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If there was only a simple answer to this complicated question.

I'm a high school student in my senior year. I've been accepted into the University of Central Florida and the University of Florida. I'm still waiting for letters back from the University of South Florida and New York University. Great, right? Sure, if college were free. As my and my family's financial situation stands right now, I don't see how we can afford anywhere from $15,000 to $50,000 a year on college. I've sent out my FAFSA, I have 75% Bright Futures (but it only pays for tuition, and only for public schools in Florida), but even if I get federal aid (doubtful, being white and middle-class) there is still more money needed.

Opinions on student loans? Availability? Worth it?

I've been looking around, and have talked to a recruiter with the Marines on the phone. I'm going in to see him at the next opportunity. This isn't a HOLY SHIT last resort response, it's something I've always had in the back of my mind. However, most friends/family seem to dismiss the idea, labeling it ridiculous. They seem to think just because I succeeded at high school means I can't become "cannon fodder".

So as it stands I'm looking at a couple options. Join the Marine Corps, have housing, medical, dental, etc. paid for plus a salary, as well as a career. Or, go to college, most likely UF, and probably go into debt in order to get a degree. Which doesn't guarantee a career or any kind of security.

I also understand that I can join as an enlisted Marine or an officer, but I believe there are certain prerequisites for being an officer. I'm not sure what they are, and I plan on asking the recruiter next chance, but if anyone knows...?

Advice please.

EDIT: I'm going to meet with the recruiter Saturday, I just want to walk in with some basic knowledge, and Marines.com is good if you want to know absolutely nothing concrete.

Cos Dashit wrote: I also understand that I can join as an enlisted Marine or an officer, but I believe there are certain prerequisites for being an officer. I'm not sure what they are, and I plan on asking the recruiter next chance, but if anyone knows...?

Advice please.

You generally can't sign on as an officer unless you have some sort of college degree, afaik.

Have you looked into ROTC?
[line 2]

General Zod wrote:

Cos Dashit wrote: I also understand that I can join as an enlisted Marine or an officer, but I believe there are certain prerequisites for being an officer. I'm not sure what they are, and I plan on asking the recruiter next chance, but if anyone knows...?

Advice please.

You generally can't sign on as an officer unless you have some sort of college degree, afaik.

Yeah, I wasn't clear in my post. I know that you need a college degree to sign on as an officer, but can you enlist and become one with time? Or is there an officer school of some kind? Basically, will any college be necessary?

I know the best and most knowledgeable person to talk to would be the recruiter, but I want info from any and all sources, and I have a feeling he might be, ahem, biased. Maybe.

Mayabird wrote:Have you looked into ROTC?
[line 2]

No, I'm in my last semester and my classes are set. ROTC is a class, at least at my school. Hadn't thought about it until recently so didn't even think about joining.

Have you spoken with any financial aid counselors? AFAIK, most schools should have some sort of scholarship fund.

New Englander unfairly trapped in the south to the rescue:

As far as University of Central Florida, they are somewhat generous with their aid. I'm not sure exactly what income level 'middle class' is, but don't let "white" think you'll have no scholarships. What was your FAFSA EFC?

For comparision, my first year I recieved 100% tuition (Bright Futures), about $4000 Pell Grant (EFC ~2k), about 2000 dollars in miscellaneous grants you get for not having failed high school and for signing up for 12 credit-hours for that semester, plus another 4.5k in loans to fill in the gap. All told like 15,000 dollars from the federal government and college.

(As to why/how they give so much, my only theory is it's some Henry Ford stuff- the government recoups its costs by bumping up my income from Minimum Wage to whatever I can do after college, and thus reaps the tax benefits in time.)

Full Time Grant, Academic Competitiveness Grant, and a few others (which are usually late in appearing so you won't see them right now), plus Pell Grant and Bright Futures (you should have an estimate of that on the myUCF page under Financial Aid->View Financial Aid).

Total up the estimated bright futures and estimated Pell grant and so forth, add about 1750 for grants and subtract from the rent/food/whatever costs you have totaled, or just use their 'cost of attendance' total like me if you're lazy. If you're pretty close, you can cover the rest in loans.

I'm 90% sure ("Middle Class") I'm a bit more aid-gettable than you, but I doubt it's impossible for you to go to college. 49,999 other people are doing it here and they have more or less money than I.

Oh by the way that's just from filling out the FAFSA. If you actually manage to net a real scholarship by writing bullshit flattery essays, you're even better off.

Cos Dashit wrote:

Mayabird wrote:Have you looked into ROTC?
[line 2]

No, I'm in my last semester and my classes are set. ROTC is a class, at least at my school. Hadn't thought about it until recently so didn't even think about joining.

Nah, that's JROTC. ROTC is Reserve Officers Training Corps in college. You sign up, sorta like JROTC, but if you stay in for 3 years or some sort of threshhold (there's easily time to get out if you get cold feet) in College ROTC you will be contractually obligated to entered into the military for 4 years or something like that as an O1 (that's the minimum, you can of course keep going).

Also it's harder, because it's more realistically military and because you're an actual adult. But also cooler, if you're into that shit. And 4 years as a 2nd Lieutenant beats 4 years as a Private I'd imagine.

You can enter as an E1 and move your way up to sergeant/petty officer noncommissioned ranks and then attend some kind of Officers School, but you're best saving a decade and all the effort and misery laying around in the dirt.

(I know some of this because "Hey the navy gives you all kinds of free stuff" looked like a great plan to me too until I realised the Navy are the only men on the planet who don't like lesbians much at all)

EDIT: Also, a great combo here if you want to go to the military-> Bachelor's Degree in something usefulish + ROTC -> Military, which then pays for you to get even more education (they're always touting "Pay for you to go to college" after all), meaning you end up with all the Military Goodies plus a Masters in something or the like.

Cos Dashit wrote:Yeah, I wasn't clear in my post. I know that you need a college degree to sign on as an officer, but can you enlist and become one with time? Or is there an officer school of some kind? Basically, will any college be necessary?

I know the best and most knowledgeable person to talk to would be the recruiter, but I want info from any and all sources, and I have a feeling he might be, ahem, biased. Maybe.

If you get a 4yr degree while in service and decide to get a commission, they'll ship you off to OTS, and then slap a commission on you. I don't remember if the Marines have warrant officers, but that's probably irrelevant since by the time you make WO it'd be nearly time to retire from the service anyway.

To add on to Duckie's post, ROTC will pay for most, if not all, of your college expenses, plus you'll get a small stipend every month as throwaway money, but you're contractually obligated to stay in the service for a term. 6 years, I believe. However, if you decide while in college that the Marines aren't for you after all, or if you fuck up your schoolwork, you'll owe them the money back.

Problem for you- I checked and UCF has only Air Force ROTC, I think. However, you might find another school (Public schools all give about the same aid, pick one that's cheapish and generous like UCF and you can easily go for free or even make a few thousand a year if you're skinflinted).

I'm no expert since I didn't finalise my plans, but I think also if you really want the Marines you could get a Bachelor's degree anywhere, then somehow use the Bachelor's degree to get into Officer Candidate School or the Marine Academy or whatnot. However, I'm not sure if you have to enlist and then apply, so it'd suck if they turned you down (temporarily, since you can keep reapplying I suppose) and you got stuck in dogface land for a while.

EDIT- University of Florida has a Navy-Marines ROTC. Their college is also more hard and thus prestigious in terms of academics, or so my friend tells me. The two cost approximately the same amount and their awards appear to be the same, although I'm no expert on UCF's grants, let alone some other.

Also I'm not sure how the Marine job system works, because when you sign up, you are not guaranteed a specific job (NO MATTER WHAT THE RECRUITER TELLS YOU). I would recommend that after you take your ASVAB test, if it is high enough, you should look at what jobs the Army can guarantee you when you sign up.

Duckie wrote:Problem for you- I checked and UCF has only Air Force ROTC, I think. However, you might find another school (Public schools all give about the same aid, pick one that's cheapish and generous like UCF and you can easily go for free or even make a few thousand a year if you're skinflinted).

I'm no expert since I didn't finalise my plans, but I think also if you really want the Marines you could get a Bachelor's degree anywhere, then somehow use the Bachelor's degree to get into Officer Candidate School or the Marine Academy or whatnot. However, I'm not sure if you have to enlist and then apply, so it'd suck if they turned you down (temporarily, since you can keep reapplying I suppose) and you got stuck in dogface land for a while.

The Marines have something called Platoon Leader Command, IIRC. Basically You just spend your summers in Quantico(It's how my Dad got his commission) before going off to OCS after you get your 4 year degree. So if you wanted to be in the Marines, and NROTC isn't at your school, that would be the way to go.

Go ROTC--if you do wash out of the programme there is a provision where you don't have to pay the military back if you go into the military as rank and file, more or less, I believe. And if you're reasonably competent and very determined you shouldn't have that much of an issue with clearing through it.

Lonestar wrote:

Duckie wrote:Problem for you- I checked and UCF has only Air Force ROTC, I think. However, you might find another school (Public schools all give about the same aid, pick one that's cheapish and generous like UCF and you can easily go for free or even make a few thousand a year if you're skinflinted).

I'm no expert since I didn't finalise my plans, but I think also if you really want the Marines you could get a Bachelor's degree anywhere, then somehow use the Bachelor's degree to get into Officer Candidate School or the Marine Academy or whatnot. However, I'm not sure if you have to enlist and then apply, so it'd suck if they turned you down (temporarily, since you can keep reapplying I suppose) and you got stuck in dogface land for a while.

The Marines have something called Platoon Leader Command, IIRC. Basically You just spend your summers in Quantico(It's how my Dad got his commission) before going off to OCS after you get your 4 year degree. So if you wanted to be in the Marines, and NROTC isn't at your school, that would be the way to go.

I hadn't heard of that programme before--it sounds just like the sort of thing that would work for him.

Platoon Leaders Class

Since the name wasn't given correctly, I figured I'd make it easier to find for the OP. Something to discuss with the recruiter, at minimum.

However, NEVER TRUST THE RECRUITER. Get him to write down anything important he says. And even if he writes it down, don't trust it's true. Not sure what to do to find out the real truth about stuff like jobs and so forth.

Right. The recruiter's probably fed you some line about guaranteeing a specific job. Unless it's spelled out specifically in your contract that you will get that job, don't count on it. And the recruiter really doesn't have the authority to do that, so it's not going to happen. Depending on what field you want, you might get it if your ASVAB score is good and that particular field is undermanned, but don't hold your breath.

First thing to know about the recruiter is: he can put you in touch with the officer program; however, his job is to get you to enlist in the Marine Corps. He is going to try to get you to enlist for the GI Bill to pay for college. He's not going to tell you anything about the Platoon Leaders Course, which has already been mentioned here. If you want to be an officer, then you need to speak to an Officer Selection Officer. Go to Marines.com and say you're a college student and that website should direct you to an OSO vice a recruiter. Basically if you want a career in the Marines, it seems you'll have three choices right now:

1) Enlist active duty. You may have time to get night classes done, but don't count on it. In four years you can get out and use the GI Bill to go to college. If you're frugal with your money while you're in, then you'll have some when you get out. There's also reenlisting to do a whole career in the Marine Corps, and there are officer programs available to you as an enlisted Marine, but it will be at least two, more like four years, before you can take advantage of them.

2) Enlist as a reservist. You'll get a couple of hundred bucks a month, but you'll lose a weekend. If you still want to be an officer, this this point becomes #3.

3) Join the Platoon Leaders Course (can be done while in the reserves). You speak to an OSO, if you're accepted you'll do Officer Candidate School during two summers, between freshman and sophomore year and again between junior and senior year. You'll get paid around $4000 these two summers too. There's money available, but you'll have to extend your commitment to take it. If you use student loans to go to college, you've got a well paying job waiting for when you finish.

All of this is up to you. Don't be surprised if you only hear about option 1 and 2 from the recruiter.

Oh, there is also ROTC, but I have no idea about how to do that.

Sorry for the double post.

Go here: http://marineofficer.com/ if you want to be an officer. The recruiter is going to enlist you, not lead you here.

*sigh*

Yeah, to go officer, you'll need to sign up for a program. Start with that if you really want to be an officer, if you're just worried about school and money for it rather a career, don't worry about it or get through school then worry about it. As far as enlisted goes, read your contract before you sign it so you understand what you are up for. Each contract is eight years...eight years. It is usually split up to four active four reserve but can be a bit different, say six active and two reserve or three and five occasionally. ' Those reserve years are inactive reserve unless you get stop loss-ed.

You can get 'guaranteed' a job but as others said, it's not a sure thing unless it's in your contract, same with sign up bonuses and early promotions etc...

As far as MOS's are concerned, afraid I don't know you well enough to hazard a guess. I was an Infantryman and loved it completely, others don't. Plenty of other things to do as well, but if you really want a tech job I'd recommend the Navy or Air Force.

Cos Dashit wrote:If there was only a simple answer to this complicated question.

I'm a high school student in my senior year. I've been accepted into the University of Central Florida and the University of Florida. I'm still waiting for letters back from the University of South Florida and New York University. Great, right? Sure, if college were free. As my and my family's financial situation stands right now, I don't see how we can afford anywhere from $15,000 to $50,000 a year on college. I've sent out my FAFSA, I have 75% Bright Futures (but it only pays for tuition, and only for public schools in Florida), but even if I get federal aid (doubtful, being white and middle-class) there is still more money needed.

Opinions on student loans? Availability? Worth it?

I've been looking around, and have talked to a recruiter with the Marines on the phone. I'm going in to see him at the next opportunity. This isn't a HOLY SHIT last resort response, it's something I've always had in the back of my mind. However, most friends/family seem to dismiss the idea, labeling it ridiculous. They seem to think just because I succeeded at high school means I can't become "cannon fodder".

So as it stands I'm looking at a couple options. Join the Marine Corps, have housing, medical, dental, etc. paid for plus a salary, as well as a career. Or, go to college, most likely UF, and probably go into debt in order to get a degree. Which doesn't guarantee a career or any kind of security.

I also understand that I can join as an enlisted Marine or an officer, but I believe there are certain prerequisites for being an officer. I'm not sure what they are, and I plan on asking the recruiter next chance, but if anyone knows...?

Advice please.

EDIT: I'm going to meet with the recruiter Saturday, I just want to walk in with some basic knowledge, and Marines.com is good if you want to know absolutely nothing concrete.

My advice is simple: make sure you're informed, and think it over. You are talking about choosing a career that could land you in some of the worst situations imaginable, where you may have to kill, and potentially still end up being killed. Whatever the benefits, and whatever your personal views on the military (I'll presume they are fairly positive if you're giving this serious consideration), its a pretty big decision; do not make it carelessly or recklessly. You may already know this, but you asked for advice so I'll say it anyways.

As for benefits, I'm no expert, but when I here about payed health care I think about all the military hospital horror stories that were in the news a year or two ago. I'm sure that's only part of the picture, but my point stands: know what you're getting into, and don't make a snap decision. Actually, I'd say that to some extent that goes for any major life-altering decision, such as changing careers or deciding to go to college.

If you decide to go ahead with it I've got nothing more to say except to wish you the best of luck. Their are other people here who know more about life in the military and potential opportunities than I do, some of them having served themselves.

I enlisted fully planning and serving my four years and getting out with money for college, or if I had decided to stay in, go through the MECEP program (enlisted commissioning program, essentially, a few years into service you submit a package and if you get approved, you choose a school and they pay tuition, as well a E-5 pay for three years with the promise to serve as an officer for 6-8 years).
Now, it might be that neither of those options are appealing to me now that barely two years in I'm working on multi-million dollar aircraft and their weapons systems and I absolutely love my job. To anyone wanting to join to learn a skill they can market four years down the road, I recommend the Marine air wing. I know men barely in their twenties who are running maintainable workcenters with several years of experience under their belt, including high-tempo operations in combat zones. Now, I'm not aware of any equivalents to that in the civilian world, but I'm sure you'll have a hard time matching them.
To me, I'd rather do my 4-5 years, come out a trained professional in my field with years of experience, and go get a civilian equivalent job with that on my resume than spend my time and money on four years of school with little to show for it other than a document saying I passed enough classroom and practical application tests.
Additionally, I cannot put a value on what the Marine Corps has done for me as a person. It has certainly changed me for the better, and forced me to grow much faster than I probably ever would have. Besides, isn't' an eventual goal of a career to get to a position where your job is to simply be a leader (or supervisor, manager, whatever) rather than do the grunt work yourself? I'd place my money on the military forcing you to learn leadership traits better than any college studies.

A few years as a lower-rank enlisted person, before going officer, will make you a better officer, in my opinion. I'd recommend enlisting, get the GI Bill, and then when you get out, join a Reserve unit while you also go ROTC and get more experience as a 'cadet leader'.

ROTC can help with money for college, but it won't foot the whole bill. You'll still have to have a McJob to make up the rest. Good luck with that, in these times.

OTOH, going enlisted and getting a fat GI Bill check (as well as saving money while enlisted, if you can) means there is a good chance you won't have to get a job while you're studying. The GI Bill and ROTC money will allow you to get by. Having the Reserves on weekends will be icing on the cake, and you'll be staying involved with the military. I never did ROTC, but I did have GI Bill and Reserves as pay, and my best years at college/uni were the years I didn't have to divide my time between study and work. There is a major advantage to being able to devote your efforts to school without the drag and distraction of flipping burgers or something else to eat up your time.

And nevermind the pogues and their talk about 'cannon fodder' and 'brainwashing', etc etc. If they haven't been in or tried to give it serious thought, they're not qualified to talk about what goes on.

Indeed. If the money is the goal, not a career and unless there is a specific job he's thinking of, ie: pilot, then the push of officer is silly.

Here's the thing any military committment should be concentrated not around the money but abotu the fact that you have to join and serve at the discretion of the service. In other words remeber that first and foremost the armed forces will require you to commit to them. If you aren't willing to either slog through 4 years of an enlistment (with 4 more years afterwards that they can call you back at their option), slog through 6 years of lost weekends (with the possibility of being activated just like above...oh and you've got 2 years of the same involuntary recall at the end) then don't join.

In simpler terms deicde first if the financial aid is worth dedicating yourself to an organization for at least 4 and possibly as many as 8 years. Only after you make that choice shoudl the decision come up about officer or enlisted at that poitn I think others have laid out the options pretty well but I'll still throw my two cents into the ring:

• - Enlisted Active Duty: The GI Bill money is pretty decent but you will spend 4 years doing what other people tell you to do. If you do it well and have a good head about you then somewhere around abotu the 2 or 3 year mark you will start to get responsibilities over other troops and the chance to have some say...don't dismiss all this lightly as a character building trait there are few things better for a person that direct responsibility for the lives of other human beings...sure they may be adults but there isn't always that much to recommend adulthood throughout the enlisted ranks, as management experience goes its pretty damn good. Important points though:
  • 1) Make sure you know a) what job you are signing up for, b) how long the training period is, c) what the failure rate is for the training program. The first is obvious, the second tellsyou how long you will have no freedom (from boot camp through the end of your initial training your entire life is basically scheduled with only small amounts of free time and heavy restrictions on your actions even off-duty) the last is critical because if you fail your initial training you can (not will but can) be re-assigned according to the "needs of the service" so its worthwhile to figure out whether you are going to be able to hack the job before you take it.
    2) Make sure the contract has every promise you were given before you sign. Once you sign the paper is law and nothign will change it before you sign everything is negotiable. You are NEVER obligated to sign so make sure everything from job specialty to trainign locations to bonuses to everything you were promised is in writing before you sign.
    3) There is an awful lot of shit that goes on at the bottom of the totem pole so be ready to slog through it. Make sure you are aware that when you join a unit as the FNG you will be the one tasked with standing midnight security, extra work cleaning the bathroooms, etc. There are a thousand and one daily rituals which everyone participates in but the shittier tasks tend to get tossed on the new guys.
  
  - Enlisted Reserve: GI Bill money is nowhere near as decent as Active Duty and obviously you would be both going to college AND working one weekend a month with reserve duty. So there is a plus in the sense that you get GI Bill money ($300-$400/mo) and a paycheck for reserve weekend (a typical Fri night-Sun afternoon drill pays 1/6th of a month's pay for an equivalent active duty rank and time in service). The downside is reserve weekends take an awful lot more out of you than you might guess and you also are going to have at least 2 weeks (sometimes mroe) of trianing each summer that cuts right into any plans you might have otherwise had such as internships or other career advancement chances. Pretty much all 3 of the points above apply to the reserves with the addendum that you can be recalled to active duty at basically any time. While employers, schools, credit instutions, landlords, and the like are all required to basically put a hold on everything when you get recalled there can be a lot of shit involved with actually being called to active duty.
  
  
  - Officer: You are gonna have to get through college first and the PLC program is the best way to go. You get the necessarry experience, have a decent job lined up, and if you negotiate with your Officer Selection Officer then there is a chance you could get some student loans repaid. HOWEVER, and this is the big if, an officer in the military is like jumping feet first into a mid level management position with a nice 16 week crash course training. Marine Corps officers in paticular have a whole host of responsibilities related to the fact that they are considered generalists almost from the get go. While you may specialize in a paticular field if you make grade past Captain it is almost certain that you will see duty in a whole series of unrelated fields. I would recommend that if you want an idea of what it takes to be an officer and the responsibilities it entails that you read One Bullet Away by Cpt Nathaniel Fick. He is one of the central characters from the HBO series "Generation Kill" (based on the book/magazine articles fo the same name) and writes abotu being an officer in a way that is probably the most elegant and truthful I have ever seen.
  Big Point: DO NOT TALK TO A RECRUITER. I know this has been emphasized but it cannot be stressed enough, if you want to go officer then don't talk to an enlisted recruiter except to get contact info for the Officer Selection Officer.

Is there a particular reason why you are focusing on the Marines?


If you are looking to go enlisted and pick up a particular trade or skill IMO the Navy is more likely to have it, have an opening, and be willing to guarantee that you'll get it more than the other services. The main drawback being, for a lot of people, it's the Navy. You know, boats, goofy uniforms, living on boats etc...

The Navy tends to have a pretty high turn over in personnel which is why it tends to have those openings.