StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I realize this is a total dream that will never happen, but here goes…

I want the United States to return to its pre-WW1 policy of isolationism. I want us to pull back all of our assets to our homeland, both civilian and military, lock up our borders tight, and shoot the fuck out of anyone who crosses them illegally. If anyone wants to move here legally, fine.

Oh, and of course, kick the UN out of New York and let it be hosted on someone else's soil. It's a second-rate joke anyway.

The current crisis is proving just how grateful the world is to us for sticking our necks out. Most Europeans think that Bush is more of a tyrant than Hussein and Kim Jong Il put together. I think that about says it all for the kind of fucked up minds some European nations are turning out.

I'm actually glad that this is all happening right now. It's finally teaching us who our friends really are. At this point, that would pretty much be Britain and Japan. (Which are the only two countries I will ever visit — I wouldn't feel safe anywhere else, except possibly Canada.) I single those two out because I think they're the only countries that are more than just our "friend of the moment".

Ah yes, just the good old USA kicking back all by itself, free of the burden of playing international policeman. What a beautiful thought. Let the UN run the rest of the world however they see fit. If mass murdering dictators want to start a conflict, it doesn't need to be our problem unless they're aiming at us or the two countries I mentioned above.

Comments? Different perspectives? Flames — of which there will probably be many?

I partially agree. We should stop acting as the world's babysitter.
On the other hand, would you like dictators controling all of Europe?
This sort of isolation proved nearly disatrous in WW2.

It's a good question.....if America stop policing (with the help of Britain these days.) europe....who would?...I really doubt that Europe left to it's own devices could decide on anything....much less the judgement and resolve it would take to rid it's borders of tyrants and dictators where'er it happens

Captain Kruger wrote:I'm actually glad that this is all happening right now. It's finally teaching us who our friends really are. At this point, that would pretty much be Britain and Japan. (Which are the only two countries I will ever visit — I wouldn't feel safe anywhere else, except possibly Canada.)

My oh my, the paranoia is strong in this one....

I single those two out because I think they're the only countries that are more than just our "friend of the moment".

Nations do not have friends, they have interests. If you do not accept this principle then you are rejecting the cornerstone of long-term US foreign policy and are therefore a hypocrite. If you accept this principle then you have no grounds to complain about the behavior of the rest of the world and are therefore also a hypocrite.

Try to create a better argument next time.

Captain Kruger wrote:I want the United States to return to its pre-WW1 policy of isolationism. I want us to pull back all of our assets to our homeland, both civilian and military, lock up our borders tight

The US percieves its interests to be global and deploys its forces as such to secure those interests- as such you are right it'll never happen.

and shoot the fuck out of anyone who crosses them illegally. If anyone wants to move here legally, fine.

Shoot illegal immigrants? Are you crazy? What kind of fucked up justice is that? I hope you're joking.

Oh, and of course, kick the UN out of New York and let it be hosted on someone else's soil. It's a second-rate joke anyway.

It's a forum for nations to work out their grievances peacefully as well as a nexus for humanitarian aid etc. By what standard is it a second-rate joke? There are thousands of UN aid and human rights workers who'd disagree.

The current crisis is proving just how grateful the world is to us for sticking our necks out.

Sticking your necks out? WTF? Sticking your necks out for what? Let's all save the world from a fifth-rate tin pot dictator tyrant who got his ass kicked thoroughly the last time he invaded someone, is barely a regional power, and in the process of this 'liberation' kill thousands of people and create a whole new generation of Middle Eastern extremists to blow up the NEXT World Trade Centre. Smart. Is it a wonder that other countries aren't enthusiastic?

Most Europeans think that Bush is more of a tyrant than Hussein and Kim Jong Il put together.

Evidence?

I think that about says it all for the kind of fucked up minds some European nations are turning out.

And America doesn't have fucked up minds? For every uber-left wing 'Euro-weenie' there's an uber-right wing dumbfuck moron: Here's a gem:

"Yeah, I wanna tell you that the cause of this problem is the fucking medieval Arabs and their wish to enslave us all – and I tell you that it is because we want to save the Jews from the fucking savage Arabs who want to throw them into the sea that we are about to fuck Saddam"

I'm actually glad that this is all happening right now. It's finally teaching us who our friends really are. At this point, that would pretty much be Britain and Japan. (Which are the only two countries I will ever visit — I wouldn't feel safe anywhere else, except possibly Canada.) I single those two out because I think they're the only countries that are more than just our "friend of the moment".

Common interests mean alliances. Nothing more. This has nothing to do with friendship.

Ah yes, just the good old USA kicking back all by itself, free of the burden of playing international policeman. What a beautiful thought. Let the UN run the rest of the world however they see fit. If mass murdering dictators want to start a conflict, it doesn't need to be our problem unless they're aiming at us or the two countries I mentioned above.

Actually, I prefer the UN policy of dealing with aforementioned dictators with collective overwhelming force when they actually attack another country, rather than pre-emptively attack them whenever we percieve a threat. In the case of Iraq, it's especially ludicrous consideringing the Cold War ended 11 years ago. I'd love to see Bush 43 apply his inane pre-emptive attack logic to that.

Comments? Different perspectives? Flames — of which there will probably be many?

Well there you go

May I also point out if we returned to our WWI Isolationism that several Countrys would starve to death and the Gobal Economey would crumble?(WWI Isolatiosm had very little International trade)

Also may I point out to you how succesful Isolatiom was in the past? There is a excellent reason we stoped doing it

Our economy would go to hell if we returned to pre-McKinley Isolationism. Our current economic status - all of those nice things in life everyone enjoys - And the buying power of the middle class, for that matter, completely depends upon our overseas trade, and our ability to enforce free/beneficial trade overseas, and a good enviroment for that trade.

We now have no choice but to maintain an American economic Empire worldwide for as long as possible.

The worst thing that can happen is that it will collapse. Even if it collapses due to the military efforts of a coalition of several other Great Powers in the distant future, it would be ludicrous to imagine the U.S. mainland being threatened, not with the defensive potential we have:

The end result is that we can either keep this Empire for as long as possible and then suffer, and maybe by then the world will come out slightly for the better (fewer Islamic fundies, etc) - Or we could go isolationist and see our economy destroyed in a fashion that would make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk, and watch Islamic fundamentalism overrun numerous portions of the globe, and diseases and tyrannies hold sway in Africa and other regions.

No, there's only one choice, and it is that we must, with a sigh, and a shudder, take up the burden of Empire. It was lowered by Britain, and now that the USSR is defeated, it is the turn of the younger of the great English-speaking countries, and the Republican of the two, to arise to the dominant position of Hegemon.

Captain Kruger wrote:I want the United States to return to its pre-WW1 policy of isolationism. I want us to pull back all of our assets to our homeland, both civilian and military, lock up our borders tight, and shoot the fuck out of anyone who crosses them illegally.

Shooting illegal immigrants? Would you really want to degrade yourself to the level of North Korea or Stalin's era Soviet Union? For example, the American units stationed in Philippines or Georgia are there to protect American interests, (just as Vympel said) by helping the local militaries to fight against Islamic fundamentalist terrorists.

Oh, and of course, kick the UN out of New York and let it be hosted on someone else's soil. It's a second-rate joke anyway.

USA has profited a lot from UN. This would probably a bad move from you.

The current crisis is proving just how grateful the world is to us for sticking our necks out. Most Europeans think that Bush is more of a tyrant than Hussein and Kim Jong Il put together. I think that about says it all for the kind of fucked up minds some European nations are turning out.

Hey, thanks for hasty generalisations. After this you still wonder why some people hate USA for becoming too arrogant? I actually support many things that USA does abroad, with a big exception of your Israel policy. Not that you probably care, though. After all, I'm just a piece of Eurotrash with a fucked up mind, right?

I'm actually glad that this is all happening right now. It's finally teaching us who our friends really are. At this point, that would pretty much be Britain and Japan. (Which are the only two countries I will ever visit — I wouldn't feel safe anywhere else, except possibly Canada.) I single those two out because I think they're the only countries that are more than just our "friend of the moment".

Why wouldn't you feel safe anywhere else? Just curious. And how about the countries which haven't said a word against American attack in Iraq, but haven't promised to militarily support it either?

Ah yes, just the good old USA kicking back all by itself, free of the burden of playing international policeman. What a beautiful thought.

For playing the role of an international policeman you can only blame your own politicians who regularily get your country involved in everyone else's affairs. For example, you offer Saudi Arabia almost unconditional support. You've saved their ass before in the Gulf War. How do the Saudis react? They finance terrorist organisations which fly airplanes into skyscrapers.

Let the UN run the rest of the world however they see fit. If mass murdering dictators want to start a conflict, it doesn't need to be our problem unless they're aiming at us or the two countries I mentioned above.

Comments? Different perspectives? Flames — of which there will probably be many?

Before you say that my country owns something to the USA, such as saving our ass during the WWII... We fought twice against Soviets and never took the Marshall aid. What you did to us and the entire Western Europe, well, because of you we didn't have to learn Russian as our second language.

aaah, another "we helped europe in the past that´s why europe has to lick our ass and in general has to act like gollum in TTT".

bah!

i´d say you better visit some other countries because that would be the best way to get rid of your narrow minded, short sighted point of view.

MAHOK!

I for one doubt that the world economy would collapse. If anything it would strengthen some of the other's countries position, and those countries that have suffered because of US intervention could have a chance to recover.

Not that I care if the USA goes to hell, but Mr. Kruger you are the living proof of all that is wrong in Amerika.

America will be the hegemon until the next hegemonic war, when it will be replaced by the new hegemon. Quite simple, really.

ArthurDent wrote:America will be the hegemon until the next hegemonic war, when it will be replaced by the new hegemon. Quite simple, really.

Or the rest of the world might gradually develop until America is no longer dominant. There need not be a war.

By the way, about your sig:

Star Wars? Star Trek? B5?

Who cares...it's not real

God isn't real either, but that doesn't seem to stop you from debating about him.

Captain Kruger wrote:I realize this is a total dream that will never happen, but here goes…

I want the United States to return to its pre-WW1 policy of isolationism. I want us to pull back all of our assets to our homeland, both civilian and military, lock up our borders tight, and shoot the fuck out of anyone who crosses them illegally. If anyone wants to move here legally, fine.

Most of our power as it is right now is because of our forward bases through out the world and our ability to deploy rapidly from those bases in other countries. If we pull all of our military into CONUS, our military advantage will be deminished.

Oh, and of course, kick the UN out of New York and let it be hosted on someone else's soil. It's a second-rate joke anyway

I agree that it is a joke, but one that is close enough to watch.

The current crisis is proving just how grateful the world is to us for sticking our necks out. Most Europeans think that Bush is more of a tyrant than Hussein and Kim Jong Il put together. I think that about says it all for the kind of fucked up minds some European nations are turning out.

Hastey generalization, the supposed 10 million that protested through out the world were a drop in the bucket next to the 40 million that watched Joe Millionaire on Monday. The rabid left, not all that unlike the rabbid right, are just noisey and get lots of air time.

I'm actually glad that this is all happening right now. It's finally teaching us who our friends really are. At this point, that would pretty much be Britain and Japan. (Which are the only two countries I will ever visit — I wouldn't feel safe anywhere else, except possibly Canada.) I single those two out because I think they're the only countries that are more than just our "friend of the moment".

As the others have already pointed out, we have interests and not friends but it is disheartening to learn that our common interests with some are not as strong as we would thing.

Ah yes, just the good old USA kicking back all by itself, free of the burden of playing international policeman. What a beautiful thought. Let the UN run the rest of the world however they see fit. If mass murdering dictators want to start a conflict, it doesn't need to be our problem unless they're aiming at us or the two countries I mentioned above.

This is folly, we need to be able to control the situation rather than react to it. By being a player in international affairs we can directly effect the course of events rather than clean up the mess afterwards. Not that it always happens like that, but the option is there.

Comments? Different perspectives? Flames — of which there will probably be many?

As small part of me agree's with you, but *shrug* RL is more complicated than than.

I for one doubt that the world economy would collapse. If anything it would strengthen some of the other's countries position, and those countries that have suffered because of US intervention could have a chance to recover.

Are you mad man?
Some of these Countrys(Russia in Particullar) would starve to death if it where not for the US, Or do you think 40% of Russia's Grain supply going away MIGHT be a bad thing, Tawin would colapse in weeks as its entire economey is founded on High Tech American and Brit Companys and support those people

Many other Countrys would be seriously hurting, America exports ALOT of grain nevermind investsments in other countrys(Which would not be defunct)


Nevermind how heavly invested everyone is in American Propertys in Other Countys...

odd. I'm thinking almost the exact opposite for ending crisises.

Umm, military isolationism does not equal economic isolationism.

Captain Kruger wrote:I realize this is a total dream that will never happen, but here goes…

I want the United States to return to its pre-WW1 policy of isolationism. I want us to pull back all of our assets to our homeland, both civilian and military, lock up our borders tight, and shoot the fuck out of anyone who crosses them illegally. If anyone wants to move here legally, fine.

Oh, and of course, kick the UN out of New York and let it be hosted on someone else's soil. It's a second-rate joke anyway.

The current crisis is proving just how grateful the world is to us for sticking our necks out. Most Europeans think that Bush is more of a tyrant than Hussein and Kim Jong Il put together. I think that about says it all for the kind of fucked up minds some European nations are turning out.

I'm actually glad that this is all happening right now. It's finally teaching us who our friends really are. At this point, that would pretty much be Britain and Japan. (Which are the only two countries I will ever visit — I wouldn't feel safe anywhere else, except possibly Canada.) I single those two out because I think they're the only countries that are more than just our "friend of the moment".

Ah yes, just the good old USA kicking back all by itself, free of the burden of playing international policeman. What a beautiful thought. Let the UN run the rest of the world however they see fit. If mass murdering dictators want to start a conflict, it doesn't need to be our problem unless they're aiming at us or the two countries I mentioned above.

Comments? Different perspectives? Flames — of which there will probably be many?

I like the idea. Unfortunately, I don't ever see that happening.

The idea gives new meaning to "impractical". The ensuing collapse of the global economy would hammer every nation, including the US.

but the US will be in the best position.

In my opinion, it should be a limited rollback of US military bases abroad. Using the Liliypad option for handleing conflict around the globe. We need to change the make up of NATO or form a new group. Focused more on Turkey and the former Soviet block states. Strive for putting some teeth into the UN..

Tragic wrote:but the US will be in the best position.

Why?

The commercial deficit of the U.S is huge. Military and political retirement from the world scene would leave much more space for the E.U companies to exploit oil and resources all over the world.

What would those huge advantages to the U.S be?

The top level of Dante's hell is better than the bottom. That doesn't mean I want to be there.

Colonel Olrik wrote:

Tragic wrote:but the US will be in the best position.

Why?

The commercial deficit of the U.S is huge. Military and political retirement from the world scene would leave much more space for the E.U companies to exploit oil and resources all over the world.

What would those huge advantages to the U.S be?

You are asuming the E.U. won't collapse or even go into depression. The U.S. I believe will be in a better position if world economy collapse cause we basically have everything we need if something like that happenes again.

Actually, the US economy is far from self-sufficient. This is a global economy now; perhaps you should update your thinking and enter the 20th century, so you'll only be one century behind.

And so does the rest of the world. Other countries are hoping the U.S. economy to fall but if that happens the rest of the world won't be far behind.

"Does Canada have an army or a navy"?







For those of you who didn't figure it out. It was a joke. I heard someone ask that one time