Personality types and debating

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 10:53pm

Has anyone ever read up on personality types? I tried the test for fun, and I'm an NT personality type, which means that I respect knowledge and try to acquire it. It also means that I am contemptuous of people who are either ignorant or stupid. NT types tend to dominate the science/engineering fields.

My wife, on the other hand, tested as an NF personality types. These types are more intuitive/feeling types, and they tend to see activities in terms of "self-improvement" and "validation". They are the ones who try to "find themselves", and interestingly enough, they tend to be creative so they dominate liberal-arts and the entertainment industry.

The interesting thing is that NF types tend to perceive other peoples' motivations in terms of their own: they value actions in terms of self-improvement, self-esteem, validation, etc. You can see this in movies or for that matter, Star Trek where even military exercises are performed not to acquire knowledge or even prepare for realistic scenarios but simply to "test character" or "grow".

You also see it when an NF personality type disparages an NT personality type for blistering attacks on the ignorant or the stupid: he cannot conceive of a personality that actually feels genuine contempt for the ignorant or stupid, so he assumes there must be a hidden "self-improvement" motivation behind it all. Hence, this "validation" nonsense, which every psychobabbler trots out whenever confronted with an NT personality type.

"You're just trying to validate your own opinion by running down the opinions of others!" they scream. In their minds, this is the only logical explanation because this is the only motivation that they can understand. But what they fail to realize is that the NT personality feels his conclusions are validated by hard facts and logic and has no particular need of validating himself.

Indeed, the way to hurt an NT is to show that his conclusions are objectively wrong, since this is what he values. Mealy-mouthed nonsense about what you think his true motivations to be is just a waste of time, and is likely to incite him to start analyzing you for signs of stupidity and ignorance.

I suspect that this board attracts a lot of NT personality types.

The two types can coexist (obviously, my wife and I complement each others' strengths and weaknesses), but it is dangerous for one type to impose its perceived motivations onto the other.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-20 11:07pm

Uhm, did you two just have a fight? And where is this test? I'm not so sure I fit either category especially well.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 11:10pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Uhm, did you two just have a fight? And where is this test? I'm not so sure I fit either category especially well.

No, we never fight. I was actually talking about people who come here and try to psycho-analyze our hidden motivations.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 11:11pm

Even though I am a liberal-arts guy, myself, I am an NT personality type.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-20 11:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Uhm, did you two just have a fight? And where is this test? I'm not so sure I fit either category especially well.
No, we never fight. I was actually talking about people who come here and try to psycho-analyze our hidden motivations.

Never Fight? that's so cool I don't have words. And I see you're talking about this critter.

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame25.html

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 11:23pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Uhm, did you two just have a fight? And where is this test? I'm not so sure I fit either category especially well.
No, we never fight. I was actually talking about people who come here and try to psycho-analyze our hidden motivations.
Never Fight? that's so cool I don't have words.

When spouses fight, it doesn't matter who wins because everybody loses. If more people would understand that, we wouldn't have so many marital problems in society.

And I see you're talking about this critter.
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame25.html

Yup, that sounds like the guy. Although there are two types of "therapist"; the NF personality type for which it seems only natural (instead of debating the subject matter, talk about the debater himself, since everything revolves around people and their motivations), and the bullshitter who deliberately does it to either annoy his opponent or distract the audience. I believe the NF personality type is sincere when he/she does this, albeit misguided.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-20 11:25pm

Its the anal sex, aint it Mike? Anal sex = Happiness for all.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-20 11:34pm

That would be me (or at least my personality type.) The test is the Myers-Briggs Temperament Indicator, and I tested as an INFP. In other words, I'm pretty skewed towards "subjective" rather than "objective."

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-20 11:35pm

Darth Wong spake thusly:

Yup, that sounds like the guy. Although there are two types of "therapist"; the NF personality type for which it seems only natural (instead of debating the subject matter, talk about the debater himself, since everything revolves around people and their motivations), and the bullshitter who deliberately does it to either annoy his opponent or distract the audience. I believe the NF personality type is sincere when he/she does this, albeit misguided.

Not being the finest debater, I limit myself to stating what is obvious, verifiable, or merely common-sense. When downright flaming someone, which I do not consider to be debating, I'll go for the bullshitter therapist approach, especially if I feel there's a kernel of truth in it to REALLY annoy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 11:43pm

I should point out that there are more than just two types. I just mentioned those two because they are of particular relevance to this particular issue.

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-20 11:46pm

Well, can I take this test online?

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-01-20 11:49pm

Darth Wong wrote:Has anyone ever read up on personality types?

Yep, interesting stuff. (My full Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is INTJ.)

it is dangerous for one type to impose its perceived motivations onto the other.

This is his main point. The Feeling personality type focuses on people's feelings. The Thinking type focuses on a more logical approach. Justice means more than feelings to them, for example.

The iNtuition part of the NT and NF types doesn't play as big a role in coming to conclusions. The intuitive type has more intuition and focuses on the big picture, while the Sensing type focuses on the parts before seeing the whole; a person who focuses on procedure instead of the end results. It's how the person takes in information.

It's good to keep in mind that people with different personalities think differently. Thinking differently isn't wrong, even though the person's conclusions can be wrong. An F-type is going to be more offended by language than a T-type, so being polite and telling the F-type how wrong he or she is will be more effective than cussing them out and doing the same. It's just the way they're wired.

As for the F-types, they need to use their Feeling ability to notice that the Thinker is offended by someone claiming the Thinker is wrong without proof of that claim (for example). Hopefully, a Feeler should be able to act accordingly once they have this knowledge (they don't want to offend others, after all).

Both types need to make adjustments (if they haven't already done so), really. It'd help keeps things from blowing out of proportion like they tend to do. (Of course, there'll always be those who'd rather an F-type change to a T-type, which can be near-impossible, rather than ease up on the language.)

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-20 11:54pm

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm

also

http://quiz.ivillage.com/health/tests/pttphase1.htm

There's 16 types in total, and they should have the explanations of what those 4 letters mean on either of those sites.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-21 12:09am

I'm apparantly a INTJ. Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging. Huh.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-21 12:23am

I got a INTJ...funky.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-21 12:35am

I'd expect to see a lot of IxTx's on this board, with more IxFx's on the fic forum. My last roomie was an ISTJ, and we drove each other up the wall.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-01-21 12:56am

Hm, got INTP.

Not a bad summation, really.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-01-21 01:02am

INTP on the first test.
INFP on the second.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-21 01:05am

I, also, am an INTJ. Along with Hannibal Lecter, Woodrow Wilson, and Thomas Jefferson. Good company!

Red Knight · Post by **Red Knight** » 2003-01-21 01:52am

I got an INTP... Ive taken this test several times before, and I always get the same result.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2003-01-21 02:15am

Got INTJ on the first test and INTP on the second one.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-21 03:07am

INTP on the first test; INTP on the second test. I guess I am kind of spacially oriented...

By the way, isn't this more appropriate in Off-Topic?

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2003-01-21 04:58am

ISJT "The Elder" Whatever the hell that means.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-01-21 05:07am

On the first one (http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm):

Your Type is
ENTJ

Extroverted 56%
Intuitive 11%
Thinking 56%
Judging 1%

You are:

- moderately expressed extrovert
- slightly expressed intuitive personality
- moderately expressed thinking personality
- slightly expressed judging personality

On the second one (http://quiz.ivillage.com/health/tests/pttphase1.htm):

ESTP
"The Go-Getter"

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-01-21 05:17am

Phil Skayhan wrote:ISJT "The Elder" Whatever the hell that means.

Ditto.

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Personality types and debating

Personality types and debating

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