Cats vs Dogs. GET IT ON!

[Admiral Valdemar]

I know, why not compare goldfish to alligators, because this German Shepards against tabbies bullshit is about as fucking useful. We're talking about suitable pets here, not who can get the biggest penis compensation because their pet kills better (which would fail in comparison anyway given, for their size, domestic cats are the best predators around, even if a Alsatian can kill one more likely).

[Duckie]

Eliminating the fact that most dogs are bigger than any cat is hardly fair.

If we play by your rules, then its German Shepards against house cats. If by my rules, then its Tigers against wolves.
Personally I prefer my rules.

Possibly because they're biased in your favor?

Anyhow, if I can hazard a guess as to what Mr. Wong is thinking here- since unlike your one I would hope he isn't talking about pitfighting or such useless nonsense- A dog still retains many characteristics of a domesticated wolf. You're not going to tell me that a cat is a domesticated motherfucking tiger. They share ancestry in the sense that they both have the same Genus, the two have diverged. Even I know that, and I actively dislike dogs.

[Pick]

The fact that cats are better than dogs at certain things does not make them a better pet. Let's put it this way: if all dogs disappeared, humanity would suffer a greater loss than if all cats disappeared. Some people like cats, but nobody needs them.

Technically, humanity doesn't need dogs either. Thankfully, both have their role. Dogs can be used as service animals, but that's an incredible low percentage of total dog population. I suppose some of them do something else clearly useful (hunting dogs and some rat-catchers?) but most are kept for amusement purposes.

Cats also do pose their own usefulness. Many bookstores around here keep cats in the building to stem the rodents that might feed on the books, and the farmers always have their share for the same purpose (except obviously crops, not books .) Additionally, if people like cats, then they too serve the purpose of amusement, regardless of any quantifiable contributions.

We could technically get along without either, but our civilization would suffer in either event.

[Camel]

Possibly because they're biased in your favor?

Anyhow, if I can hazard a guess as to what Mr. Wong is thinking here- since unlike your one I would hope he isn't talking about pitfighting or such useless nonsense- A dog still retains many characteristics of a domesticated wolf. You're not going to tell me that a cat is a domesticated motherfucking tiger. They share ancestry in the sense that they both have the same Genus, the two have diverged. Even I know that, and I actively dislike dogs.

Both claims were extremely biased. Read the last few posts (or ten) that have been made.

He is probalby thinking how to eliminate my "tiger vs wolf" shit first. Then its anyones guess.
I am nearly out of points to make. I was making a devastating all or nothing strike on the dog lovers.

I have had time to anticipate and cover all, or most of the holes in my arguments. I only anticipated a few senators at the most would reply to my arguments. The dark lord will either completely ignore my posts or will unleash his full power on them.
I hope it doesn't come to that.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Other animals have and are used for jobs that domestic dogs have been used for, such as guide dogs or as sniffer animals. Dogs are simply easier to get hold of and train right now, but are by no means the only animal capable.

I always find it interesting when we make our own fascimile of a working animal like the DARPA mecha mule that's being tested for Afghanistan operations where wheeled vehicles can't traverse. Electronic sniffing devices are being improved all the time to help police and customs agents when there is a lack of sniffer dogs.

[Duckie]

He is probalby thinking how to eliminate my "tiger vs wolf" shit first. Then its anyones guess.
I am nearly out of points to make. I was making a devastating all or nothing strike on the dog lovers.

I guess that's a way of looking at that. Visualizing it myself, I sort of would summarize it as such:
Camel: You heard me, a wolf would get its ass kicked by a tiger in a fight.
Wong: I guess but Cats vs. Dogs is really more about German Shephard vs. Housecat than Tiger vs. Wolf.

In that both really have no bearing but that perhaps he was so confused by the sheer inanity of your argument that he basically got sidetracked trying to figure out what the hell you were talking about.

But that's just my unprofessional opinion.

I have had time to anticipate and cover all, or most of the holes in my arguments. I only anticipated a few senators at the most would reply to my arguments. The dark lord will either completely ignore my posts or will unleash his full power on them.
I hope it doesn't come to that.

The sarcastic trembling really wasn't that witty in the previous thread, really. By now it's just sort of... not funny at all, really. Sorry, just wanted to let you know.

[Camel]

The sarcastic trembling really wasn't that witty in the previous thread, really. By now it's just sort of... not funny at all, really. Sorry, just wanted to let you know.

That was not sarcasm or meant to be funny in the least. I am genuinely afraid of Lord Wong.

[Pick]

Other animals have and are used for jobs that domestic dogs have been used for, such as guide dogs or as sniffer animals. Dogs are simply easier to get hold of and train right now, but are by no means the only animal capable.

I've heard that pigs are actually quite good for these kind of jobs, and that they are more intelligent than dogs. I don't know if this is true, however.

[Gil Hamilton]

Technically, humanity doesn't need dogs either. Thankfully, both have their role. Dogs can be used as service animals, but that's an incredible low percentage of total dog population. I suppose some of them do something else clearly useful (hunting dogs and some rat-catchers?) but most are kept for amusement purposes.

Cats also do pose their own usefulness. Many bookstores around here keep cats in the building to stem the rodents that might feed on the books, and the farmers always have their share for the same purpose (except obviously crops, not books .) Additionally, if people like cats, then they too serve the purpose of amusement, regardless of any quantifiable contributions.

We could technically get along without either, but our civilization would suffer in either event.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Dogs have been domesticated from day one, along with horses. In fact, practically everytime we identify older human settlements, we find evidence of domesticated dogs. The domestication of dogs very likely played a very large role in humanity settling down from hunter gatherers to settlements, as herding and hunting dogs. Whatever your opinions on dogs, their role in human social evolution is undeniable, virtually from the time a wolf cub with a particularly pathetic expression wandered into a human hunter-gatherer camp to the modern day.

[BloodAngel]

A mass extinction of cats would result in a crapload of pests growing in the world; one of the main reasons we and cats decided to live together in the first place was because they were adept hunters and would lend their skills, killing mice and insects, while in return we could provide shelter and a guaranteed food source if they'd ever need it. (although some civilizations, like the Egyptians, took that to a more extreme level )

[Pick]

Which means what in their role currently?

If this was "Cats vs. Dogs 2: Caveman Antics" I think your point would be more pertinent.

[Shogoki]

Are they better hunters than a pack of wolves though? (wolves would be essentially the closest to a natural dog).

Dogs are naturally better suited to rural environments. They're not as agile as a cat, so man-made constructions tend to get in the way of them. In a natural environment they'd be (and are, if you're willing to accept wolves as dogs) quite formidable hunters.

Also, in the lion's own home turff, the #1 big predator is the african wild dog, with a success rate of 70-90%, while the lion's somewhere around 30%, or so Wild Discovery says, and that's hunting the same prey.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I like both those wolves we've let into our caves ten million years ago, and those smallish tigers that we let into our first cities some 50,000 years ago....

[Lord Woodlouse]

I like both those wolves we've let into our caves ten million years ago, and those smallish tigers that we let into our first cities some 50,000 years ago....

Cities 50,000 years ago? Where's this in, Stargate?

[Camel]

Also, in the lion's own home turff, the #1 big predator is the african wild dog, with a success rate of 70-90%, while the lion's somewhere around 30%, or so Wild Discovery says, and that's hunting the same prey.

My first impression was "WTF?" to your bold statements.
I too have seen hundreds episodes of "wild planet" and I NEVER got the impression that wild dogs were more than a pathetic, nearly extinct, race of dogs(perhaps species, I don't know if they are THAT different from wolves).
Where the hell do you get a 70% success rate for their hunting. Perhaps against insects and rats. From what I have seen they are barely managed to bring down a gazelle. Then barely got a few mouth fulls before being driven off by LIONS.
African wild dogs are a pathetic excuse for a predator. They are not even worth mentioning.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I like both those wolves we've let into our caves ten million years ago, and those smallish tigers that we let into our first cities some 50,000 years ago....

Cities 50,000 years ago? Where's this in, Stargate?

oops that's a decimal point off.

[Camel]

oops that's a decimal point off.

I like both those wolves we've let into our caves ten million years ago....

You were SERIOUS?!
Dude, TEN million years??!!...

[Lord Woodlouse]

Eliminating the fact that most dogs are bigger than any cat is hardly fair.

If we play by your rules, then its German Shepards against house cats. If by my rules, then its Tigers against wolves.
Personally I prefer my rules.

We can all adapt rules to suit ourselves. Let's stick a lion in the arctic wastes and see how long it survives compared to a wolf, for instance.

Pit individual humans against most predators of similar size in the animal world and you'll find the human tends to be woefully outmatched, a human's advantage is it's intelligence and ability to work cohesively with other members of it's species. Without them we're just a substandard borderline predators. The same, roughly, applies to wolves. They're fantastically intelligent and efficient pack animals and I think superior hunters to lions, they're just stuffed if they go one on one with a lion.

[Vain]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/ ... -bear.html

Clawless kitty chases bear up tree

Who needs a guard dog when Jack the elderly suburban housecat is on duty?

The 10-year-old New Jersey tabby defended his neighbourhood turf earlier this week by chasing a wandering black bear up a tree — twice.

West Milford residents Suzanne and Jack Giovanetti first noticed a bear huddled in a tree in their backyard on Sunday afternoon.

Sitting beneath the tree: A seven-kilogram, orange-and-white, declawed neighbourhood cat named Jack.

The bear remained in the tree for about 15 minutes, frequently looking down at Jack.

When it slid down the tree and ran off, Jack was hot on its heels.

Cat is 'territorial'

Suzanne Giovanetti told the Star-Ledger of Newark that the cat was hissing at the bear as it gave chase.

The bear climbed up into a second tree until Jack's owner, Donna Dickey, called the cat home.

"The cat sauntered back toward the group, rubbing up against everyone," said the newspaper.

As soon as the cat left, the bear clambered down the tree and walked into the woods.

Dickey told the newspaper that Jack is territorial, frequently chasing small animals from their yard. She believes the cat may have mistaken the bear for the family's chocolate labrador retriever.

Giovanetti, who said she's never bonded with the neighbourhood cat, said she was always a little afraid of Jack.

"Now, I think I fear him more," she is quoted as saying.

[CJvR]

African Wild-dogs are indeed the best, most efficient hunters on the African plains. They are endurance hunters, like us, and run down their game. Unlike the northern Wolves they have never developed the rather sophistcated hunting methods those canines use. Their socialization was also a bit more primitive IIRC and their value to us was rather limited as a result. What is killing them of is mainly increasing numbers of Hyenas and dicease from local domestic dogs.


The social skills of dogs have been held up as a big + but that is only true as long as you have the dog convinced that you are the boss. If you don't then you have a dog with an attitude.

[Lazarus]

For those who say that many dogs play a unique and vital role as sniffer dogs, there is now an alternative, cheaper, more compact and more easily trainable choice: the common honey bee.

From the latest issue of British Beekeepers Association news:

British honey bees are vying with American wasps to play a role as ultra-sensitive odour detectors, with applications that include sniffing out explosives, diagnosing disease and monitoring food quality.
The insects are as sensitive as bloodhounds, but can be 'trained' far more quickly than dogs to recognise specific molecules (a few minutes). (The bees can detect)...molecules in the air at concentrations below one part per trillion...teams have developed technology for holding them in portable sensing units (small cassette sized devices). Computer based image analysis then shows, on the basis of their behaviour, whether the bees can smell the target molecule.

I doubt that any significant effect would be evident if all dogs suddenly dissappeared, clearly alternatives to whatever niche functions dogs still perform can be found.

[Gil Hamilton]

Which means what in their role currently?

If this was "Cats vs. Dogs 2: Caveman Antics" I think your point would be more pertinent.

Ah, yes. "Sure, domestication of dogs greatly expedited the movement from hunter gatherer to settlements by providing a few important roles, making our very civilization possible... but what have they done for us lately?!"

Tell me, Pick, where are all the seeing eye cats and search and rescue cats? How many hunting cats are there beyond ratters? Are there a great many helper cats out there that are trained to assist in case of their owners having a seizure? Herding cats that can maneuver herds of cattle? Guard cats? Drug sniffing cats? Et cetera. Et cetera.

Sure you don't think that them being ratters and looking cute puts them on the same level as the myriad roles dogs have play in human society, many of them as old as human society?

[RedImperator]

Eliminating the fact that most dogs are bigger than any cat is hardly fair.

If we play by your rules, then its German Shepards against house cats. If by my rules, then its Tigers against wolves.
Personally I prefer my rules.

Oh Jesus Christ, are you kidding me? You are aware that tigers and domestic housecats are not the same species, correct? By that logic, I could claim that the mighty domestic canary is actually the best pet, on account of the fact a Tyrannosaurus could kick the shit out of the meanest tiger that ever lived.

[Joe]

Sure you don't think that them being ratters and looking cute puts them on the same level as the myriad roles dogs have play in human society, many of them as old as human society?

Terriers are infinitely more useful as ratters, anyway, as has been pointed out elsewhere in the thread. Even an untrained terrier will eagerly hunt rodents, as my mother found out to her horror one day when our Silky Terrier made her first kill.

[Chardok]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/ ... -bear.html

Clawless kitty chases bear up tree

Who needs a guard dog when Jack the elderly suburban housecat is on duty?

The 10-year-old New Jersey tabby defended his neighbourhood turf earlier this week by chasing a wandering black bear up a tree — twice.

West Milford residents Suzanne and Jack Giovanetti first noticed a bear huddled in a tree in their backyard on Sunday afternoon.

Sitting beneath the tree: A seven-kilogram, orange-and-white, declawed neighbourhood cat named Jack.

The bear remained in the tree for about 15 minutes, frequently looking down at Jack.

When it slid down the tree and ran off, Jack was hot on its heels.

Cat is 'territorial'

Suzanne Giovanetti told the Star-Ledger of Newark that the cat was hissing at the bear as it gave chase.

The bear climbed up into a second tree until Jack's owner, Donna Dickey, called the cat home.

"The cat sauntered back toward the group, rubbing up against everyone," said the newspaper.

As soon as the cat left, the bear clambered down the tree and walked into the woods.

Dickey told the newspaper that Jack is territorial, frequently chasing small animals from their yard. She believes the cat may have mistaken the bear for the family's chocolate labrador retriever.

Giovanetti, who said she's never bonded with the neighbourhood cat, said she was always a little afraid of Jack.

"Now, I think I fear him more," she is quoted as saying.

Yeah. Well, I fucking run away from wasps when they buzz me, too. could I squish it easily, sure. I just don't want to get stung.