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The US decides, in a bit of insanity, to propose that all US citizens shall be able to attend public university within the US free of charge.

How much would this cost? Would it ever be feasible to attempt such a thing?

Of course it wouldn't be feasible. You may as well wish that the moon would fly out of orbit.

You know, in my Country, that's what happens..

At public colleges (considered the best) we only pay a symbolic fee of about 350$ an year.

Next to nothing.

Of course, the people who don't have grades good enough to frequent a good public college (and don't want to go to a really shitty one) get to pay more much than that every month in a private one.

Same in Germany too. Damn I want to go there, if only to go to school.

It would be feasible if we quit spending so much on the 'Pacific Solution' and locking up women and children. But it is not as though this government gives a flying fuck about education.

Uraniun235 wrote:How much would this cost? Would it ever be feasible to attempt such a thing?

That depends, what kind of quality of education are we talking about? What are the eligablity requirements?

At least in my state we have a program called TOPS, which allows any high school graduate who meets certain ACT and GPA standards to attend college for free. You get to select any state school and pursue any major you want. Louisiana state schools obviousily aren't MITs or ivy leagers (except of course for Tulane, but that's private), but as with almost all institutions, you will get a good education if you're willing to put the effort into it.

One True Spoon wrote:It would be feasible if we quit spending so much on the 'Pacific Solution' and locking up women and children. But it is not as though this government gives a flying fuck about education.

Too true. It utterly sucks that we have these fucking HECS debts accumulating, then on top of that they still under-fund the uni's with what they get from them!

I mean UTAS is having faculty closures every year, they effect students AND staff....

Its just shit.

I mean the Australian government spends more on SPORT than it does on tertiary education las I checked!

If you want to go to school in the US you can

Provided like everyone else your willing to work your ass off for the 8 Years ahead of time to get excellent grades to get you in that top 5%

There's a reason why so many people don't go to college even those that can afford it

Free Collage, Like Social Security will be wasted on the Majority of people who will simply waste it
PS to those who live from Social Security Check to Social Secruity Check,
Why is that?
Who's fault is that?
(Baring people who invested in matchstick plants which burned down and other terribly ironic problems)

I've encountered some stupid people in my college days and letting in really stupid people would not help.

The UC system in California was free at one time, but eventually the cost becomes prohibitive. I dont think it would work here in the US because people that do not meet the standards would scream to get in since its free.

-- EDIT.

I would like to add however, that I think a university system should be affordable. One of the reasons the tech industry is so strong here and got its start in California was the reasonable cost of CSU and UC systems. Plus the existance of community colleges which allow those who do not make the grade after high school to catch up, or a place to go for personal enrichment.

Uraniun235 wrote:The US decides, in a bit of insanity, to propose that all US citizens shall be able to attend public university within the US free of charge.

How much would this cost? Would it ever be feasible to attempt such a thing?

It would cost a shitload of money. If we assume a cost of $5000 - $10,000 per year per student, and assume that just a million people go to college, then that's five to ten billion per year. For ten million people, it goes up to 100 billion per year.

Would it be worth it?

No.

Why? If we said everybody could go to college free of charge, suddenly you could have a whole bunch of people who go to college for one or two semesters, then flunk out. These people will likely be from groups who traditionally under-perform in college, either due to lack of preparation, or lack of motivation. But, instead of urging the primary and secondary school systems to improve their college-prep cirriculum, you will instead have people demanding that the college cirriculum be dumbed down, thus doing nobody no good.

Of course, this goes on in states where students can go to college for cheap due to state programs. Take for example the state of New Mexico, which, due to the fact that people love buying Powerball tickets, has the Lottery Scholarship, which pays for most of the cost of tuition. However, studies have shown that it hasn't really improved long-term enrollment. What it has done is to increase the people who come to college, and then drop out within two semesters. It has also forced the schools to make what were traditionally "weeder" courses easier, and introduce that wonderful concept of the "core cirriculum" (making up for the stuff students didn't get in high school.)

Florida has a program called Bright Futures that gives out academic scholarships to any public university given a certain GPA and SAT score. You are also required to maintain a good GPA to retain the scholarship (with one chance of restitution if it falls too low one semester).

This has had the effect of straining the state budget - and remember, we do not have an income tax. Politicians are mumbling about changing it so that it is harder to get it. (I'm currently on it).

Many public schools also accept a great number of students (e.g. University of Minnesota, University of South Florida, etc.) - but they slam them with weeder classes. My dad attended U-MN and said that they were famous for having classes with average scores of something like 10% so that they could force students to drop out.

Uraniun235 wrote:The US decides, in a bit of insanity, to propose that all US citizens shall be able to attend public university within the US free of charge.

How much would this cost? Would it ever be feasible to attempt such a thing?

In Germany, you don't pay anything for university.

And stupid students get weeded out quite effectively.

Uraniun235 wrote:The US decides, in a bit of insanity, to propose that all US citizens shall be able to attend public university within the US free of charge.

How much would this cost? Would it ever be feasible to attempt such a thing?

It would cost an enormous amount of money. The only way to make it feasable is to make the first-year weeder classes so hard that students drop out in droves to make sure there's enough money for everyone else.

Needless to say, this is unlikely to happen if colleges become "opened" like this - likely various groups will start complaining that classes are "too hard" for their "[insert adj. here]" people. IIRC, there have been protests against schools with certain requirements that are not generally taught in inner-city schools.

Uraniun235 wrote:The US decides, in a bit of insanity, to propose that all US citizens shall be able to attend public university within the US free of charge.

How much would this cost? Would it ever be feasible to attempt such a thing?

It's about as Likely as America stopping the way it bullies the world.

Rates aren't so bad here in good 'ol Britiain though...last year I was on a course that cost no more than £150...it was upfront and then that was it , no extra course fees or anything save maybe the occasional book

Here's an example of my fees this semester.
Books were ~$300-350 more.

A massively expanded government-funded scholarship program would make more sense. Something like these merit-based programs everyone is talking about, but designed to cover much greater numbers of students.

You would also want to limit use of this program to acceptable programs. Frankly, programs like existential philosophy or classical Greek literature should not be taxpayer-funded, as they exist for self-improvement and serve little objective purpose, particularly in terms of dollar value. In Taiwan, for example, teachers' college has brutal entrance exams but is fully government-funded, because they want more teachers. In this country, when you find a professional student, that person is a liberal-arts major 95% of the time. So you really need to adjust the enrollment in the program by faculty, since that type of person will be the most abusive (not to mention the fact that it's almost impossible to fail out of liberal-arts).

I actually think it would be a good idea; without exception, countries that have clawed their way up to modern civilization in a short time have done so through strong public education. Education which is mostly for the rich is a staple of third-world nations, and there's a reason for that.

I only have to buy books, if I want to. But most of the time I take them from the library, or use the handed out scripts.

ALthough they recently introduced a fee of 500 ? per semester for long-term students, who study longer than 14 semesters. But it's highly likely that our supreme court will smack that down.

actually it´s not free in germany. i have to pay about € 50 semesterbeitrag per semester.
i also have to buy the public transportation semester ticket for € 130. without it i wouldnt be able to get to the uni.

Free college would be wasted on those that sees college as nothing more than a continuation of life in high school and trys to just slide through college.

phongn wrote:Florida has a program called Bright Futures that gives out academic scholarships to any public university given a certain GPA and SAT score. You are also required to maintain a good GPA to retain the scholarship (with one chance of restitution if it falls too low one semester).

This has had the effect of straining the state budget - and remember, we do not have an income tax. Politicians are mumbling about changing it so that it is harder to get it. (I'm currently on it).

Many public schools also accept a great number of students (e.g. University of Minnesota, University of South Florida, etc.) - but they slam them with weeder classes. My dad attended U-MN and said that they were famous for having classes with average scores of something like 10% so that they could force students to drop out.

The politicians here in Florida are full of shit. They had a the "class-size amendment" passed, a bullshit measure which people think will drastically alter education by shaving 5 kids out of every classroom. Hell, they could afford Bright Futures, Class-Size, and other shit if they removed rediculous bullshit exemptions to the sales tax. Here when I get my hair cut it isn't taxed. What a bunch of bullshit.

I always get a kick out of people in the US bitching about the cost of college. Usually they include the cost of room and board into the overall price which I don't think should be included unless there is some reason you have to live in the dorm or away from home. Otherwise the local university costs about $2500 a year (a little more or less depending on books and other fees). I don't think that is too much to pay if you are really serious about getting an education.

The local junior college is less than $1000 a year even with books and extra fees. Also, any credits over 12 is free. I took several classes for free that way.

Also in the US there are other ways of paying for college. I got my degree with the GI Bill.

If you are willing to wait until you are 24 or are able to convince the admiting office that you aren't financially supported by your parents it is pretty easy to get a grant. You are also automatically financially seperated from you parents if you served in the military even if your parents continue to give you financial aid.

There are always student loans but I've known a lot of people who got way too many of those for all the wrong reasons and ended up paying for a long time after they got out. Definately don't get loans unless you absolutely have too and preferably only if you know that your degree will translate into a well paying job rather quickly.

In Georgia we have the HOPE Grant, a scholarship program that pays the tuition of all Georgia high-school grads who have maintained a 3.0 or better GPA throughout their high school careers (and later college; they take it away if your GPA drops below 3.0). It's funded entirely by the state lottery. Although I am a recipient of the HOPE Grant and it would indeed be quite hypocritical to complain about it, I do have mixed feelings about it, because there are loads of kids going to college on HOPE - many of whom drive around 25,000 dollar SUVs - whose parents could easily afford to pay the relatively low cost of tuition at a Georgia state school (neither Tech or UGA, the most prestigious state schools, are terribly expensive in-state). Hell, my parents could probably afford the tuition without much difficulty, also. It's something of an ironic twist of fate, because these parents are no doubt the same people who put Newt Gingrich, a government-handout slasher, into office in 1994. I guess even the well-to-do are not above the promise of free money...

Darth Wong wrote:A massively expanded government-funded scholarship program would make more sense. Something like these merit-based programs everyone is talking about, but designed to cover much greater numbers of students.

That sounds good.

You would also want to limit use of this program to acceptable programs. Frankly, programs like existential philosophy or classical Greek literature should not be taxpayer-funded, as they exist for self-improvement and serve little objective purpose, particularly in terms of dollar value. In Taiwan, for example, teachers' college has brutal entrance exams but is fully government-funded, because they want more teachers. In this country, when you find a professional student, that person is a liberal-arts major 95% of the time. So you really need to adjust the enrollment in the program by faculty, since that type of person will be the most abusive (not to mention the fact that it's almost impossible to fail out of liberal-arts).

An alternative is to place some required limits, like it'd only fund x credit hours unless your major specifically requires otherwise (Florida limits you to 120 credit hours unless you're required to have more, minimum 12 credit hours/semester enrollment and soon to be four years maximum (used to be 7)).

This could reduce the number of professional students, I think.

Tsyroc wrote:I always get a kick out of people in the US bitching about the cost of college. Usually they include the cost of room and board into the overall price which I don't think should be included unless there is some reason you have to live in the dorm or away from home. Otherwise the local university costs about $2500 a year (a little more or less depending on books and other fees). I don't think that is too much to pay if you are really serious about getting an education.

Not everyone wants to live within commuting distance of school. I, for one, would much prefer UF over USF, and I would have to rent an apartment or dorm.

If you are willing to wait until you are 24 or are able to convince the admiting office that you aren't financially supported by your parents it is pretty easy to get a grant. You are also automatically financially seperated from you parents if you served in the military even if your parents continue to give you financial aid.

Why wait until 24, though, if you don't plan on joining the military?

There are always student loans but I've known a lot of people who got way too many of those for all the wrong reasons and ended up paying for a long time after they got out. Definately don't get loans unless you absolutely have too and preferably only if you know that your degree will translate into a well paying job rather quickly.

OTOH, there are those who go to expensive schools with excellent programs and have little choice in the matter if they wish to attend. MIT, Northwestern University, Duke, Princeton - those are all pricey schools.