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Boneheads going to Iraq to be Human Sheilds

Posted: 2003-01-25 10:52pm
by Tsyroc
I can understand people being anti-war but this is just stupid. Sadam was doing this to people against their wishes last time so why would anyone volunteer to help him out? Besides, what makes them think that any military is going to feel all that sorry for people who choose to place themselves in harm's way?

:x

http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyP ... ID=2109355
LONDON (Jan. 25) - Waving goodbye to families and denouncing "imperialist" warmongering, the first convoy of Western volunteers set out from London on double-decker buses on Saturday to act as "human shields" against any attack on Iraq.

About 50 volunteers, ranging from a 19-year-old factory worker to a 60-year-old former diplomat, formed the first in a series of convoys organisers say will take hundreds of anti-war activists to Iraq.

Dismissed by critics as naively playing into Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's hands, the volunteers plan to fan out to heavily populated areas of Baghdad and other parts of the country as a deterrent to Western bombing.

"Our strategy is potentially dangerous but that is the risk we must take in standing beside our brothers and sisters in Iraq," said former U.S. marine Ken Nichols, whose Human Shield Action Iraq group is coordinating the London departures.

"We have been inundated by volunteers. This is just the first wave. I am calling for 10,000 to get down there and stop this war," he told Reuters.

Saturday's convoy -- like others being planned for early February -- will travel across Europe, picking up more people on the way, loading provisions and stopping to promote their cause.

Nichols' group is one of several around the world whose aim is to mobilise peace activists as human shields in Iraq and show solidarity with Iraqi people in the face of a possible U.S.-led war against Saddam.

FORMER HOSTAGES

The campaign has upset some among the thousands of Westerners detained by Saddam to act as shields against attacks after his 1990 invasion of Kuwait and during the 1991 Gulf War.

They feel the volunteers do not appreciate the seriousness of what they are doing and are unaware of their past suffering.

"The majority went through hell on wheels," said Steve Brookes, who ran a support group for British victims. "Of the 1,800 or so British hostages, most suffered from some form of post-traumatic stress."

Volunteers from Nichols' group, mainly from Western nations but including some from Turkey and China, insist they are not going to support Saddam but to try to prevent the death of innocent people.

"When we arrive, we will work out where the bombing is most likely to be, where there would be most casualties, and we will go there. Our purpose is to protect civilians," 32-year-old lecturer Uzma Bashir, from Yorkshire in northern England, told Reuters.

Many have had trouble convincing their families of the importance of their mission.

"Nine out of 10 of the people going as human shields are more scared of what their mothers say than the bombs in Iraq," said Bashir, who plans to join a second convoy from London.

In the Muslim world, the main rallying point for would-be human shields is in Jordan. There, a campaign led by leftist parties and civic bodies is seeking 100,000 volunteers.

Baghdad has said it will receive the volunteers with open arms and help them decide where to place themselves.

Washington and London are trying to garner international support for possible military strikes over Saddam's alleged programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction.

01/25/03 08:38 ET

Copyright 2003 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
:x

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:00pm
by LT.Hit-Man
I can respect them for this, they have the guys to stand up and if necsscery die what they beleve to be right.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:02pm
by The Dark
They chose to be there, they purposely placed themselves in the path most likely to be bombed...let's add some chlorine to the gene pool, gentlemen.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:06pm
by Shinova
This is bad. Really bad.


Many US troops might hesitate upon shooting a caucasian person. This is just....stupid and bad.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:14pm
by Sea Skimmer
We already had a thread on this a couple days ago :roll:

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:16pm
by Shadow WarChief
They're going as human shields to defend a man forces his people to act as human shields normally, gassed the kurds and invaded Kuwait for no good reason ?

And they think this is NOT going to encourage an invasion how exactly because right now the slim chance that some of these idiots will be expunged from the gene pool is a very favorable idea to me.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:18pm
by LT.Hit-Man
The Dark wrote:They chose to be there, they purposely placed themselves in the path most likely to be bombed...let's add some chlorine to the gene pool, gentlemen.
And what are you willing to die for?

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:21pm
by Sea Skimmer
LT.Hit-Man wrote:
The Dark wrote:They chose to be there, they purposely placed themselves in the path most likely to be bombed...let's add some chlorine to the gene pool, gentlemen.
And what are you willing to die for?
These people aren't intent on dieing, or even significantly risking their lives. The entire point is to prevent any action from being taken against whatever sites there at. If they wanted to join the Iraqi army, then you'd have a point.

Of course the current adminstration will likely order that they be ignored, and the places flattened anyway.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:22pm
by The Dark
LT.Hit-Man wrote:
The Dark wrote:They chose to be there, they purposely placed themselves in the path most likely to be bombed...let's add some chlorine to the gene pool, gentlemen.
And what are you willing to die for?
I don't know. Unless the situation came up, I'm not sure what I would die before. I'm fairly certain I would die to save my friends or family, but other than that I don't believe there is anything that I am certain I would sacrifice myself for.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:23pm
by LT.Hit-Man
Shinova wrote:This is bad. Really bad.


Many US troops might hesitate upon shooting a caucasian person. This is just....stupid and bad.
Maybe they will and I hope so
Even though I respect for what there doing I agree with you that this is bad
As for what there doing being stupid I disagree with you on that if the US had gotten Sadamm the frist time around there would not be this problem.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:23pm
by Darth Garden Gnome
I certaintly wouldn't sacrifice myself (inadvertantly) to Saddam Hussein though. That is just stupid.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:25pm
by Admiral Valdemar
LT.Hit-Man wrote:
Shinova wrote:This is bad. Really bad.


Many US troops might hesitate upon shooting a caucasian person. This is just....stupid and bad.
Maybe they will and I hope so
Even though I respect for what there doing I agree with you that this is bad
As for what there doing being stupid I disagree with you on that if the US had gotten Sadamm the frist time around there would not be this problem.
If you hesitate in battle, you're dead. Simple as. The army guys don't know why the caucasian people will be there, they could be threats and it's a shoot first, ask questions later scenario usually.

If you go to a warzone don't start moaning about casualties.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:26pm
by LT.Hit-Man
[quote="The Dark

I don't know. Unless the situation came up, I'm not sure what I would die before. I'm fairly certain I would die to save my friends or family, but other than that I don't believe there is anything that I am certain I would sacrifice myself for.[/quote]

I can understand that but look at what there doing this way they fell so strongly that what there doing is moraly right that they are willing to put there lives on the line for it we might see this as insane but from there POV they see it as sane because they think that there actions will spare people alot of unnessary suffering.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:35pm
by The Dark
LT.Hit-Man wrote:
The Dark wrote:
I don't know. Unless the situation came up, I'm not sure what I would die before. I'm fairly certain I would die to save my friends or family, but other than that I don't believe there is anything that I am certain I would sacrifice myself for.
I can understand that but look at what there doing this way they fell so strongly that what there doing is moraly right that they are willing to put there lives on the line for it we might see this as insane but from there POV they see it as sane because they think that there actions will spare people alot of unnessary suffering.
I suppose you may be right. However, if we look at this, we can see that
1) Saddam Hussein's government undertakes immoral actions
2) Hussein's support of these immoral actions means Hussein is an immoral person
3) To support an immoral person is immoral
Thus, the actions of these people is immoral. It may be sane, but it is not moral, and I for one don't really care whether these people survive the war or not. That may sound callous, but they chose to enter the war zone. Their lives are their responsibilities.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:42pm
by The Duchess of Zeon
A large percentage of the U.S. Army recruiting pool consists of blacks, hispanics, and other ethnic minorities in-country. The Army - and the Marines - Have always been ways for them to raise themselves up, especially when they arrive as immigrants.

Do you really think those guys would give a damn if they were shooting at a caucasian? Please (And I'm not implying anything by that, except that there'd be no "racial affiliation"). This entire thing is based on the ludicrous notion that the war is being entered into for racist purposes, which it isn't. You can argue economic ones, but racist ones? There's going to be Iraqis in the U.S. Army!

Besides, most of the killing of these idiots will take place from the air. Under the Geneva Conventions - because they're voluntarily aiding and abetting the enemy - we don't have to afford them the normal protections of civilians in a war zone. So we can just plan strikes of areas Saddam has them packed around and send them their Darwins in the form of LGBs.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:43pm
by Shinova
Though if the US military ended up killing a few europeans, some europeans back in europe and people here might start going,

"LOOK! They killed American/European people! Try them for war crimes!!!"

Or something like that.

Posted: 2003-01-25 11:49pm
by The Dark
Shinova wrote:Though if the US military ended up killing a few europeans, some europeans back in europe and people here might start going,

"LOOK! They killed American/European people! Try them for war crimes!!!"

Or something like that.
And that's precisely why Bush refused to accept the validity of the World Court on US soldiers. They can bitch all they want, but they cannot legally demand extradition.

Posted: 2003-01-26 12:02am
by GrandMasterTerwynn
Well, it's good to see people lining up to naturally de-select themselves. I'm sorry, but these people don't get the fact that the Hussein regime has worked very hard to bring this on themselves.

To all who replyed to my reply to this post

Posted: 2003-01-26 12:21am
by LT.Hit-Man
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner had some PM's to answer.
Anyways I can see all of your points and this matter, no will know for cretin who's worng or who's right on this but one thing is known for sure that this is just goning to make a bad mess a lot worse. :(

Re: To all who replyed to my reply to this post

Posted: 2003-01-26 01:39am
by Knife
LT.Hit-Man wrote:Sorry for not getting back to you sooner had some PM's to answer.
Anyways I can see all of your points and this matter, no will know for cretin who's worng or who's right on this but one thing is known for sure that this is just goning to make a bad mess a lot worse. :(
I don't think so. Most of these people will be idealists and wannabies. When and if there is an attack on Bagdad, the civilians that can will flee and these stupid fucks will be standing there alone in the middle of a battlefield. My guess is that once shit hits the fan, they will relocate to a safer area(probably under the protection of the people they are protesting) and spend the rest of the conflict bitching and moaning at the press about the evil US and its allies.

Posted: 2003-01-26 02:00am
by RedImperator
Shinova wrote:Though if the US military ended up killing a few europeans, some europeans back in europe and people here might start going,

"LOOK! They killed American/European people! Try them for war crimes!!!"

Or something like that.
Unless some sort of great IQ plague strikes Europe, I can't imagine anyone but the most hardcore leftist getting themselves worked up over the deaths of pampered idiots who volunteered to stand underneath the bombs, and frankly, those same leftists would screech about the war anyway.

Posted: 2003-01-26 02:29am
by weemadando
LT.Hit-Man wrote:I can respect them for this, they have the guys to stand up and if necsscery die what they beleve to be right.
Seconded.

I wouldn't do it, but I can see why they are doing it.

Posted: 2003-01-26 04:52am
by Beowulf
Evolution in action...

Posted: 2003-01-26 06:19am
by SylasGaunt
Oi.. that has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Oh well they walked into a warzone it's their own damn fault if they get killed.

Posted: 2003-01-26 06:37am
by Mr Bean
A large percentage of the U.S. Army recruiting pool consists of blacks, hispanics, and other ethnic minorities in-country. The Army - and the Marines - Have always been ways for them to raise themselves up, especially when they arrive as immigrants.
Yes it does however front line fighters have since the 80s been predominatly white, Mintories compose less than 20% of our Fighting Force the vast Majority being poor urban whites(US State Deparment Numbers 2003)


Anyway there WAS a thread about this and... I will correct that