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I live on a farm. I battle mice constantly. I raise and kill my own animals for meat, so I'm not a squeamish "omg the pooooor mousie" person.

But I still don't see the purpose in anything, be it a mouse, a cockroach, a cute wittle fuzzy puppy, a cow, or a human, suffering needlessly. Choosing to "not give a shit because it's 'just' a mouse" is fucking lame and an excuse for being emotionally immature. Having empathy is a good thing. I have no problem with killing mice that rip open feed bags and chew leather harnesses and shit and piss everywhere. Do I think that because they do what they do I should enjoy and/or not be upset by seeing them suffer terribly?

No, because that's fucking sociopathic and stupid.

Mice aren't malicious beings of destruction, they're fucking animals. Like a dog. Or a cat. I'll kill a mouse that fucks with my stuff as quickly as I'll kill a dog that's after my chickens, but I won't think it's humorous and I won't enjoy it and I'll do everything possible to make sure it's done quickly and painlessly. They're just trying to make a living, just like you are. People having contempt for mice because they're SO MEAN AND VILE as to chew their stuff and shit everywhere and cause problems, they're just as guilty of anthropomorphism as people squealing "OH GOOD THAT POOOR MOUSIE, ITS MOUSIE HUSBAND WILL DIE OF A BROKEN HEART IF YOU KILL IT."

They're fucking mice. They don't know what they're doing, they're not malicious, and not caring if one suffers because "they're just vermin" is stupid. They feel pain and are capable of feeling terror and suffering. That alone makes them worth not torturing because "lawl its jusssss a mouse."

... and for skimming over that rant, I have gained what, exactly?

TithonusSyndrome wrote:... and for skimming over that rant, I have gained what, exactly?

What ever you want to, matey.

I just wanted to see if anyone else agreed with me - had this discussion with a work colleague of mine and was just in a ranting kinda mood *shrugs*.

Probably should've gone into 'venting' then.

Well, I do agree then. Mice are just mice, they don't have any ill intent.

Vermin should be killed, but I do not see the point in making them suffer. Even from a coldly utilitarian perspective, it is a waste of energy, as it benefits neither me nor them; to that, I would add my own moral objections.

Yes, I would agree it is pretty much just common sense.

I'd have to say I agree.

I have no problem with mice in the great outdoors, but in my home they are to be exterminated. I prefer to use quick methods that are as pain free as possible because suffering, as a rule, is not good regardless of sufferer. Nothing personal, I just can't have them eat my food, bothering my pets, or worse yet, chewing electrical wiring and potentially causing the place to burn down. If there was a practical way to catch and release I'd go for it, but there isn't. Sorry, mice - come into my home and you will die.

Ditto for anything else that is acting as vermin.

Along those lines, does anyone else think those traps for mice that are nothing but big sheets of really sticky carboard are cruel?

They use them at work and I think they are awful. The mouse finds itself glued to the paper but still alive and terrified. Then the card just gets thrown out with the mouse left to either die of dehydration or starvation.

I much prefer the mouse traps that either kill them outright or catch them alive so they can be released outside.

We've used those sticky-traps at home, but when he hear the mouse squeal (and they do squeal when they get stuck) we kill them, then dispose of them. We do not leave them to suffer, because yes, they do suffer if you don't kill them quickly. It's cruel to throw the trap out with a living mouse stuck to it, to die slowly.

We use those less and less. Nothing really beats the old snap->broken neck technique.

Tsyroc wrote:Along those lines, does anyone else think those traps for mice that are nothing but big sheets of really sticky carboard are cruel?

They use them at work and I think they are awful. The mouse finds itself glued to the paper but still alive and terrified. Then the card just gets thrown out with the mouse left to either die of dehydration or starvation.

I much prefer the mouse traps that either kill them outright or catch them alive so they can be released outside.

Absolutely. The best kind of mouse trap is the kind that catches them alive so you can safely relocate it, or one that kills them without suffering.

Tsyroc wrote:Along those lines, does anyone else think those traps for mice that are nothing but big sheets of really sticky carboard are cruel?

They use them at work and I think they are awful. The mouse finds itself glued to the paper but still alive and terrified. Then the card just gets thrown out with the mouse left to either die of dehydration or starvation.

Oh god yes. They should be illegal - truly a thing of evil... the poor little things literally rip themselves to shreds trying to get off. It's so barbaric that our government will ban them. Heck, all the hardware and supermarket chains don't sell them anymore and the RSPCA condemns them. And why the fuck would someone throw a live creature out like that leaving it to starve? Some people are just arseholes. I won't throw paint at people who want to get rid of vermin, but geez... those "glue traps" seem like torture, and not a solution.

It reminds me of The Twits - anyone read that as a kid?

I have a clever little mouse trap that I'm fond of. It's a pair of plastic boxes, one of which has an opening at one end. The mouse goes in the hole and wiggles around a little twist to get at the peanut butter you put in there (the twist prevents pets or small children from getting in there), but right when he reaches the bait, he crosses a pair of metal contacts. In the other box is a step-up transformer and a pair of AA batteries.

It's a silent and very fast death. The box it came in says it's "certified humane for EU markets" or some such thing (could be bullshit, who knows). But it's a highly effective trap and the batteries last forever. 'Course, I'm moving in with the GF in a couple weeks , so that won't be necessary anymore. Partly because it's a much nicer neighborhood, but mostly because she has two cats.

I do have to add that I seem to have a pyschotic hatred for pigeons. Every time I see one I want to go fetch my airgun and shot the fucker dead (not that I was successful at any one time). I am not sure why I have such hatred, aside that fact that I often hear these fuckers on my alcove hooting awfully, which wakes me up.

Zixinus wrote:I do have to add that I seem to have a pyschotic hatred for pigeons. Every time I see one I want to go fetch my airgun and shot the fucker dead (not that I was successful at any one time). I am not sure why I have such hatred, aside that fact that I often hear these fuckers on my alcove hooting awfully, which wakes me up.

Then you've never seen one of them kill one of his mates just for kicks, I take it?

Some symbols of peace they are...

Zixinus wrote:I do have to add that I seem to have a pyschotic hatred for pigeons. Every time I see one I want to go fetch my airgun and shot the fucker dead (not that I was successful at any one time). I am not sure why I have such hatred, aside that fact that I often hear these fuckers on my alcove hooting awfully, which wakes me up.

Well at least you shoot them dead rather than maiming them.

That's sort of the point of this thread - I mean, you hate pigeons but torturing them would be very uncool. I hate spiders with a loathing I can't adequately describe, but I don't torture them, I kill 'em. Quickly.

I have 5 acres, a barn and a large house along with a lot of cats. Sometimes a cat will find a mouse and start to play with it. I try to capture the poor thing before the cat can hurt it and then toss it back outside. I would prefer to trap and release than outright kill it, after all they have a life to live too. OTOH If I see a coyote, out comes the sniper rifle and a dead yote will soon become.

Well at least you shoot them dead rather than maiming them. Confused

I never actually been able to shot one. By the time I am able to get the mentioned airgun and load it AND get aim, the thing is always gone.

I am not completely serious about shooting them but that is the reflex I have. God, I hate those fuckers for some reason.

When I get rid of vermin, I don't take pleasure in it, but I don't avoid it. I do what I need to do to keep the place clean, that is all, and no more. If a mouse is caught in a trap and is still alive, out comes my rubber mallet and I end its suffering right then and there. No need to fuss, no need to cry, and no need to torment it. It's work to be done, and nothing else.

Can I just say I had a humourous mental image when you said you "battled" mice constantly?

Instant death to all scouts and foragers probably reduces the population that will have to be dealt with later, and thus reduces overall suffering of creatures and effort by the human inhabitants. And enjoying any suffering is a sign of something wrong. I deeply repent of my early days with the magnifying glass.

I lit into my roommate when I found a mouse whose rear leg was only caught in a mouse trap and he cut it's head off. I was going to put my shoes on and let it out at the funeral grounds across the street only to come back and see it decapitated.

The snapping mousetraps always did the job in my house, no need to cause extra pain.

The snapping ones don't always work though, I woke up one morning to discover one had been set off and was empty. Empty except for a single mouse leg in it. Spent the rest of the morning playing find the three-legged mouse.

Sure I agree with the opening post.

Dispassionate killing is my preferred practice.