ROTFLOLOL! Japanese tell NK that...

GileadPellaeon · Post by **GileadPellaeon** » 2003-02-16 10:28am

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 00992.html

We'll attack, Japan tells North Korea

February 15 2003
By Shane Green
Japan Correspondent
Tokyo

Japan has warned that it is prepared to launch a strike against North Korea if it believes the communist state is preparing a ballistic missile attack on it.

In Tokyo's most robust military stance since the end of World War II, Defence Minister Shigeru Ishiba said Japan would be prepared to strike if it detected North Korea was fuelling ballistic missiles in preparation for an attack.

"It is too late if (a missile) flies towards Japan," Mr Ishiba said. "Our nation will use military force as a self-defence measure if (North Korea) starts to resort to arms against Japan."

Mr Ishiba was at pains to portray a Japanese strike against North Korea as an act of self-defence, in line with Japan's post-war constitution, which forbids military aggression.

But his warning pushes constitutional restraint to the limits, and sends a clear message that Japan will not be a passive target.

As the crisis over North Korea's nuclear arms program worsens, Pyongyang has issued increasingly
strident warnings that it is prepared to strike against US forces in the region and their allies. Japan, a chief ally, is within easy missile range.

North Korea maintained its strong line yesterday, rejecting this week's decision by the United Nations nuclear watchdog to refer the nuclear crisis to the UN Security Council.

The North's official Korean Central News Agency dismissed the International Atomic Energy Agency as "America's lapdog", saying Pyongyang had no obligations to the IAEA since its withdrawal from the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty last month.

On Wednesday the IAEA declared North Korea in breach of atomic safeguards, sending the crisis to the 15-nation Security Council.

It was not immediately clear exactly what form any Japan strike against North Korea could take. The country has well-equipped forces but is more geared towards self-defence.

Mr Ishiba's warning will further raise tension in the crisis over North Korea's nuclear arms program.

The US yesterday reaffirmed that it would not immediately push for UN sanctions following the IAEA decision, instead continuing to pursue a diplomatic solution.

The Japanese defence chief also gave his strong support to the development of a missile defence shield with the US, part of Washington's push for a national missile defence system for US forces and allies in Asia.

Japan is extremely vulnerable to a missile attack. In 1998 North Korea test-fired a missile over Japan that landed in the Pacific. Since then, Tokyo and Washington have been researching a missile defence system.

Mr Ishiba foreshadowed a boosting of Japan's own forces to lessen its reliance on US forces based in the country, saying there was no "free ride" in the post-Cold War era.

The North Korean crisis is also certain to provide impetus to push special emergency legislation through the Diet, Japan's parliament, designed to prepare the country for an attack.

The legislation was bogged down in the Diet last year, but the Government is making a renewed push to have it passed in the current session.

Mr Ishiba's comments came as the the US Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, James Kelly, said he believed the North Korean crisis could prompt Japan to rethink its position as a non-nuclear weapons state.

"Certainly, this is a problem that is of a very serious impact on Japan and will cause Japan to rethink all of its positions," he told the House of Representatives International Relations Committee.

But Mr Kelly - the official to whom North Korea confessed to having a nuclear arms program last September - said he believed Japan would stay non-nuclear while it remained under the US nuclear umbrella.

Separately, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld signalled a possible overhaul of US forces in South Korea, which could include a reduction in the 37,000 troops stationed there.

He told a congressional hearing that he would like to see forces moved away from the heavily fortified border and the South Korean capital, Seoul.

- with agencies

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-02-16 10:30am

Why is this a funny thing? You would think after being the only nation to have actually suffered a nuclear attack, not once but twice, that it wouldn't want another one.

GileadPellaeon · Post by **GileadPellaeon** » 2003-02-16 10:31am

Crown wrote:Why is this a funny thing? You would think after being the only nation to have actually suffered a nuclear attack, not once but twice, that it wouldn't want another one.

The Japs have said that they could make about 1000~ nukes in a few months
using the plutonium from their nuclear power program.....

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-02-16 10:35am

And...? They have been using Nuclear power for a very long time you know. Are you saying that they don't have the weapons grade material for it? That they don't have the skilled knowledge to do so? Or that they haven't demonstrated the ability to mass-produce anything?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-02-16 10:36am

Crown wrote:And...? They have been using Nuclear power for a very long time you know. Are you saying that they don't have the weapons grade material for it? That they don't have the skilled knowledge to do so? Or that they haven't demonstrated the ability to mass-produce anything?

No he's saying that NK will get glassed.

GileadPellaeon · Post by **GileadPellaeon** » 2003-02-16 10:37am

Crown wrote:And...? They have been using Nuclear power for a very long time you know.

North Korea is truley very well FUCKED now, that's the point. And besides,
it's nice to see someone willing to take the trash out in their neighborhood
instead of having the USA do it all for them...

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-02-16 10:40am

My apologise, its 3am here and miss-comunication obviously took place.

AWACS · Post by **AWACS** » 2003-02-16 11:03am

Nice to see that the Japs have finally found their balls again.

You know less than a percent of their GNP goes to the military... yet because Japan is so fabulously wealthy, it's still $40 billion. That's more than the Brits spend ($35 bil or so) and the Brit military budget is at least 2-3% of their GNP.

If Japanese military spending was in line with that of the US (as a % of their GNP) they could build a military that was in the entire world second only to the US.

NK is fucked.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-16 11:16am

That would be an interesting attack, since Japan has a marginal PGM capability and that’s mostly anti ship missiles that have secondary ground attack mods. I'm not sure they have any form of SEAD capability at all.

Don't be suprised if a plane load of JDAM kits suddenly deverts to Japan.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-02-16 11:57am

I thot there were second largest already. lol.

I wonder if we will bring nk to heel in a few months as well.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-16 12:18pm

How is this funny at all? Now not only has NK stated they're willing to preemptively attack US military targets, but Japan just said they're willing to attack if they see NK fueling their missiles... without any knowledge of who's getting hit!

Tensions are going up, and I'd really rather not see any nukes flying around.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-02-16 12:41pm

Methinks that you missed the couple of posts afterwards.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-02-16 02:17pm

Japan could not attack N. Korea with ground units as the JGSDF currently is dispositioned (and at its relatively small strength), but the Japanese Naval forces could put a hurting on N. Korea with near impunity.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-02-16 02:20pm

Welcome back Mark/Ryan

boy that & Taiwan having some too, would really make things "Interesting" fairly shortly, now if China manages to piss off India....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-16 02:21pm

Japan has demonstrated the ability to execute a rapid military buildup before.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-02-16 02:22pm

Red Sun Rising..

I think SK will actually like it if Japan occupies part of the peninsula this time. Not like itll happen tho. LOL

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-16 02:34pm

jegs2 wrote:Japan could not attack N. Korea with ground units as the JGSDF currently is dispositioned (and at its relatively small strength), but the Japanese Naval forces could put a hurting on N. Korea with near impunity.

No, they really couldn't. Sinking a bunch of 50's warships is easy enough, but Japans naval land attack capability is limited to gunfire and they might be able to use SSM's and SAM's against shore targets with big distinctive radar signatures like oil tanks.

However they'd face a heavy threat from mines, and costal artillery, missiles are a lesser threta becuaseo f there age. Without heavy USAF cover, I'd rather be manning the shore guns though.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-16 02:55pm

Japan would not and could not commit ground forces on its own,. They have something of a gator fleet, but it can only move brigade-sized forces. Their Army, while having good equipment has shit for training. There they have few training areas, and live fire and maneuvers are very restricted and only small scale.

However, while this wont be happening anytime soon, If South Korea was invaded its convincible Japanese forces could be sent. As it is, and as it's likely to be for decades more, a North South war would be over before the Japanese could ship in anything. And the South's reserves can deal with any counter offensive.

IIRC, Japans constitution currently only allows for about 1500 troops with light weapons to be out of the country, and only then on peacekeeping missions.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-02-16 04:48pm

kojikun wrote:Red Sun Rising..

I think SK will actually like it if Japan occupies part of the peninsula this time. Not like itll happen tho. LOL

Definatily(sp) not going to happened, SK still remembers the last time Japan occupied them.

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2003-02-16 08:47pm

kojikun wrote:Red Sun Rising..

I think SK will actually like it if Japan occupies part of the peninsula this time. Not like itll happen tho. LOL

No way. SK will not want to see Japanese troops land on the peninsula.

XPViking

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-02-16 08:49pm

does that stand even after Seoul has been nukified?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-02-16 09:13pm

I'm not plenty impressed with Japan's modern military, to be honest. Their last venture into fighters, for example, the F-2, turned out to be an underpowered F-16 copy with an unreliable radar, that to boot was ridiculously expensive.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-16 09:15pm

kojikun wrote:does that stand even after Seoul has been nukified?

At that point the North is a nuclear wasteland, there would be no need for Japanese troops. Even a few nukes used tactically would destroy any hope the North would have for a successful offensive. And by successful I mean reach Seoul, they don't have the fuel to even encircle it.

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2003-02-16 09:19pm

kojikun wrote:does that stand even after Seoul has been nukified?

Don't know. But many Koreans don't like the Japanese and are reluctant to have Japanese troops land on the peninsula. In my opinion, if Japanese troops were to land (either by themselves or as part of a UN coalition) then the Koreans would want them to leave first after all is said and done.

XPViking

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-16 09:27pm

Vympel wrote:I'm not plenty impressed with Japan's modern military, to be honest. Their last venture into fighters, for example, the F-2, turned out to be an underpowered F-16 copy with an unreliable radar, that to boot was ridiculously expensive.

Yes Japan really should have just bought or produced the F-16 Block50/52.

The F-2 not bad that bad for anti shipping though, against the threat warships anyway. And that was its main mission. But I agree, Japan has some good equipment but overall there military is not fit for anything but defensive air and naval actions.

They do have whats likely the worlds best SSK class though, in the form of the Oyashio's. Of course why bother when a mobile minefield when you can just lay hundreds of the fixed kind.