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Let's say that Iraq, anticipating an invasion, prepared a means to strike back at the heart of the enemy: Loading up a large merchant cargo vessel with large numbers of soldiers (several thousand) complete with AK-47s, grenade launchers, mortars, some MBT's etc. and sent them towards the atlantic as war neared...

The vessel would preferably be a bulk cargo vessel or a container ship in excess of 100,000 tons displacement. Modified to facilitate use as a troop ship and for heavy vehicle transport and quick debarkation. Probably aquired via a dummy corporation that was a front for the Iraqi government.

Here's a possible assault force which could concievably be put aboard such a ship:

One army division (8,000-10,000 men)

A 1,000-man Republican Gaurd unit.

Sixty T55/T62 or Chinese Type-59 tanks

Twenty T-72 tanks

Forty 155mm towed artillery, with vechicles to tow them.

Several hundred 81mm and 120mm mortars.

Two Mi-24 HIND attack helicopters. (Yes, Iraq does in fact have them, several dozen in fact). Concealed on deck for quick prep and takeoff.

The ship sails to a city such as New York... then docks as if it were a normal mercantile vessel. Only then is the full horror revealed... as hatches open in the side and ramps drop down, the thousands of men running out... the tanks coming, the artillery pieces... all moving out and heading towards pre-planned points in the totally unsuspecting city.

So anyway:

Could they storm the city and take control of it?

Could they hold it long enough to make demands and force negotiation/successfully sue for peace?

Could anything they did cause the US to stop the war?

How long could they conceivably hold it if they managed to secure the city?

The force would probably be halfed by all the country yokles, gangebangers, cops, and paranoids in this country. Either that or the would just throw the weapons down when they pass the first supermarket and see all the damn food.

They'll create one hell of a mess, but they won't take control. If it's a suicide mission to create as much havoc as possible, they would succeed admirably, but to take control of the entire city, no way.

after the loss of loads of civilians the us army would fry the irakis in no time.

They'd be beaten down after a few days.

I would think at first surprise would be on the Iraq side, but word would quickly get out on radio, tv, and the internet. An invasion of the US would outrage Americans and you would see an instant unification of this country calling for the end of Iraq as a nation state.

I would image that throughout the day local groups of Reservists and National Guardsmen would report to their bases to form up and organize small units to start fighting back with what ever weapons they had on the scene.

I dont think the military would keen on using air power in this scenario because it might cause way to many deaths on our side if something went wrong.

The Iraqi Hind's would never stand a chance. The entire Iraqi force would not stand a chance once word gets out. Scores of Americans with guns would begin acting as partisians. People like me with out guns, would either join up with people who have some, or grab a pair of binoculars and a notepad and start feeding info to my friends who are in a Reserve unit about Iraq positions via cell phone, internet, whatever.

The tanks in a heavily urbanized area like NY would present a huge problem cause they would have to be dug out, but still they would eventually all die.

Would be way easier to smuggle a biological weapon into the city.

In any case, once the US army gets rolling the Iraqis are fucked. There is NO way they can get reinforcements or supplies of ammo. We'd be looking on some nasty house-to-house fighting and a lot of civilian casualties, but in the end the Iraqis would be defeated without any negotiations.

We'd give em 30 seconds to surrender, if they refuse Iraq disappears in a white flash.

I think that it would be funner if the military didn't get involved.

ArmorPierce wrote:I think that it would be funner if the military didn't get involved.

You think a rack server chucked out a 40th story window would really fuck up an Iraq soft skinned vehicle?

There are probably more guns on Manhattan Island alone than there are in the arsenals of some nation states. And frankly, the guys with guns at 128th and Broadway are scarier than the guys with guns coming off the cargo ship. And NYC is a guerilla's wet dream. The Iraqis cause tons of havoc, but at the cost of 24 hour harassment from partisans, and then the US Army comes to deliver a stomping.

The Guard takes them out, Depending on where they land the Arbams can come off the pratice field and start rolling in to stop them

Hell don't forget War Musems, I know my local one has over five thousand rounds of Ammo for a old MG-42(Still serviced) and a #%#%# Armed Sherman Tank, Armed of course once we remove the barrel block which can be uninstalled in under an hour(We are not required to permantly disarm them here)

I would however just LOVE... LOVE to see them try and Invade in Texas

I would however just LOVE... LOVE to see them try and Invade in Texas

Any state that posts signs on stores "Please no conceled firearms." is a partisian nightmare for invaders.

Mr Bean wrote:Hell don't forget War Musems, I know my local one has over five thousand rounds of Ammo for a old MG-42(Still serviced) and a #%#%# Armed Sherman Tank, Armed of course once we remove the barrel block which can be uninstalled in under an hour(We are not required to permantly disarm them here)

In the UK there's a war museum with an operational SCUD TEL, complete with missile (no warhead, no fuel obviously).

It would be much more effective if they put tons of chemical weapons on the cargo ship, with a skeleton crew and several transport helicopters.

Eveyone lets drop them in LA without the LAPD too inervene. I wonder how many tankbusters those gangs have.

They have a complete lack of AA capacity, so their unconceable heavy vehicles is toast.

The rest, well, ppl have GUNZ in the country :p

SWPIGWANG wrote:They have a complete lack of AA capacity, so their unconceable heavy vehicles is toast.

The rest, well, ppl have GUNZ in the country :p

How effective is airpower going to be against ground targets in streets lined with buildings that are almost all at least 50 stories tall?

What i heard a few years ago,they said on the news the american military can fight anywhere in the world but if there was a direct combat against an enemy on american soil they would be powerless to engage combat.

Eveyone lets drop them in LA without the LAPD too inervene. I wonder how many tankbusters those gangs have.

Six Operational Panzerfausts at the musem, how would those fair aginst their tanks?

Correct me if I'm wrong, New Yorkers, but doesn't the NYPD have in excess of 50,000 officers?

phongn wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:Hell don't forget War Musems, I know my local one has over five thousand rounds of Ammo for a old MG-42(Still serviced) and a #%#%# Armed Sherman Tank, Armed of course once we remove the barrel block which can be uninstalled in under an hour(We are not required to permantly disarm them here)

In the UK there's a war museum with an operational SCUD TEL, complete with missile (no warhead, no fuel obviously).

There's a guy in California who has two of them along with a few hundred other military vehicles. But the US government took one of them to use out on its training ranges.

The ship and armor would be soon burning hulks from Pennsylvania ANG A-10's, there within easy range. There are plenty of F-16's around as well. The mobilizing city National Guard combined with the thousands of cops and armed citizens who would be shooting would prevent them from making any really significant gains. And they'd soon be crushed when the 82's alert brigade starts showing up along with a few dozen other units.

There's a guy in California who has two of them along with a few hundred other military vehicles. But the US government took one of them to use out on its training ranges.

Did they pay him for it ? I would hope so.

About the only functional muesum piece around me that I know of is a Liberty ship. It still works but wouldnt be much help here except mabye to evacuate casulties.

The Russians had their fourth points of contact handed to them when they invaded Grozny with four reinforced combat brigades. The widespread use of the RPG-7 (especially as a volly-fire weapon system) has forever changed the face of mechanized warfare in urban terrain. For those who think that urban warfare is a cakewalk, I invite you to study the following lessons-learned, focusing specifically on the Russian campaign in Grozny and the surrounding area:
http://call.army.mil/homepage/mout.htm

Some will say, "But New Yorkers don't have RPG-7s." To which I reply they are very easy to obtain and are relatively inexpensive (again, look at the referenced CALL page).