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Tonight at 10/9c, secret planes of the luftwaffe on the history channel, including the infamous "New York Bomber".

I know there are at least some military history fans on the board os I figured i'd point this out.

Yes they're finaly going to show it.

HO 229 rules.

They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

Frank Hipper wrote:They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

Don`t tell me you would like to live in a world controled by Adolf Hitler III.

Frank Hipper wrote:They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

America could have deployed a few thounsad fighters to protect the East coast with ease, while sending the 9th and 8th airforces against the bases. Germany coul

Here's a nice site: www.Luft46.com

More crazy secret German aircraft than you can shake a V2 Rocket at!

I'll try to see this and the programme on Japanese aircraft...

Who doesn't love the Saenger Amerika Bomber? It's amazing how far you can go when you consider 20 G's to be an acceptable sustained acceleration for the pilot.

I watched most of both shows tonight. They were interesting, especially the Japanese one. But they too easily made wild assumptions about what ifs. Even if these weapons were developed in decent numbers, the Axis was doomed. And its not like the US and Britain would not have fielded jet aircraft of their own in 1946.

Oh I truly doubt any of these uber planes, cool as they are, would have truly made a difference. However if Hitler had been less a wuss bag and allowed the Me-262 to go into production as the pure interceptor it was designed to be and fielded in useful numbers in 1943, you have a possible shift in the time it takes to bring Germany down, and the Air war over Europe would have just gotten that much nastier.

Also, who here thinks that the Go-229 is just the shit, thats such a cool and WAY ahead of its time fighter

Sokar wrote:Oh I truly doubt any of these uber planes, cool as they are, would have truly made a difference. However if Hitler had been less a wuss bag and allowed the Me-262 to go into production as the pure interceptor it was designed to be and fielded in useful numbers in 1943, you have a possible shift in the time it takes to bring Germany down, and the Air war over Europe would have just gotten that much nastier.

Also, who here thinks that the Go-229 is just the shit, thats such a cool and WAY ahead of its time fighter

I like the Horten Ho XIII too.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Frank Hipper wrote:They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

America could have deployed a few thounsad fighters to protect the East coast with ease, while sending the 9th and 8th airforces against the bases. Germany coul

Wow, America had interceptors that did 13,000mph back then? If the bomber was made then I doubt the ABL of today would stop the thing.

TrailerParkJawa wrote:I watched most of both shows tonight. They were interesting, especially the Japanese one. But they too easily made wild assumptions about what ifs. Even if these weapons were developed in decent numbers, the Axis was doomed. And its not like the US and Britain would not have fielded jet aircraft of their own in 1946.

The RAF Meteor actually beat the Me262 into service in 1944. And the US deployed several YP-80's to Italy in 1944 as well, though the design wasn't ready for full scale production until 1945.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Frank Hipper wrote:They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

America could have deployed a few thounsad fighters to protect the East coast with ease, while sending the 9th and 8th airforces against the bases. Germany coul

You do realise that I wasn't implying that that single prototype was any kind of a threat, right?

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Frank Hipper wrote:They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

America could have deployed a few thounsad fighters to protect the East coast with ease, while sending the 9th and 8th airforces against the bases. Germany coul

Wow, America had interceptors that did 13,000mph back then? If the bomber was made then I doubt the ABL of today would stop the thing.

The BV-328 was big multi engined convetional bomber. Or mabey that was the 228.

The 13,000 mph peice of crap was no threat. As I've said before, the pilot would be under 20g's of sustained acceleration, and be dead before the thing was even off the ramp. The electronics of the time would also be rather fucked in a designated sort of way.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Frank Hipper wrote:They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

America could have deployed a few thounsad fighters to protect the East coast with ease, while sending the 9th and 8th airforces against the bases. Germany coul

Wow, America had interceptors that did 13,000mph back then? If the bomber was made then I doubt the ABL of today would stop the thing.

He's not talking about the Amerikabomber, but a different, more conventional one.

Blohm und Voss BV 238:

Heh, I can identify at least two planes on that Luft46 site, that were used in the game Crimson Skies (the Hughes Aviation Bloodhawk and Curtis-Wright Warhawk for anyone whos played it).

Montcalm wrote:

Frank Hipper wrote:They had a plane that could carry a useful bombload to New York in the BV 328. Too bad the only prototype was destroyed in '44. Poor nazis.

Don`t tell me you would like to live in a world controled by Adolf Hitler III.

He was kidding...

I think....

Jadeite wrote:Heh, I can identify at least two planes on that Luft46 site, that were used in the game Crimson Skies (the Hughes Aviation Bloodhawk and Curtis-Wright Warhawk for anyone whos played it).

the Luft 46 stuff was looted liberaly for the CS stuff, but what a great game they made out of it

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote: America could have deployed a few thounsad fighters to protect the East coast with ease, while sending the 9th and 8th airforces against the bases. Germany coul

Wow, America had interceptors that did 13,000mph back then? If the bomber was made then I doubt the ABL of today would stop the thing.

The BV-328 was big multi engined convetional bomber. Or mabey that was the 228.

The 13,000 mph peice of crap was no threat. As I've said before, the pilot would be under 20g's of sustained acceleration, and be dead before the thing was even off the ramp. The electronics of the time would also be rather fucked in a designated sort of way.

Kinda begs the question. Why use a pilot at all? Why not use the whole thing as a giant kinetic-energy citybuster missile? Or Germany can stick a Virus-House Atomic Bomb on it, assuming they can get it to work...

Sea Skimmer wrote:

TrailerParkJawa wrote:I watched most of both shows tonight. They were interesting, especially the Japanese one. But they too easily made wild assumptions about what ifs. Even if these weapons were developed in decent numbers, the Axis was doomed. And its not like the US and Britain would not have fielded jet aircraft of their own in 1946.

The RAF Meteor actually beat the Me262 into service in 1944. And the US deployed several YP-80's to Italy in 1944 as well, though the design wasn't ready for full scale production until 1945.

There were 2 YP-80s in Italy, according to Lockheed's official history. We also had P-59 Airacomets, but they were junk compared to the Mustangs and Thunderbolts. The Meteor was the first deployed jet fighter, but it was inferior to the Schwalbe. The Vampire would have come out if the war had extended another half year, giving Britain a good jet fighter. The first production Vampire flew on April 20, 1945 (Hitler's birthday, oddly enough). There weren't any other major developments in fighter technology that would have been used in Europe, though. The Bearcat and Sea Fury would have been used in the Pacific, and the F-84 Thunderjet wasn't deployed until 1947.

Jadeite wrote:Heh, I can identify at least two planes on that Luft46 site, that were used in the game Crimson Skies (the Hughes Aviation Bloodhawk and Curtis-Wright Warhawk for anyone whos played it).

The Warhawk was the Curtiss P-40, an updated version of the P-36 Hawk, aka Hawk 75. It was used by the Flying Tigers mercenary flying wing in China, and despite being obsolete aircraft, they outperformed the RAF's Indian Air Force. The Hawk (P-36) achieved the first Allied kills in both the European and Pacific theaters, with the Armee de l'Air in France and the USAF in the Pacific. I don't know why they would call it a Curtiss-Wright Warhawk. Wright built the engine for the Hawk, but the Warhawks used Allison V-1710 engines, except for the P-40L and P-40M which used Packard-built Merlin engines (the P-51's engine).

We were refering to the miniatures Wargame "Crimson Skies" originally from FASA which is set in an alternate future and several of the fighter planes used in it look suspiciously like a number of the Nazi experimental aircraft designs. There is a very cool one called the P-40 Warhawk that uses twin pod monted pusher props that looks like a Nazi jet concept.

While new fighter Jets alone wouldn't have won the War for Germany, they could have easily added another year or two to the war had they come out a year earlier and kept up the one step ahead in technology that they initially had.

The US and Britain did have Jets of there own on the way, but at the pitifully slow rate they were going, by the time their first generation jets started replacing their propeller planes, they would have been completely out-classed by German craft like the Ho IX and numerous other 600+mph jets Germany would have had in abundance by late 1945/46 had certain things gone differently.

As for an "Amerika Bomber" a perfect candidate would have been the 6 engined Junkers 390 heavy bomber protoype which in real history got to with in 12miles of the US coast before deciding to turn back.