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Which movie is worse? I just saw PH a few days ago and still havn't got over the utterly insane way they rewrote much of the history and events in it. Some of the wonderful bits include:

1. Zeros constently straffing men in the water fleeing from battleships when in RL the Japenese aircraft simply did their assigned jobs in terms of attack runs. They did NOT go shooting up helpless people for the fun of it.

2. Japenese patrol boats getting within 300 feet of the USS Hornet and dolittle raid before they were detected....and only because they transmitted on the radio.

3. The Dolittle flyers on the ground heroicly fighting off an entire platoon of Jap troops, getting captured by the remainder, then overpowering their captors in a few seconds, grabing the weapons from them and killing them all.

4. The Dolittle raid comming under heavier antiaircraft fire then has been seen in the history of war (especaily when the raid came under more or less none).

5. Two Wildcats shooting/destroying seven zeros and surviving when under attack by three times that number. The enemy zeros placidly following directly behind and above the aformentioned aircraft on their takeoff run, waiting till they were up in the air and manouvering before opening fire.

6. The aircraft waves arriving back at the Carriers and Admiral nagano happily grinning and proclaiming 'I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping Giant and fill him with Terible resolve', Yammoto's statement which was said at the end of the day in Japan in a flat and sobber tone.

7. The B25's on the Hornet when doing their takeoff roles not bothering to apply maximum power until they were halfway down the carrier deck on their takeoff run.

8. A cook on board a battleship (can't remember which one) with no training grabbing an AA mount and blasting a zero from the sky without a problem.

9. The 1970's era USN ships sitting calmly in the background of the massive firefights.

10. The Nurses in charge of the hospital and running around in chaos screaming in total opposition to the usual profesional attitudes they kept during the events.

11. A spitfire slaming into the English channel at full speed, not breaking up and the piolt inside more then able to get out (when its underwater), swim to the surface, then swim back to sure.

And don't get me started on their crimes against acting.

So. Which is the worse movie. Battlefield Earth which is horrible but sci fi or Pearl Harbour which might as well have been an alternate universe Pearl Harbour for the accuracy...

Chris O'Farrell wrote:Which movie is worse? I just saw PH a few days ago and still havn't got over the utterly insane way they rewrote much of the history and events in it. Some of the wonderful bits include:
..

8. A cook on board a battleship (can't remember which one) with no training grabbing an AA mount and blasting a zero from the sky without a problem.

This part did happen. Doris Miller, a black mess attendant from Waco,Texas, serving on the USS West Virginia, became one of the first American heros of the war at Pearl Harbor. At the time, African Americans in the Navy could serve only in the Steward's Branch. As a messman, Miller had not received the gunnery training given white sailors, but when members of the gun crew were wounded, he manned a machine gun, with unknown results. Although Miller was awarded the Navy Cross, he was still a steward two years later when his vessel, the USS Liscome, was lost with all hands.


Other than that both movies sucked...but I pick BF Earth because it really really sucked.

Additionally, Rafe survived the Spitfire crash (somehow without having every bone in his body turn to powder) and almost lost hope but a French, what? Yes, FRENCH, trawler saved him, no doubt while they legged it to the UK to save their arses.

I'm also a little fuzzy, but the planes Daniel and Rafe flew were early mark Kittyhawks, not Wild Cats which saw service at Midway and are carrier borne.

The nurse thing I'm unsure of, I have the making of Pearl Harbor book at home (bro's so don't blame me for getting it) and I'm sure it has witness accounts of the surprise and chaos that ensued, remember that most the nurses and doctors were frsh out and the last thing they or any of America expected was a war from Japan or surprise attack.

That said, the film was popcorn only and save for Michael Bay's non-too healthy obsession with pyrotechnics (on '70s era USN ships) and the sexy Kate Beckinsale, it was a tedious yarn that is far surpassed by Tora, Tora, Tora! which being an American-Japanese production has accuracy and intrigue to help it along.

As for Battlefield Earth, I saw it again recently and saw even more Andromeda galaxy sized problems in it.

BA is by far the most shitty Hollywood film in a long time, so much so that Ed Wood should've been a part of it had he not died long ago (much to the film industry's relief).

Altough i liked the battle scenes (and looking at liv tyler ;D), pearl harbour was teh worst.


1. Zeros constently straffing men in the water fleeing from battleships when in RL the Japenese aircraft simply did their assigned jobs in terms of attack runs. They did NOT go shooting up helpless people for the fun of it.

I have no doubt the japanese did that, they are fanatics and honor is the only thing that matters for them.

2. Japenese patrol boats getting within 300 feet of the USS Hornet and dolittle raid before they were detected....and only because they transmitted on the radio.

Feasible! If it's at night, with heavy weather.

3. The Dolittle flyers on the ground heroicly fighting off an entire platoon of Jap troops, getting captured by the remainder, then overpowering their captors in a few seconds, grabing the weapons from them and killing them all.

You know hollywood

4. The Dolittle raid comming under heavier antiaircraft fire then has been seen in the history of war (especaily when the raid came under more or less none).

Oh no, thats mosquito swapping compared to 1944 europe

5. Two Wildcats shooting/destroying seven zeros and surviving when under attack by three times that number. The enemy zeros placidly following directly behind and above the aformentioned aircraft on their takeoff run, waiting till they were up in the air and manouvering before opening fire.

Yup, thats EXTREMLY difficult to do even with elite pilots. And HERESY! IT WAS P-40 WARHAWKS!

6. The aircraft waves arriving back at the Carriers and Admiral nagano happily grinning and proclaiming 'I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping Giant and fill him with Terible resolve', Yammoto's statement which was said at the end of the day in Japan in a flat and sobber tone.

Maybe he realised he would get his ass kicked.

7. The B25's on the Hornet when doing their takeoff roles not bothering to apply maximum power until they were halfway down the carrier deck on their takeoff run.

I can't explain!

8. A cook on board a battleship (can't remember which one) with no training grabbing an AA mount and blasting a zero from the sky without a problem.

You would be suprised how easy that is

9. The 1970's era USN ships sitting calmly in the background of the massive firefights.

XD

10. The Nurses in charge of the hospital and running around in chaos screaming in total opposition to the usual profesional attitudes they kept during the events.

Women XD...

11. A spitfire slaming into the English channel at full speed, not breaking up and the piolt inside more then able to get out (when its underwater), swim to the surface, then swim back to sure.

Could be done, by someone very strong...
SUPAHMAN!

Ive only seen bits and pieces of either film. Ive seen more of PH than BE. You didnt even need to see PH to know it was gonna be bad. The hype for the movie was so fricking large it just had to be terrible.j

I did notice the modern navy vessels in the background. Thought that was humorous. I hated all the low level chase scence between the Zero and Affleck.

Necro99 wrote:Altough i liked the battle scenes (and looking at liv tyler ;D), pearl harbour was teh worst.

Liv Tyler had nothing to do with that horrible movie. She wasn't in no way associated with that atrocity.

It was Kate Beckingsale in that crap trap movie.

In PH, I saw Zeros dropping ordnance on a fucking grassy field in an attempt to kill civilians. A GRASSY FUCKING FIELD!!!!!

The stupidity of Pearl Harbour is simply unimaginable.

AdmiralKanos wrote:In PH, I saw Zeros dropping ordnance on a fucking grassy field in an attempt to kill civilians. A GRASSY FUCKING FIELD!!!!!

The stupidity of Pearl Harbour is simply unimaginable.

That's nothing. Take a look at the 500 pounder that the divebomber (forgot designation) drops on the Arizona. It nullifies inertia and drops in a straight down line from a 90 degree angle in seconds. It isn't even retarded, though the guys at ILM who did the effects obviously were.

Chris O'Farrell wrote:1. Zeros constently straffing men in the water fleeing from battleships when in RL the Japenese aircraft simply did their assigned jobs in terms of attack runs. They did NOT go shooting up helpless people for the fun of it.

Right, they made their runs and immediately returned to their ships to run. They actually showed such discipline that their bombs were dropped in near-perfect formations. They did strafe during the runs to keep gunners' heads down, but that was it.

2. Japenese patrol boats getting within 300 feet of the USS Hornet and dolittle raid before they were detected....and only because they transmitted on the radio.

ROFLMAO. Apparently someone forgot that destroyer screens could almost always spot ships, particularly if it was multiple PTs.

3. The Dolittle flyers on the ground heroicly fighting off an entire platoon of Jap troops, getting captured by the remainder, then overpowering their captors in a few seconds, grabing the weapons from them and killing them all.

Gotta love Hollywood . Most likely they surrendered, since the full atrocities of the Japanese Empire weren't well known at the time.

4. The Dolittle raid comming under heavier antiaircraft fire then has been seen in the history of war (especaily when the raid came under more or less none).

The Japanese military had left the Home Islands nearly unguarded because they believed they would never be attacked. Not the brightest bunch of beauracrats.

5. Two Wildcats shooting/destroying seven zeros and surviving when under attack by three times that number. The enemy zeros placidly following directly behind and above the aformentioned aircraft on their takeoff run, waiting till they were up in the air and manouvering before opening fire.

IIRC, it was P-40s (most naval aircraft were still Brewster Buffalos), and they achieved one kill for the loss of their two aircraft (if I'm remembering my PH history correctly).

6. The aircraft waves arriving back at the Carriers and Admiral nagano happily grinning and proclaiming 'I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping Giant and fill him with Terible resolve', Yammoto's statement which was said at the end of the day in Japan in a flat and sobber tone.

Yamamoto was the only Japanese High Command officer who knew what he was doing...which was why we assassinated him.

7. The B25's on the Hornet when doing their takeoff roles not bothering to apply maximum power until they were halfway down the carrier deck on their takeoff run.

I haven't seen the scene, but I do know the engines had to be throttled up slowly with changes in the fuel mix to keep from damaging them.

8. A cook on board a battleship (can't remember which one) with no training grabbing an AA mount and blasting a zero from the sky without a problem.

Somewhat of an exaggeration, since we don't know if the cook did shoot down an airplane. I'd be more upset if they'd shown a chaplain, since that story has even less evidence.

Necro99 wrote:

Chris O'Farrell wrote: 1. Zeros constently straffing men in the water fleeing from battleships when in RL the Japenese aircraft simply did their assigned jobs in terms of attack runs. They did NOT go shooting up helpless people for the fun of it.

I have no doubt the japanese did that, they are fanatics and honor is the only thing that matters for them.

STFU, asshole.

IG-88E wrote:

Necro99 wrote:

Chris O'Farrell wrote: 1. Zeros constently straffing men in the water fleeing from battleships when in RL the Japenese aircraft simply did their assigned jobs in terms of attack runs. They did NOT go shooting up helpless people for the fun of it.

I have no doubt the japanese did that, they are fanatics and honor is the only thing that matters for them.

STFU, asshole.

I'm sure he didn't really mean that (did you?). It was a broad criticism and I have a lot of Japanese friends in R/L and online.

I haven't seen Battlefield Earth, but nothing can possibly be as bad as Pearl Harbour. I actually took a date to this movie. The experience haunts me to this day.

irishmick79 wrote:I haven't seen Battlefield Earth, but nothing can possibly be as bad as Pearl Harbour. I actually took a date to this movie. The experience haunts me to this day.

Watch BE. Then tilt your head and see how much of your brain pours out in liquid form.

Necro99 wrote:6. The aircraft waves arriving back at the Carriers and Admiral nagano happily grinning and proclaiming 'I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping Giant and fill him with Terible resolve', Yammoto's statement which was said at the end of the day in Japan in a flat and sobber tone.

Maybe he realised he would get his ass kicked.

Yamamoto didn't realize he knew, he went to Harvard, he saw the U.S.'s obscenly large industrial base. The thought of fighting America scared the shit out of him, to the moment when Japan decided to make the attack he was the most vocal opponent of war with the U.S.

Chris O'Farrell wrote:
5. Two Wildcats shooting/destroying seven zeros and surviving when under attack by three times that number. The enemy zeros placidly following directly behind and above the aformentioned aircraft on their takeoff run, waiting till they were up in the air and manouvering before opening fire.

8. A cook on board a battleship (can't remember which one) with no training grabbing an AA mount and blasting a zero from the sky without a problem.

9. The 1970's era USN ships sitting calmly in the background of the massive firefights.

Didnt two aircraft actually manage to get airborne and score a couple of kills. I thought this seen was loosely*cough* based on that?

The Cook was a real person at pearl harbour though was he not?

As to the other ships, I remember thinking "those look awfully like Spruance class destroyers" in the film, especially with the camera shot where you could still see the sea sparrow launchers even if you didnt reconise the class.

Chris O'Farrell wrote: And don't get me started on their crimes against acting.

So. Which is the worse movie. Battlefield Earth which is horrible but sci fi or Pearl Harbour which might as well have been an alternate universe Pearl Harbour for the accuracy...

Hmm..difficult to say, there was the incredible planet busting gas "just add radiation", then the cavemen flying thousand year old Harriers..and there has been far worse Hollywood revisionism *cough*U571*cough*

I'd still reckon Battlefield Earth is worse

I did`nt see the movie yet three hours is a little long time wasted with romantic crap in a war story,i suggest you watch Tora tora tora its more realistic.

and about the cook since he was in the navy he must have learn to use anti aircraft guns.

I was surprised that they managed to turn a movie named after one of the US's greatest "defeats" into a movie with a happy ending!

irishmick79 wrote:I haven't seen Battlefield Earth, but nothing can possibly be as bad as Pearl Harbour. I actually took a date to this movie. The experience haunts me to this day.

Pearl Harbor was "A day that shall live in infamy", so I think they decided to make the movie in a similar way, as in "a film that shall live in infamy".

Although I haven't seen either movie, I'd go with BE, because I've heard more bad talk about it.

12. Zero's dropping fucking bombs. Great idea, expect they only carried fuel tanks centerline at the time and without them they'd all crash on the way back to the carriers.

13. Active USAAC pilots serving in the RAF. That was illegal and never happened, those pilots who went resigned first, just like those who went to serve in the AVG. Though unlike the AVG group there was no understanding that they could come back.

14. 13.2mm AA rounds exploding with blasts suitable for 90mm guns. There was no exploding round for the Japanese 13.2mm gun in the first place. I'll give a bit for credit for actually getting a Japanese period gun though.

15. Several B-25's unloading dozens of bombs in formation. In reality they all attacked separately and had three bombs and one incendiary cluster each. Thirty Seconds over Tokyo embellished the blasts a fair bit, but they got the numbers right.

16. Pilots, who get two hours pistol training for the length of there service, running and getting hits with M1911 handgun at night in light fog.

17. A Zero on a flying so low as to acutally hit a aircraft crane on on of the battleships.

I refuse to watch Pearl Harbor. The trailers in the commercials for it had me throwing things at the TV.

As for Battlefield Earth, it was an extraordinary film that showcased the genius of both L. Ron Hubbard and John Travo.... ack...ack...ack...

Which movie is worse? I just saw PH a few days ago and still havn't got over the utterly insane way they rewrote much of the history and events in it. Some of the wonderful bits include:

1. Zeros constently straffing men in the water fleeing from battleships when in RL the Japenese aircraft simply did their assigned jobs in terms of attack runs. They did NOT go shooting up helpless people for the fun of it.

They did strafe though. But they went for ships firing, and in any case killed only a few. Two light machine guns and a pair of very slow firing cannon suck for such work.

2. Japenese patrol boats getting within 300 feet of the USS Hornet and dolittle raid before they were detected....and only because they transmitted on the radio.

We'll showing a small freighter on the horizion being blasted by a cruiser while still tiring to get off its message wouldn't be quite as exciting now would it? *Vomit*

3. The Dolittle flyers on the ground heroicly fighting off an entire platoon of Jap troops, getting captured by the remainder, then overpowering their captors in a few seconds, grabing the weapons from them and killing them all.

Must have had good instructers for those two hours of pisolt training they got back when they joined up years before.

4. The Dolittle raid comming under heavier antiaircraft fire then has been seen in the history of war (especaily when the raid came under more or less none).

All of Japan had just 250 anti aircraft guns at the time, and almost all where covering naval bases. Don't you just love the exploding heavy machine gun bullets?

5. Two Wildcats shooting/destroying seven zeros and surviving when under attack by three times that number. The enemy zeros placidly following directly behind and above the aformentioned aircraft on their takeoff run, waiting till they were up in the air and manouvering before opening fire.

They where flying P-40's. Several got off the ground along with a number of P-36's and one or two actual F4F's. They got five kills total IIRC.

6. The aircraft waves arriving back at the Carriers and Admiral nagano happily grinning and proclaiming 'I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping Giant and fill him with Terible resolve', Yammoto's statement which was said at the end of the day in Japan in a flat and sobber tone.

This is what happens when you use trivia napkins for research material.

7. The B25's on the Hornet when doing their takeoff roles not bothering to apply maximum power until they were halfway down the carrier deck on their takeoff run.

That might be possibul when you have a modern CV deck to play with………………

8. A cook on board a battleship (can't remember which one) with no training grabbing an AA mount and blasting a zero from the sky without a problem.

That happened but the kill is thought to only be legened. At least Tora Tora Tora got the gun right, a water cooled .50 cal. Moive shows a 20mm cannon, there where the whole of eight of those mounted on the ships present and none where on a battleship.

9. The 1970's era USN ships sitting calmly in the background of the massive firefights.

"Please Ignore the automatic heavy guns, missile launchers and other modern features of the Knox and Spruance vessels. With our hundreds of millions of dollars we just couldn't find money for a few CGI models."

10. The Nurses in charge of the hospital and running around in chaos screaming in total opposition to the usual profesional attitudes they kept during the events.

Its called directing, really fucking bad directing.

11. A spitfire slaming into the English channel at full speed, not breaking up and the piolt inside more then able to get out (when its underwater), swim to the surface, then swim back to sure.

Showing a main characters aircraft flipping over and sinking in 5 seconds or shattering would harm the last two hours of the movie no?

Never saw Pearl Harbor, but Battlefield Earth, was a worse adaptation from a book than was Starship Troopers.

I'd like to take Michael Bey and Jerry Bruckheimer and put their nuts in a bench-vise for Pearl Harbour. I spent the whole movie picking out each and every offensive mistake made by these two creatures in the course of a three hour film.

From carelessly showing the USS Missouri in the background of one scene to the very obviously Cold War-era Knox-class frigates seen during the attack to the idiotic Independence Day-ripoff dogfight between Ben Affleck and a Zeke to Navy stock footage of what is very obviously a modern-day battlegroup centred around a nuclear aircraft carrier being used to masquerade for the Japanese First Air Fleet and later the Doolittle Raid task force. All that fucking money they had to play with in their budget and they don't even bother trying to mask out contemporary ships and facilities (except for the opening panoramic shot of Pearl), or computer-generate an authentic World War II carrier task force. In terms of historical accuracy, the movie may as well have depicted the Japanese attacking ICBM silos on Ford Island and Godzilla trying to knock down Doolittle's bombers. And a very clichéd World War II movie romance slathered on top of the whole stinking mess to boot.

But then, Battlefield Dearth has John Travolta. Infinitely more evil.

Sea Skimmer wrote:17. A Zero on a flying so low as to acutally hit a aircraft crane on on of the battleships.

This could have happened. According to Rear Admiral Julian Becton, a Japanese airplane (during a different attack), took the colors off of the destroyer Laffey, when it went through the mess of stuff on top of the tower, taking down both the flagpole and the radar set.

Another complaint came from a person I work with who was at Pearl Harbor. According to him (I didn't see the movie), there's one scene where there's a single American biplane flying recon. He was in that unit, and they didn't have biplanes at the time, they had just modernized to monoplanes (I believe P-35s, but I may be wrong). He was pissed for about two months about that.

Battlefield Earth. A movie that even Dorkstar would agree with Mike that sucks fucking HARD! Atleast Pearl Harbor had decent CGI, even if they did fuck it up with modern-day ships and piss-pour physics.