StarDestroyer.Net BBS

There's a great little film I watched called Fallen.

Denzel Washington plays Hobbes, a detective who put away a notorious criminal, who is later executed. The strange thing is that Hobbes starts seeing the same modus operandi in a bunch of other murder cases around the city.

To cut the story short, there's a disembodied demon called Azazel who's doing all the killing. After the Fall of the angels from Heaven, God allows them to wander the Earth in exile, or something like that. Azazel can move from body to body by touch (it doesn't have to be skin to skin contact, it can pass through clothing) and he has access to the victim's memories as well. There's a great scene where Azazel chases a character by passing through a long line of people walking along the street e.g. one person touching the back of another and so on. The victims don't have any recollection of when Azazel is possessing them.

People of exceptional mental fortitude, like the main character are immune to this method of possession but not to the second: If the host dies, Azazel is unharmed and free to fly around in his spirit form possessing anyone - even the guy who just killed him. Azazel can only move around in his spirit form for the length of a 'held breath' iirc, 500 cubits or 754 feet. After he's travelled that distance without finding a host, Azazel permanently dies.

Hobbes laces his smokes with poison and shoots his best friend/Azazel in the middle of what seems to be a deserted wood, in order to permanently kill him. Azazel moves into the dying Hobbes, and when Hobbes dies coughing and weezing, Azazel moves in spirit form to a nearby cat.

Assume for this scenario that he can move into any animal that has a brain as large or larger than a cat, so cattle, sheep, dogs etc. Azazel is after you, he wants to make your life a living hell by any means necessary. You're also immune from the possession by touch. How do you kill him?

I suspect that without some means of recognizing somebody who's possessed by the demon that I will die shortly, but presuming that I manage to survive for long enough to put together a plan, then the best course of action is to replicate Hobbes' plan, but by luring the demon into an abandoned mine-shaft deeper than 754 feet first, preventing him from reaching any complex animal before dying. Assuming survival is implied as a necessary condition, then I'd modify the plan to shove the possessee down the shaft while remaining on the surface, outside of the demon's reach, since I am immune to touch-possession.

Of course, surviving to the point where I put the plan in action would be nearly impossible, unless the demon is somehow incredibly incompetent or easily recognizable while possessing someone.

1. Travel to abandoned location.

2. Fortify said location.

3. Shoot anyone that comes through.

4. Problem solved.

1. Capture Demon's Host (How I leave up to you)
2. Lock Demon in trunk secure enough it can't off itself.
3. Quickly take demon to abandon location at least three football fields in size which are animal free(Coal mines work well for this)
4. Attach and set home made bomb(Large amounts of black power with a slow burning match will work in a pinch) with attached timer to trunk to ensure demon kill.
5. Dead demon

Sarevok wrote:1. Travel to abandoned location.

2. Fortify said location.

3. Shoot anyone that comes through.

4. Problem solved.

You'd have to have a >754 foot killing zone around the location though, if you shoot anyone closer than that the demon can get you. You have to stay awake 24 hours a day as well so it cant sneak up while your sleeping. It might work if you had a mine field or some sort of automated defences.

If its smart it will somehow lure a group of people to your location let you shoot one of them then run back to the local authorities and have them deal with you. That plan might now work if the location was in some lawless country, although it might bring the local warlord down on you.

Why kill him? Simply capture the host, keep it bound, unable to touch anyone, and well fed/watered. Or even better, induce a vegetable state and hook'em up to an IV. So long as it's set up well, you're virtually guaranteed to be demon-free for the length of a natural human lifespan.

Take the possessed person up in an airplane, attach a bomb to him, fly up to some reasonable height over the ocean, then push him out and detonate the bomb.

Edit: I should clarify that "reasonable height" means that when you explode him, he is more than 754 feet from the surface. Why don't we be safe and go with something like 20000 feet up?

On second thought, yeah, I'll run with my proposed scenario, but with a few additions. Yeah, Azazel wants to make your life a living hell through possessing people. But it's surprising how many people here are willing to actually kill someone for that. Unless Azazel has super-awesome capabilities inside his host, he has no more ability to make your life hell than the average person would. His one advantage is that he can hop to a new body once the current one becomes inconvenient. So really he's no more threatening than a really persistent stalker with an extra trick up his sleeve.

Then there's the matter of the host. Does the person whose body he's possessing deserve to die for it? He can leave with but a touch, if you were possessed by a demon who could either leave one of two ways, your death, or touching someone else, which would you prefer? And how do we know those are the only ways of expelling the demon? Has anyone strapped down a host, prevented them from touching anyone, then ran tests to determine exactly what this demon can do? Maybe there are other ways to push the thing out that we simply haven't discovered yet.

And even if there isn't, why do we need to kill a sentient person to get rid of him? Why not capture the host, restrain him, put him on a plane. Then, when you're 50,000 feet above ground, toss a very old dog on top of him, one that's already at death's door. Once the transfer's down, toss the dog out (if the transfer is a voluntary thing, rather than involuntary upon touch, it will be a little harder to make a set-up to convince Azazel that jumping to the dog's body is a wise move, but it's still possible). Make sure there's a bomb attached to the thing, set to go off once its reached, oh, 20,000 feet down.

Well, first of all, the OP asked for methods of killing him, not rationales as to why you should. And since having the host die is a necessary step in killing Azazel...

Second: Azazel is apparently going around the city and murdering people, not simply making your life suck. That'd be a good reason to get rid of him don't you think?

Third: I would imagine the transfer would be a voluntary thing.

Hawkwings wrote:Well, first of all, the OP asked for methods of killing him, not rationales as to why you should. And since having the host die is a necessary step in killing Azazel...

Second: Azazel is apparently going around the city and murdering people, not simply making your life suck. That'd be a good reason to get rid of him don't you think?

Third: I would imagine the transfer would be a voluntary thing.

Well, from what's being said here, it seems everyone has easy access to remote locations, large amounts of explosives, a plan to get away from the law following their actions, possession of an airplane and all permits required to get over the border and onto open ocean. So managing to get your hands on a decrepid dog and coming up with a plan to convince Azazel to jump to it, thus saving someone's life, shouldn't be too hard.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:

Hawkwings wrote:Well, first of all, the OP asked for methods of killing him, not rationales as to why you should. And since having the host die is a necessary step in killing Azazel...

Second: Azazel is apparently going around the city and murdering people, not simply making your life suck. That'd be a good reason to get rid of him don't you think?

Third: I would imagine the transfer would be a voluntary thing.

Well, from what's being said here, it seems everyone has easy access to remote locations, large amounts of explosives, a plan to get away from the law following their actions, possession of an airplane and all permits required to get over the border and onto open ocean. So managing to get your hands on a decrepid dog and coming up with a plan to convince Azazel to jump to it, thus saving someone's life, shouldn't be too hard.

The guy's plan would've worked if not for movie stupidity to not acknowledge that one needs a more deserted spot. In fact the best way is what Bean proposed. Go to a coal mine or associated underground place that has become a death trap for any living thing. Place body there, and laugh. You don't even need to smoke the cigarette. In fact the bomb isn't really needed if you find a deep enough mine. Chuck said trunk down the shaft.

The hard part is capturing and securing the demon and its host. Assuming I can do that I'm a boat rental and a couple cinderblocks away from offing it. I take it out in the lake, securely strap on the cement shoes and toss it overboard then gun the motor on the boat. By the time it drowns I'm a mile away and there isn't anything in the lake other than fishes so it's toast.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Once the transfer's down, toss the dog out (if the transfer is a voluntary thing, rather than involuntary upon touch, it will be a little harder to make a set-up to convince Azazel that jumping to the dog's body is a wise move, but it's still possible).

Torture* comes to mind. If he feels what the body feels then enough pain should make him do whatever he can to avoid that pain; like leaving that body. Preferably using some controllable method that can be shut off the instant he transfers so you don't hurt the host any more than necessary.



* Note; in real life situations I am opposed to torture under any circumstances. But then, in real life situations we aren't dealing with body swapping demons

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:On second thought, yeah, I'll run with my proposed scenario, but with a few additions. Yeah, Azazel wants to make your life a living hell through possessing people. But it's surprising how many people here are willing to actually kill someone for that. Unless Azazel has super-awesome capabilities inside his host, he has no more ability to make your life hell than the average person would. His one advantage is that he can hop to a new body once the current one becomes inconvenient. So really he's no more threatening than a really persistent stalker with an extra trick up his sleeve.

Azazel can possess people you care about and make them do terrible things, video themselves raping children, kill each other... He could make those people testify that you aided them do those terrible things. If the people you cared about were either dead or imprisoned for monstrous crimes and were on record as saying you were complicit in their crimes would your life really not be rather hellish?

Then there's the matter of the host. Does the person whose body he's possessing deserve to die for it? He can leave with but a touch, if you were possessed by a demon who could either leave one of two ways, your death, or touching someone else, which would you prefer? And how do we know those are the only ways of expelling the demon? Has anyone strapped down a host, prevented them from touching anyone, then ran tests to determine exactly what this demon can do? Maybe there are other ways to push the thing out that we simply haven't discovered yet.

You say that as if identifying the possessed person and capturing them whilst preventing the demon going elsewhere would be a simple task.

And even if there isn't, why do we need to kill a sentient person to get rid of him? Why not capture the host, restrain him, put him on a plane. Then, when you're 50,000 feet above ground, toss a very old dog on top of him, one that's already at death's door. Once the transfer's down, toss the dog out (if the transfer is a voluntary thing, rather than involuntary upon touch, it will be a little harder to make a set-up to convince Azazel that jumping to the dog's body is a wise move, but it's still possible). Make sure there's a bomb attached to the thing, set to go off once its reached, oh, 20,000 feet down.

The demon only transfers when it wants to, so please do set out plausible circumstances in which you can convince the demon to move into an old dog.

Hawkwings wrote:Well, first of all, the OP asked for methods of killing him, not rationales as to why you should. And since having the host die is a necessary step in killing Azazel...

I actually really like the way Oni Koneko Damien is thinking, I just don't think that it's possible to live in a reasonable way without killing him. Unless he gets bored of you.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:On second thought, yeah, I'll run with my proposed scenario, but with a few additions. Yeah, Azazel wants to make your life a living hell through possessing people. But it's surprising how many people here are willing to actually kill someone for that. Unless Azazel has super-awesome capabilities inside his host, he has no more ability to make your life hell than the average person would. His one advantage is that he can hop to a new body once the current one becomes inconvenient. So really he's no more threatening than a really persistent stalker with an extra trick up his sleeve.

Azazel murdered Hobbes' brother (one of the few instances where a mentally impaired person is killed in the movies by a monster) and forced him into a death by cop situation.

How about digging a hole in the middle of the desert, chloroforming the host, tying him or her up, putting said host in a solid box, drive to said hole, drop in your package, bury it, and drive away? Hell, by the time the host suffocates you could have WALKED away and still be long gone. And the chances of something smarter than a lizard or ant wandering past are really slim, given that it's the middle of the fucking desert.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:

Hawkwings wrote:Well, first of all, the OP asked for methods of killing him, not rationales as to why you should. And since having the host die is a necessary step in killing Azazel...

Second: Azazel is apparently going around the city and murdering people, not simply making your life suck. That'd be a good reason to get rid of him don't you think?

Third: I would imagine the transfer would be a voluntary thing.

Well, from what's being said here, it seems everyone has easy access to remote locations, large amounts of explosives, a plan to get away from the law following their actions, possession of an airplane and all permits required to get over the border and onto open ocean. So managing to get your hands on a decrepid dog and coming up with a plan to convince Azazel to jump to it, thus saving someone's life, shouldn't be too hard.

All my plan requires is a bus ticket to West Virginia/East Tennessee, an abandoned coal mine with an elevator shaft over 754 feet in height, and possibly a gun, which is perfectly legal to own and easy to buy in the state I live in. The gun isn't even essential, it just makes dealing with the host easier. Frankly, the bigger problem will be overpowering the host. I'm a decently-sized fellow, but if Azazel chooses his hosts wisely, the whole plan would become a lot more difficult. As for the question of avoiding the law, how often do you think state troopers/county sheriffs head out to abandoned coal mines?

As for the dog plan, how exactly do you plan to convince Azazel you have an advantage over him? He has no reason to listen to anything you say, and as per the OP, is bent on making your life hellish/killing you. You have no way to demonstrate an ability to destroy him without invalidating its effectiveness, unless you somehow have access to nuclear weapons or some other means of ensuring overkill.

Plekhanov wrote:You say that as if identifying the possessed person and capturing them whilst preventing the demon going elsewhere would be a simple task.

Wait, why am I the only one who has to actually demonstrate the capability to do this? Everyone else's solutions involve the exact same thing (somehow identifying, catching, hiding and restraining the host before Azazel has a chance to flee), I was taking it as a given that this step of the process was achievable and it is what would be done afterward that was the important thing.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:

Plekhanov wrote:You say that as if identifying the possessed person and capturing them whilst preventing the demon going elsewhere would be a simple task.

Wait, why am I the only one who has to actually demonstrate the capability to do this? Everyone else's solutions involve the exact same thing (somehow identifying, catching, hiding and restraining the host before Azazel has a chance to flee), I was taking it as a given that this step of the process was achievable and it is what would be done afterward that was the important thing.

I don't think anyone else has been as dismissive of the threat posed by such as demon and their ability to destroy your life as you. Nor have they suggested that you could be in such a position of superiority and security over such as demon as to experiment upon them as opposed to expending every effort to kill them as soon as possible.

Plekhanov wrote:I don't think anyone else has been as dismissive of the threat posed by such as demon and their ability to destroy your life as you. Nor have they suggested that you could be in such a position of superiority and security over such as demon as to experiment upon them as opposed to expending every effort to kill them as soon as possible.

Their threat only remains as long as they're capable of touching someone else. Once you've restrained it and made sure no one's going to stumble into the host, they essentially become harmless until after you kill them, which is where my scenario starts. Which is where *everyone's* solution starts. No one has talked about how they're going to track down this thing and capture it, or mitigate its damage to them or their loved ones. They've all started with the assumption that the thing's tied up and gagged in their backseat, which is about as bloody safe as you're going to get it before killing it in a remote location. So don't give me such bullshit that no one other than me has suggested they'd be in a position of superiority.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:

Plekhanov wrote:I don't think anyone else has been as dismissive of the threat posed by such as demon and their ability to destroy your life as you. Nor have they suggested that you could be in such a position of superiority and security over such as demon as to experiment upon them as opposed to expending every effort to kill them as soon as possible.

Their threat only remains as long as they're capable of touching someone else. Once you've restrained it and made sure no one's going to stumble into the host, they essentially become harmless until after you kill them, which is where my scenario starts. Which is where *everyone's* solution starts. No one has talked about how they're going to track down this thing and capture it, or mitigate its damage to them or their loved ones. They've all started with the assumption that the thing's tied up and gagged in their backseat, which is about as bloody safe as you're going to get it before killing it in a remote location. So don't give me such bullshit that no one other than me has suggested they'd be in a position of superiority.

There is, from what I can tell from the OP, no way to determine where the demon is apart from "probably in the body of the guy/gal trying to kill you," so most people are focusing on a way to actually deal with the demon, rather than theorizing about PKE meters or other pseudoscience. I will admit that the majority of people would probably die, if we assume the demon is out to kill them, before really knowing what's happening, including myself. I mentioned that in my initial post, and then moved on to the more interesting subject of dealing with the demon, assuming I survive the initial attacks. But if you insist, we can have a thread of nothing but "I die lol" posts, and/or various ludicrous methods to try and identify a posessee, unless there is one the OP isn't telling us. Of course, you still have the same problem as everybody else in the thread, with the additional complication of compelling the demon into committing suicide by passing into a dying dog that you then kill, unless you have some hold over the demon that would be no different for everyone else in the threads' plans.

Anyway, if you want a plan for tracking the demon down, well my plan is to let the demon come to me, just as the main character on the movie apparently did, make sure to do so at an abandoned mine with a shaft more than 754 feet deep. There. No need to capture the demon or identify him. He comes to me, and identifies himself. Then the rest of my plan would take over.

To avoid that me too feeling, I present three brand new (if rather unfeasible) options.

1: head for the South Pole. Once you get far enough from the coast, Antartica is pretty much the deadest place on the surface of the Earth, IIRC.
2: whether you build your own rocket or repurpose somebody else's, nothing cuts off hosts in range like making Azazel pull a Space Bat.
3: a sufficiently powerful nuke should kill Azazel's current host and all alternatives within range.

Assuming I can't just go off the grid and lose it outright, if I had the fortitude, I would join a group I hate like the BNP, RNC, etc and make it destroy them in a vain attempt to get to me. Also, where possible, I film myself or otherwise leave alibis that would make it less likely for it to get me convicted based on confessions and the crimes of others. It would be tedious, but it would give me chance to plan where to go and how to go about it. I approve of using a body of water to solve it.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:

Plekhanov wrote:I don't think anyone else has been as dismissive of the threat posed by such as demon and their ability to destroy your life as you. Nor have they suggested that you could be in such a position of superiority and security over such as demon as to experiment upon them as opposed to expending every effort to kill them as soon as possible.

Their threat only remains as long as they're capable of touching someone else. Once you've restrained it and made sure no one's going to stumble into the host, they essentially become harmless until after you kill them, which is where my scenario starts. Which is where *everyone's* solution starts. No one has talked about how they're going to track down this thing and capture it, or mitigate its damage to them or their loved ones. They've all started with the assumption that the thing's tied up and gagged in their backseat, which is about as bloody safe as you're going to get it before killing it in a remote location. So don't give me such bullshit that no one other than me has suggested they'd be in a position of superiority.

Remind me who else dismissed Azazel as being "no more threatening than a really persistent stalker with an extra trick up his sleeve"?

Bakustra wrote:There is, from what I can tell from the OP, no way to determine where the demon is apart from "probably in the body of the guy/gal trying to kill you," so most people are focusing on a way to actually deal with the demon, rather than theorizing about PKE meters or other pseudoscience. I will admit that the majority of people would probably die, if we assume the demon is out to kill them, before really knowing what's happening, including myself. I mentioned that in my initial post, and then moved on to the more interesting subject of dealing with the demon, assuming I survive the initial attacks. But if you insist, we can have a thread of nothing but "I die lol" posts, and/or various ludicrous methods to try and identify a posessee, unless there is one the OP isn't telling us. Of course, you still have the same problem as everybody else in the thread, with the additional complication of compelling the demon into committing suicide by passing into a dying dog that you then kill, unless you have some hold over the demon that would be no different for everyone else in the threads' plans.

Anyway, if you want a plan for tracking the demon down, well my plan is to let the demon come to me, just as the main character on the movie apparently did, make sure to do so at an abandoned mine with a shaft more than 754 feet deep. There. No need to capture the demon or identify him. He comes to me, and identifies himself. Then the rest of my plan would take over.

Tracking the demon down is next to impossible as in the film it constantly and effortlessly jumps from person to person and by no means always causes those it's possessing to act in a demonic manner. iirc according to the demon's voice over it's been doing this for thousands of years and is very good at it.

If someone is actively trying to kill you there's a good chance it could be demon, or it could be a regular guy seeking revenge for you blackmailing and repeatedly raping their wife/daughter/favourite niece (I mean of course that Azazel would possess the 'victim' and tell the guy you'd raped them). Even if you do correctly identify who's possessed it's all too easy for Azazel to move in an instant. Azazel's ability to possess almost anyone at a whim and access all their memories also makes it extremely difficult to work with anyone to defeat him even if you can convince them of the situation.

Somehow trying to convince him to come to you in a remote location is the only way to play it that I can see of trying to deal with him. This would be very difficult though especially if this is Azazel from the film and he's got the recent (for him) memory of what Hobbes almost succeeded in doing to him fresh in his memory. I've got a large family so this also adds the difficulty that whilst I'm off in this remote location hoping Azazel will come to me he could be causing unpleasant things to happen to them. Defeatist as it may be my best bet might simply be to kill myself and hope he leaves them alone and goes off to play with someone else iirc he had a thing for destroying the lives of the rare people with the fortitude to resist him so with me gone my family may no longer interest him.