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I dont want this debate to for war/against war. We all know where most of us stand. What I want to talk about is Sadam. Do you think he is dumb? Do think he is crazy?

I dont think Sadam is stupid, if he was he would not have lasted this long. But I kinda scratch my head at his refusal to cooperate with disarmament. Doesnt he understand Bush means business? It occured to me that maybe Sadam is fatalistic. Perhaps he believes he is gonna die in a conflict anyway so he wants to preserve as much weapons as possible to do damage to the US and Isreal.

What do you think about him? What makes him tick?

TrailerParkJawa wrote:I dont want this debate to for war/against war. We all know where most of us stand. What I want to talk about is Sadam. Do you think he is dumb? Do think he is crazy?

He is an asshole of roughly average intelligence whose actions are basically directed by his situation.

I dont think Sadam is stupid, if he was he would not have lasted this long. But I kinda scratch my head at his refusal to cooperate with disarmament. Doesnt he understand Bush means business?

He understands that Bush wants him out of power, so he's in a Catch-22 situation. If he destroys the weapons, he has nothing but his conventional military forces (and we've seen how weak they are in relation to American power) to keep the Americans from conquering Iraq and then executing or imprisoning him (or for that matter, to suppress insurrection in his own country). If he doesn't destroy the weapons, then he runs the risk that America will invade his country anyway, killing or executing him in the process.

It occured to me that maybe Sadam is fatalistic. Perhaps he believes he is gonna die in a conflict anyway so he wants to preserve as much weapons as possible to do damage to the US and Isreal.

I think he might be waiting for the eve of war to bring out the weapons and destroy them in public view, thus taking the wind out of Bush's sails [EDIT: assuming he has any significant amounts of them left; at this point, it would have been smart to keep some because then he could bring them out and give them up in a big public 11th hour display].

What do you think about him? What makes him tick?

Everything he's done for the last ten years has been guided by the simple desire to remain in power and stay alive. I don't believe there are any more layers to the man than that.

Is he stupid? No way, he wouldn't have survived this long and be in this position if he was. He might misjudge things but he isn't stupid.


Is he crazy? Not really. If you mean raving loon then definetely not. But I think to him the people around him aren't real. They're like carboard cutout, people shaped things. He's completely amoral and by all accounts his sons are worse.

I think he might be waiting for the eve of war to bring out the weapons and destroy them in public view, thus taking the wind out of Bush's sails [EDIT: assuming he has any significant amounts of them left; at this point, it would have been smart to keep some because then he could bring them out and give them up in a big public 11th hour display].

Interesting, I had not of him trying something like this. Assuming he does the trick would be to time it just right.

Is he crazy? Not really. If you mean raving loon then definetely not. But I think to him the people around him aren't real. They're like carboard cutout, people shaped things. He's completely amoral and by all accounts his sons are worse.

I dont think he is crazy either, but seeing people as cardboard cutouts is a good description.

A man who has every potentiel opposition members executed when he took charge of his country is fucking dangerous for the world.

Montcalm wrote:A man who has every potentiel opposition members executed when he took charge of his country is fucking dangerous for the world.

That's politics for ya...

is he crazy? I guess in a sense he is. He's willing to risk mothers and children in a war against the US. Stupid...maybe not. But he's not too intellegent either. Anyone who's smart enough would know that saving one's own skin is better than holding on to power. If he was smarter he would have ran away into exile. But nope...he's still there hoping that maybe that the US won't invade and that the thousands of soldiers that's on the border of his country are mere mirages.

Like any dictator, Saddam fears internal problems more then outside attacks. Thus the separate Republican guard and Army, one small with good equipment the other big with poor stuff. If one turned against him the other remains in his control to defeat it while both dislike each other and won't gang up.

I don't belive he is crazy. But I do think Saddam doesnt belive the US will really invade all out and so he's been trying his old tricks again to buy time untill either summer comes or Bush simply cant keep up the political effort. When summer comes a ground war in NBC gear isn't possibul and thats the end of it, and we all get to keep debating this for another 10 years.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:

Montcalm wrote:A man who has every potentiel opposition members executed when he took charge of his country is fucking dangerous for the world.

That's politics for ya...

The pistol he used to kill the last leader of Iraq is on display in Baghdad at the national military museum. My dad has a picture of it somewhere.

I don't belive he is crazy. But I do think Saddam doesnt belive the US will really invade all out and so he's been trying his old tricks again to buy time untill either summer comes or Bush simply cant keep up the political effort.

I think Sadam is on the losing side of the bet, if he believes Bush does not mean business.

I wonder if he would kill himself to avoid capture?

Stupid as in stupid dumb? No. Stupid as in does not know when to give up. Yes.

The question here is: Is Bush stupid?
Yes.
This idiot just wants the oil in Iraq, and war. War hasn't brought much good to the world except gunpowder, jet aircraft, computers, etc. etc.

But the only thing missing is nanotechnology, basically, if war on Iraq brings it, I say go for it. But no, it's a damn war for damn oil that's going to be damn overcharged if the US gets it's hands on it.

Nanotechnology is overrated. It's definitely not the be-all end-all that it's hyped up to be, but it does have its uses.

Anyway, the idea is to get more oil for less to release some tension on the American economy, thus allowing us to spend more money on other stuff... like technology.

Neko001 wrote:The question here is: Is Bush stupid?
Yes.
This idiot just wants the oil in Iraq, and war. War hasn't brought much good to the world except gunpowder, jet aircraft, computers, etc. etc.

But the only thing missing is nanotechnology, basically, if war on Iraq brings it, I say go for it. But no, it's a damn war for damn oil that's going to be damn overcharged if the US gets it's hands on it.

Whats your exact point? Everyone wants the fucking oil. Thats why the French is Anti-War. They have deals running and may have just sold Iraq a new reactor by accident. It's the French policy "sell, but don't ask" is why we are being opposed by France. And if Bush is going for the oil it's means he is shrewd and tactful and him having that intelligence too deal with the world shows intelligence, not stupidity. Also, having viable oil in a new, friendly Gulf Nation would allow us too bypass the Saudis and others.

Captain Lennox wrote:

Neko001 wrote:The question here is: Is Bush stupid?
Yes.
This idiot just wants the oil in Iraq, and war. War hasn't brought much good to the world except gunpowder, jet aircraft, computers, etc. etc.

But the only thing missing is nanotechnology, basically, if war on Iraq brings it, I say go for it. But no, it's a damn war for damn oil that's going to be damn overcharged if the US gets it's hands on it.

Whats your exact point? Everyone wants the fucking oil. Thats why the French is Anti-War. They have deals running and may have just sold Iraq a new reactor by accident. It's the French policy "sell, but don't ask" is why we are being opposed by France. And if Bush is going for the oil it's means he is shrewd and tactful and him having that intelligence too deal with the world shows intelligence, not stupidity. Also, having viable oil in a new, friendly Gulf Nation would allow us too bypass the Saudis and others.

but a new friendly gulf nation would immediately join the opec so the saudies wouldnt really be bypassed.

salm wrote:

Captain Lennox wrote:

Neko001 wrote:The question here is: Is Bush stupid?
Yes.
This idiot just wants the oil in Iraq, and war. War hasn't brought much good to the world except gunpowder, jet aircraft, computers, etc. etc.

But the only thing missing is nanotechnology, basically, if war on Iraq brings it, I say go for it. But no, it's a damn war for damn oil that's going to be damn overcharged if the US gets it's hands on it.

Whats your exact point? Everyone wants the fucking oil. Thats why the French is Anti-War. They have deals running and may have just sold Iraq a new reactor by accident. It's the French policy "sell, but don't ask" is why we are being opposed by France. And if Bush is going for the oil it's means he is shrewd and tactful and him having that intelligence too deal with the world shows intelligence, not stupidity. Also, having viable oil in a new, friendly Gulf Nation would allow us too bypass the Saudis and others.

but a new friendly gulf nation would immediately join the opec so the saudies wouldnt really be bypassed.

True. We should've taken up Russia on their oil pipeline partnership, so we could possibly end up bypassing the Arab states entirely. That whole region is too volatile to rely on for such an important resource.

salm wrote:

Captain Lennox wrote:

Neko001 wrote:The question here is: Is Bush stupid?
Yes.
This idiot just wants the oil in Iraq, and war. War hasn't brought much good to the world except gunpowder, jet aircraft, computers, etc. etc.

But the only thing missing is nanotechnology, basically, if war on Iraq brings it, I say go for it. But no, it's a damn war for damn oil that's going to be damn overcharged if the US gets it's hands on it.

Whats your exact point? Everyone wants the fucking oil. Thats why the French is Anti-War. They have deals running and may have just sold Iraq a new reactor by accident. It's the French policy "sell, but don't ask" is why we are being opposed by France. And if Bush is going for the oil it's means he is shrewd and tactful and him having that intelligence too deal with the world shows intelligence, not stupidity. Also, having viable oil in a new, friendly Gulf Nation would allow us too bypass the Saudis and others.

but a new friendly gulf nation would immediately join the opec so the saudies wouldnt really be bypassed.

Now, Sir you shall see the advantages of a puppeted Iraqi Regime.

Captain Lennox wrote:

salm wrote:

Captain Lennox wrote: Whats your exact point? Everyone wants the fucking oil. Thats why the French is Anti-War. They have deals running and may have just sold Iraq a new reactor by accident. It's the French policy "sell, but don't ask" is why we are being opposed by France. And if Bush is going for the oil it's means he is shrewd and tactful and him having that intelligence too deal with the world shows intelligence, not stupidity. Also, having viable oil in a new, friendly Gulf Nation would allow us too bypass the Saudis and others.

but a new friendly gulf nation would immediately join the opec so the saudies wouldnt really be bypassed.

Now, Sir you shall see the advantages of a puppeted Iraqi Regime.

But if Iraqi people don`t like the puppet they can cut the strings.

Neko001 wrote:The question here is: Is Bush stupid?
Yes.
This idiot just wants the oil in Iraq, and war. War hasn't brought much good to the world except gunpowder, jet aircraft, computers, etc. etc.

But the only thing missing is nanotechnology, basically, if war on Iraq brings it, I say go for it. But no, it's a damn war for damn oil that's going to be damn overcharged if the US gets it's hands on it.

Thats not the question. The question was is Sadam stupid?

Crazy, no. He would never last so long.
But hey, at least it's not his son who leads Iraq! He is 324^54e437 times worst.

Stupid , no, delusional possibly......
Saddams entire life has been dedicated to one thing, the acquisition of power. I call it the Saladin complex, most Arab rulers have it. All of them would like nothing better than to be hailed as the next Saladin and be that unifying force in the Arab world, heal the rift in the faith and then resume the conquest and conversion of the world. I know it sounds strange , but the place of Saladin in Arab myth is powerful , and unlike Europe and America where our heroes from antiquity have all been superceeded by 'Joe Millionaire" and "Survivor" the Arabs still tell the old stories to their children and in many of these Saladin , Baybas, and Sulieman play an important role. Saddam had hoped to be that guy, who would restore the Arab world to greatness and power in the world.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:

Neko001 wrote:The question here is: Is Bush stupid?
Yes.
This idiot just wants the oil in Iraq, and war. War hasn't brought much good to the world except gunpowder, jet aircraft, computers, etc. etc.

But the only thing missing is nanotechnology, basically, if war on Iraq brings it, I say go for it. But no, it's a damn war for damn oil that's going to be damn overcharged if the US gets it's hands on it.

Thats not the question. The question was is Sadam stupid?

No, Sadaam is not stupid. There's never been a question that he's a dictator, tyrant, whatever. It's just the question, can he keep his power.. and his neck. Which is what Sadaam is trying to do. If he rolls over and plays for the U.S. I can imagine the political turmoil he would create at home. I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of people waiting to jump on him at a moment's sign of weakness (hey, isn't that how HE got his job in the first place).

Is Bush stupid? No, I think he's an average spoiled rich boy. Do I think his advisors are stupid? No, they're pretty brilliant. They have most people stuck on: Patriotism, Terrorism, and What IFs. Is this about oil? Maybe only a little bit actually. Sure, some people stand to profit.. but I think it's far far more than just oil.

The reprecussions of having our very own advanced base in the Middle East is unprecedented. Previously we had to rely on the good graces of friendly countries such as Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel and to a degree Jordan. Can you imagine what will happen if the U.S. occupies Iraq and is able to conduct operations straight out of there without a middleman?

Trytostaydead wrote:No, Sadaam is not stupid. There's never been a question that he's a dictator, tyrant, whatever. It's just the question, can he keep his power.. and his neck. Which is what Sadaam is trying to do. If he rolls over and plays for the U.S. I can imagine the political turmoil he would create at home. I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of people waiting to jump on him at a moment's sign of weakness (hey, isn't that how HE got his job in the first place).

Is Bush stupid? No, I think he's an average spoiled rich boy. Do I think his advisors are stupid? No, they're pretty brilliant. They have most people stuck on: Patriotism, Terrorism, and What IFs. Is this about oil? Maybe only a little bit actually. Sure, some people stand to profit.. but I think it's far far more than just oil.

The reprecussions of having our very own advanced base in the Middle East is unprecedented. Previously we had to rely on the good graces of friendly countries such as Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel and to a degree Jordan. Can you imagine what will happen if the U.S. occupies Iraq and is able to conduct operations straight out of there without a middleman?

That's probably also why others are enraged over the U.S. invading.

Yeah. I can really see a much larger war occuring. US invades Iraq. Retaliatory strikes from various cells. US identifies them from various middle eastern countries using North Korean weaponary (remember that shipment of scuds). US attacks neighboring countries that have never been friendly to the US. North Korea probably strikes Japan with missiles, invades South Korea. US responds. China decides this is a good time to reassert itself into the world arena. Everyone puts heads between knees and kisses their asses goodbye.