defending imaginable.

After all, you might just as well credit the Spanish victory only to the fact that Paraguay cannot score, or the Netherland's victory is only due to the fact that Brazil are hotheads.

Actually it's a good thing you mention Spain, there was an iconic moment in the Spain vs Portugal game, second half, a few minutes before Torres got subbed off, Torres had the ball played to him out to the right of the 18 yard box there were five Portugal defenders, in a straight line between him and Villa who was on the left wing. That is typical of the Spain vs X games I've seen (and I've seen all of them this world cup), and I can not recall one time where Germany faced the same thing against England, Argentina and Australia (the three specific examples I mentioned). Can you?

I am not saying Germany is the best team ever - but to say they only played and won against teams that made them look good is just wrong. Otherwise it might just as well apply to every team in the final four.

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm suggesting the score line flatters to deceive. I think Germany are deserved semi finalists.

[Thanas]

If you take off the patriotic blinkers for a moment (and you're more than entitled to have them on in the first place) you will notice; you have played against some of the most comical (England), shoddy (Argentina) and naive (Australia) defences in the tournament.

I don't want to take anything away from Germany's results; they speak for themselves, but an injection of realism is needed.

Sorry, but saying that the Germans have only played teams which made them look good is just unsupported.

Don't believe I said that.

You quoted me after I disagreed with Lief, while keeping his original assertion in your quote. So I naturally believed you disagreed with me in favor of Lief.

Actually it's a good thing you mention Spain, there was an iconic moment in the Spain vs Portugal game, second half, a few minutes before Torres got subbed off, Torres had the ball played to him out to the right of the 18 yard box there were five Portugal defenders, in a straight line between him and Villa who was on the left wing. That is typical of the Spain vs X games I've seen (and I've seen all of them this world cup), and I can not recall one time where Germany faced the same thing against England, Argentina and Australia (the three specific examples I mentioned). Can you?

Well, Schweinsteigers solo around the argentinian defence for example - he faced the same number, but actually managed to get the ball to Friedrich.

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm suggesting the score line flatters to deceive. I think Germany are deserved semi finalists.

I don't really think we disagree about a lot of things, actually. Yeah, the score-line is a bit flattering, but that said the german defence is rock-solid so far.

[Crown]

Don't believe I said that.

You quoted me after I disagreed with Lief, while keeping his original assertion in your quote. So I naturally believed you disagreed with me in favor of Lief.

Understandable, but I did (I felt) make it pretty clear in the text of my opening post what I was and wasn't saying.

Well, Schweinsteigers solo around the argentinian defence for example - he faced the same number, but actually managed to get the ball to Friedrich.

It was a brilliant run for sure, but I wouldn't count Gonzalo Higuain a defender, would you?

I don't really think we disagree about a lot of things, actually. Yeah, the score-line is a bit flattering, but that said the german defence is rock-solid so far.

I agree, licking my lips to see what Loew does; does he set out to play football against Spain? Or will he set up to contain and counter?