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What do you think would have happened?
Would the US and USSR have gone to war, like in Red Alert?
Would Japan ever have tried to be imperialistic?
Would France be a world power?

too many unknowns for me, except for the fact that Japan was already Imperialistic, way before Hitler even came to power.

Japan the USA would clash. Japan had eyes on China, the oil in the Dutch East Indies, etc.

A war between the US and Japan would come by 1945, likely around the same time as historical.

In Europe the west would find its self facing a rather large Soviet tank swarm by the early 40's if not sooner. The Soviets would expand into Poland and Finlandm going much further then historical. Then there would be a very big war.

Hitler shaped WW2 as we know it. But a huge war as coming no matter what Germany did.

Sea Skimmer wrote:A war between the US and Japan would come by 1945, likely around the same time as historical.

[shudders] Then the Bataan Death March and similar incidents would still have happened, if not more of them.

In Europe the west would find its self facing a rather large Soviet tank swarm by the early 40's if not sooner. The Soviets would expand into Poland and Finlandm going much further then historical. Then there would be a very big war.

A scary thought, indeed... a nuclear weapon used in Russian cities?

War in the Pacific would have not come for a extra year or two. Without war in Europe, Japan would have had an opportunity to entertain other sellers of oil after America decided on the embargo. Whether or not they would actually be able to find alternate sellers in Europe, I don't know, but it would have taken up a few more months of diplomacy, at least.

I think the more likely scenario in Europe would have been the communists coming to power in Germany. With the proximity of a communist country on its border, the french government could have been faced with a much bigger problem with its own communist wings. I don't know if a communist government in Germany would have cooperated extensively with Stalin, but I think it would be pretty safe to say that Stalin's hand in Europe would have been considerably stronger.

[personality hijack="Kolinar Koltrass"]

World history was a part of my Mentat training, and so was speculative imagery (EDIT: By the way, I'm a Singaporean, and a lot of us down here have forgiven but cannot forget Japan's war crimes)

[Mentat mode primed]

I will disect the sitaution carefully:

1. Firstly, in Red Alert, it was a war between Europe and Russia, NOT the U.S. The U.S. maintained an isolationist policy, and, unless the SOviets did another Pearl Harbour, they wouldn't get involved.

However, there is, nonetheless: 65% chance that Stalin would start a war. 20% chance that it would be Mussolini, and only a 15% chance that nothing would have happened until much later. The conditions of Europe at the time were ripe for war, with the growing Fascism(even in Britain) andthe rising of the spectre of Communism.

2. Japan would have dfeinitely been imperialistic: there's a 75% chance of that. Even though they signed a treaty with the Axis, nonetheless, they didn't necessarily needed Germany and Italy's help.

AFter all, forget the myth that Japan was under the Emperor: it truly was Fascist. The real power were the generals: the emperor was no more than a puppet figure.

And, yes, the Japanese would have invaded the Asia Pacific for colonies. An exemplary prime target would still be SIngapore, mainly for it's location( one must take into account SIngapore's strategic point in many of the world's trade routes. More business is done at this port than other ports in South East Asia).

But, of course: (1) Assuming the war happened before an actual war with Stalin, the British would have easily apprehended the Japanese Incursion, perhaps even before they could say a damn thing. And maybe, this time, Churchill would have all the guns of Singapore pointing in the right direction.

High speculation, yes, but, I still feel that the Japanese would have the chance to be imperialistic, even without the Axis. If they could fight Russia, they could be tough enough to handle the British.

But, of course: the British was still a leading miltary superpower at that time.

3) Oh. yeah right. Why in the vermillion hells would France ever be a world power ? Richelieu was dead, and so was that bastard Napoleon Bonaparte.

France would never even smell such a dream (unless, of course, a leader like Napoleon did rise). But that's another story.

[Mentat Mode locked]

[/personality hijack]

Gandalf wrote:What do you think would have happened?
Would the US and USSR have gone to war, like in Red Alert?
Would Japan ever have tried to be imperialistic?
Would France be a world power?

None of the above, actually. We would just remember the atrocities of the Nazi Regime as committed under the aegis of Reichsfuhrer Goering.

If the US and Japan had been the only two to go to war, and a war in Europe was not going at the same time, then the Japan war would, most likely, be shorter. Instead of fighting a two theater war, the US would be able to devote its resources solely to the war effort against Japan, instead of trying to divide it between Europe and Asia

There would still be anti-Semetic feelings all around Europe, and possibly in the United States.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: None of the above, actually. We would just remember the atrocities of the Nazi Regime as committed under the aegis of Reichsfuhrer Goering.

minus of course, the holocaust. That entire thing was the result
of adolf's twisted worldview...

Kolinar Romanov wrote: 3) Oh. yeah right. Why in the vermillion hells would France ever be a world power ? Richelieu was dead, and so was that bastard Napoleon Bonaparte.

France would never even smell such a dream (unless, of course, a leader like Napoleon did rise). But that's another story.

In a book I read, ("The Third Reich at War"), it stated that pre-WW2, France was regarded as having the worlds best army.

Gandalf wrote:

Kolinar Romanov wrote: 3) Oh. yeah right. Why in the vermillion hells would France ever be a world power ? Richelieu was dead, and so was that bastard Napoleon Bonaparte.

France would never even smell such a dream (unless, of course, a leader like Napoleon did rise). But that's another story.

In a book I read, ("The Third Reich at War"), it stated that pre-WW2, France was regarded as having the worlds best army.

That's good comedy.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Gandalf wrote:

Kolinar Romanov wrote: 3) Oh. yeah right. Why in the vermillion hells would France ever be a world power ? Richelieu was dead, and so was that bastard Napoleon Bonaparte.

France would never even smell such a dream (unless, of course, a leader like Napoleon did rise). But that's another story.

In a book I read, ("The Third Reich at War"), it stated that pre-WW2, France was regarded as having the worlds best army.

That's good comedy.

Seeing as it is a book about Germany, it could stand to reason that the Maginot Line came into it somehow.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Gandalf wrote:
In a book I read, ("The Third Reich at War"), it stated that pre-WW2, France was regarded as having the worlds best army.

That's good comedy.

Actually though the late 30's it was true.

War with Germany would still have happened. The Weimar Republic was imperialistic, with designs of reversing the defeat of World War 1.


The Treaty of Versailles garaunteed that war would eventually have broken out. Germany was not willing to tolerate that treaty.


Also the hatred of the Jews did not come from Hitler. The German people were strongly anti semetic. Germans have ahd a deep hatred of Jews for centuries. The German people deeply supported Hitler and the extermination of the Jews. Read "Hitler's Willing Executioners" to find out more about this.

Ableit that he was among the most cruel and twisted people in history, if he hadn't come to power, we'd still have a League of Nations. The US wouldn't have been considered a "world's policeman", and the Soviet Union would have probably gone to war, its fear of wear non-existent. Of course, the atomic bomb would not have been developed for lack of need.

When did research start into Atomic power and bombs?

Sienthal wrote:Ableit that he was among the most cruel and twisted people in history, if he hadn't come to power, we'd still have a League of Nations. The US wouldn't have been considered a "world's policeman", and the Soviet Union would have probably gone to war, its fear of wear non-existent. Of course, the atomic bomb would not have been developed for lack of need.

The League was never viabul nor would removing Hitler make it so. It would collapse just the same. The US would still have its huge economy and end up with a huge military. There is no question that the Union and the rest of Europe would be at war by the mid 40's if not sooner. And the Atomic bomb would be devoloped. It might take a few more years. But it would happen.

A few things would have happened:

1. Spain would have gone communist.
2. Any war with Japan would have started later and been shorted. Indeed, the USSR could have ended up slugging it out with Japan, not worrying about Germany.
3. Europe would have had new problems in stronger communist movements. Whether this would have been out and out war wiht the USSR,I don't know.

verilon wrote:

In Europe the west would find its self facing a rather large Soviet tank swarm by the early 40's if not sooner. The Soviets would expand into Poland and Finlandm going much further then historical. Then there would be a very big war.

A scary thought, indeed... a nuclear weapon used in Russian cities?

I doubt that would change anything. Unless it was a Key city like moscow, stalingrad or kiev, it would not have affected much except give the Soviets more will to fight to death.

And the T-34 rapes the M-4.

Necro99 wrote: And the T-34 rapes the M-4.

Ha, the M-4A3E8 held it's own against the T-34/85 in Korea

Do not buy into the widespread historical revisionist belief that Hitler's rabid hatred of the Jews was solely his idea. He merely caught a wave and rode on it. Germany picked him, not the other way around.

If America concentrates all of it's manpower and industrial capability into the Pacific, the Japanese Empire is going down fast and hard...

HemlockGrey wrote:If America concentrates all of it's manpower and industrial capability into the Pacific, the Japanese Empire is going down fast and hard...

Prewar US planning for an war with Japan estimated a length of two to three years. That assumed nothing to draw off US resource. And the goals of these plans where unrealistic, three years is a minimal.

The warships needed to launch a counter offensive simply can't be built any quicker. As it was the US had started building its fleet up in 1940 and it still wasn't until 1943 that they really started pouring out of the yards.