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Yes, yes, I know this is a lame thread, and if any of the moderators think it ought to be punted to Off-Topic, then please do so.

But my friend and I had a rather heated argument earlier today about which of these famous athletes would win in a legitimate fight at their respective peaks. He seems to believe that Arnold wasn't skilled enough to fight Hogan and that his strength wouldn't amount to much in an actual fight, while I hold that Hulk Hogan wasn't a particularly legit fighter and that Schwarzenegger's massive advantage in strength would basically be enough to eventually win the day.

So, for those of you with more education on the subject, could you please enlighten me?

I don't know, but Arnold Schwarzenegger did punch out Triple H once. I hope that helps quantifying how many asteroids he can vaporize. Now we need to find out how strong Hulk Hogan's deflector shields are.

A rule of pro wrestling: If you see it on-air, assume a work. I'd think the answer is more likely whoever got the jump on the other.

Arnold Schwarzenegger should take this. Hulk Hogan has no legitimate fight training, while Arnold one would assume has received a fair amount for his various action movie roles as well as having served in the Austrian army. Even giving Hulk an advantage in height is suspect as WWE wrestlers are notorious for inflating their own heights, so it is unlikely he is tall enough to make up for his weaker physical prowess.

In a fight between a top bodybuilder, such as peak Arnold, and a showman like Hogan, Arnold has the good odds because of his endurance and superior strength; Hogan was NOT known for the physicality of his performances.

If you replace Hogan with a pro wrestler known for the quality of his work, the odds tilt. I don't know a lot of pro wrestlers, but Bret Hart was reputed to have trained under fairly harsh conditions, and certainly there must have been others who were less wrestlers than brawlers turned pro.

Of course, if you sub in a 'celeb' pro wrestler such as Kurt Angle, Arnold would lose so big.

You are all underestimating Hulk hogan, based on his American appearances.

First, Hogan is actually 6'7, and 295 pounds (at his peak. i suspect the numbers are a little differnet now). In fact, back when he was wrestling as 'Terry Boulder, he was on a talk show with Lou "The Incredible hulk" Ferrigno, and dwarfed Lou on TV. That's why he started wrestling as "Terry "The Hulk" Boulder". So, Hogan has the size advantage over Arnold.

Strength is another question. Hogan has pulled some awesome feats of strength in his time. During his ORIGINAL fued with Andre the Giant (pre 'Hulkamania'), he slammed Andre routinely, and Andre was not a small man. I've heard qoutes that he also managed to 'suplex' him once, but I've never seen proof of that.

Unfortunately, in WWE wrestling, at least until recently, 'big guys are brawlers' is the rule.

Hogan, when allowed to 'cut lose' in Japan, during the day ('his peak'), was able to throw dropkicks, and had a reasonably diverse wrestling arsenal. Go to Wikipedia and read about his time in New Japan Pro Wrestling (1980 - 1983)

So, your selling Hogan short due to your limited knowledge of him. In his prime, allowed to do everything he could do, he'd be more comparable to Brock Lesnar then anyone. (Mind you, Brock Lesnar would still rip him apart).

Now, that being said.

Arnold has action movie star training. There is a difference between that and unarmed combat training and 'wrestling training'. Arnold is also not a stunt-man. In his prime, I'll give the mad credit, he probably did alot of his own 'stuff' (action wise), unless it was extremely risky. But that's what, 30 movies or so he did that in?

Hogan got paid to do that twice to three times a week, since 1977 or so, until what, 2001? Way more 'fake combat' experience then Arnold.

However, there is a possible offset. Arnold is/was friends with former WWF Champion 'Superstar' Billy Graham. It's possible he also had some wrestling training while doing the Mr. Olympic stuff at Golds Gym.

In the end....
I'd have to give this fight to Hogan. He's bigger, stronger, and has more 'fighting' experience then Arnold.

Mind you, in the box office, Arnold mops the floor with Hogan, and then tosses him out with the trash.

Unlike Brock Lesnar, Hogan doesn't have any high school or collegiate wrestling experience, but one would assume his career in pro wrestling would come with training, not including what Hogan would pick up just by being in the "sport." Wrestlers tend to dominate in fights because they can dictate where it will go. Unless Arnold knows any wrestling or high level Ju-Jitsu, it's unlikely he could stop a takedown by Hogan and prevent his face from getting smashed in.

My brother-in-law used to hang out with a few pro body builders. He would talk about the bigger of the guys getting winded just walking up stairs. They literally had too much muscle on their bodies. Also, contrast the look of a bodybuilder with that of many of the competitors on World's Strongest Man.

I like Arnold and would love to see him hit Hogan with a garbage can while saying something cheesy like "I'm taking out the trash." I just don't see it happening. Arnold maybe has more brute strength than Hogan, but wrestling teaches you how to use it. I would also question Arnold's cardio at his bodybuilding peak.

Yeah, hardcore bodybuilders are pretty often in goddamn terrible shape. They don't have a good diet, they tend to have bad hearts, and this isn't even touching on any steroid issues. They also don't have much performance muscle (performance for them is all about the show for them, afterall), unlike other athletes. I'd give it to Hogan.

Hulk Hogan used steroids pretty heavily for 20+ years, you know...

Terralthra wrote:Hulk Hogan used steroids pretty heavily for 20+ years, you know...

And? This is them at their peak. At his peak, steroids or not, Hogan had to be in great shape to keep up with the demands of being a professional wrestler.

This isn't them today going at it.

Solauren wrote:

Terralthra wrote:Hulk Hogan used steroids pretty heavily for 20+ years, you know...

And? This is them at their peak. At his peak, steroids or not, Hogan had to be in great shape to keep up with the demands of being a professional wrestler.

This isn't them today going at it.

And at his peak, Arnold had to be in great shape to keep up with the demands of being an action movie star. Loomer said that hardcore body-builders are often in terrible shape, and I was pointing out that pro wrestlers aren't known for health and wellness either, especially someone who testified under oath to taking steroids for the vast majority of his professional career.

Actually, pro wrestlers have to stay in good health to be able to perform night after night.

It's just some of them don't know when to 'quit' or back down.

loomer wrote:Yeah, hardcore bodybuilders are pretty often in goddamn terrible shape. They don't have a good diet, they tend to have bad hearts, and this isn't even touching on any steroid issues. They also don't have much performance muscle (performance for them is all about the show for them, afterall), unlike other athletes. I'd give it to Hogan.

Are you sure? I have heard about bodybuilders being extremely weak on competition days, but that is just because they dehydrate themselves on those days yo show greater definition. Aside from getting an artificial implant how can a muscle be performance or show? A bodybuilders goal is not performance but he still has huge legs, biceps, back, are you saying that he somehow trains in a way thats gives him massive muscles without the corresponding strength.

Terralthra wrote:And at his peak, Arnold had to be in great shape to keep up with the demands of being an action movie star. Loomer said that hardcore body-builders are often in terrible shape, and I was pointing out that pro wrestlers aren't known for health and wellness either, especially someone who testified under oath to taking steroids for the vast majority of his professional career.

I don't know much about pro-wrestling background (who's who and what happens behind closed doors) to be honest. What I do know is that these guys tend to run around for minutes (half hour or so or more) on end doing some pretty crazy shit. Action movie star or not, short scenes (or a part of one) before someone yells "cut" is all Arnold was dealing with. Him being too tired to continue might ruin a day of shooting. Hogan gassing out could ruin an entire show.

There's a big difference in the way you can put on muscle and putting on muscle to look good is different than flipping truck tires so you can compete in a physically demanding activity. There's a reason many wrestlers don't transition well to boxing. Not only is their physical build usually sub-prime for knock-out power, their stance isn't that great either. Guys like Sean Sherk and Urijah Faber (two well known wrestlers in MMA) aren't known for their knock-outs on the feet. They both have fairly crisp striking (considering), but there's a lot of arm punches. Just by looking at their arms, you'd think they would be throwing bricks. But much lankier fighters (Chuck Liddell (not so much anymore...) or Anderson Silva) are the guys with numerous KO victories on their records.

And pro-wrestling requires a lot of training to do right. You have to know how to roll correctly to avoid injury, but also how to tone down your own moves (while, hopefully, not looking like you're doing so) so you don't injure someone else. Pro-wrestling is pretty rough stuff. And getting hit with a chair designed to bend easily on impact is still getting hit with a chair.

In any street-fight, the safe bet is on the wrestler. The build required to compete comes along with the cardio. A striker is going to eat a double-leg takedown and get slammed and BJJ does not translate all that well to the real world when locking up an armbar can get you slammed head-first onto concrete.

Actually Arnold was involved in a variety of sports as a kid and has been a big advocate of cardio workouts. In his book "The Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding", he talks about the importance of incorporating cardiovascular training into any bodybuilding program, whether it be aerobics, running, etc.

Does anyone have the Predator DVD? I ask because Bill Duke (who played Mac) in an interview recounts the kind of workout that Jesse Ventura would go through to stay in shape which, if I remember right, consisted of 2 hours of weights followed by a ten mile run. Now, I think that he mentioned that Schwarzenegger would participate as well, but I'm not sure.

Now, on the one hand, that's arguably not Arnold at his peak since he was around 40 at the time and well past his bodybuilding career (i.e. define 'peak'). On the other, I would presume that he was already in pretty damn good shape if he could do that. Assuming that he did...

spaceviking wrote:

loomer wrote:Yeah, hardcore bodybuilders are pretty often in goddamn terrible shape. They don't have a good diet, they tend to have bad hearts, and this isn't even touching on any steroid issues. They also don't have much performance muscle (performance for them is all about the show for them, afterall), unlike other athletes. I'd give it to Hogan.

Are you sure? I have heard about bodybuilders being extremely weak on competition days, but that is just because they dehydrate themselves on those days yo show greater definition. Aside from getting an artificial implant how can a muscle be performance or show? A bodybuilders goal is not performance but he still has huge legs, biceps, back, are you saying that he somehow trains in a way thats gives him massive muscles without the corresponding strength.

Bodybuilder muscles are trained to get big, not necessarily to get strong. Someone doesn't need to have huge rippling muscles to be extremely strong. Someone referenced the World's Strongest Man competition, where none of the guys are ripped or have huge muscles... they're just fucking strong dudes.

The Spartan wrote:Does anyone have the Predator DVD? I ask because Bill Duke (who played Mac) in an interview recounts the kind of workout that Jesse Ventura would go through to stay in shape which, if I remember right, consisted of 2 hours of weights followed by a ten mile run. Now, I think that he mentioned that Schwarzenegger would participate as well, but I'm not sure.

Now, on the one hand, that's arguably not Arnold at his peak since he was around 40 at the time and well past his bodybuilding career (i.e. define 'peak'). On the other, I would presume that he was already in pretty damn good shape if he could do that. Assuming that he did...

Actually it was Schwarzenegger not Jesse Ventura who did the ten mile run trying to get other actors or even the producer to run with him and calling them pussies when they couldn't.
As said by others, Schwarzenegger was always fit and did cardio training during his body-builder years.

I think Jesse Ventura could take them both...at the same time since he is an ex navy seal.

SancheztheWhaler wrote:Bodybuilder muscles are trained to get big, not necessarily to get strong. Someone doesn't need to have huge rippling muscles to be extremely strong. Someone referenced the World's Strongest Man competition, where none of the guys are ripped or have huge muscles... they're just fucking strong dudes.

None of the guys have huge muscles? Please, just google pics of the World's Strongest Man competition, most of them have huge muscles. It is true they are not ripped and don't have as well defined muscles, but they are huge. Maybe they are more proportioned, but that's only because most of them are very tall. AFAIK one of the winners was 1,85m and was considered small, and I remember him being one of the most unproportioned of the lot.

Can I just jump in and say that having grappled with a former Mr Australia champ and Mr Universe competitor, those dudes are STRONG. Turns out having heaps of muscles /= weak. And this guy had a fucking separated/torn pectoral at the time and he was still able to manhandle a 170kg guy (me).

Hogan's stats were exaggerated in his prime, he was never 6'7 or 8, more like 6'5 and slowly lost height from surgeries but he was 300+ pounds on roids. Both Hogan and Arnold did roids in their primes but it's a toss up to say who is stronger, and I don't know any accounts of what weights Hogan used in workouts. Arnold's routines are more documented and he is down about 50 pounds to Hogan so it's going to be how skilled Arnold is in a fight. Has there been any accounts of Arnold getting into fights? Hogan might have an edge vs movie fight training just from how rough older wrestling was, there was a lot more hazing and working stiff in the 80s.

Speaking as someone who had a brief career in pro wrestling (All Japan, but still counts), I'm going to say that my gut leans toward Hogan, and here's why. If you ask just about any MMA fighter what the most valuable style of combat one can learn is, most are going to say it's wrestling or some kind of proficiency in grappling like Judo (believe it or not). Being able to manipulate someone while standing up or while being on the ground amounts to a huge advantage. If you've ever watched two people go at it at school or on the street, they probably ended up rolling around on the ground pretty quickly. Fights rarely amount to shit like you see in the movies where two idiots trade punches back and forth like a boxing match until someone goes down.

Although professional wrestling always inflates the physical stats of wrestlers like Hogan, I don't think this fight would be determined by larger arms or physical stature. And let's get real, both Hogan and Arnie have had a history of steroid use. Google Arnold and "steroids" to find quotes where he readily admits to it. The fight would come down to combat proficiency, and that's where I would think Hogan has the advantage. Pure bodybuilding is no substitute for combat training and experience. Pro wrestling is a show, but even mediocre fighters like Hogan CAN wrestle. I don't know if Arnie can fight, but even if he can, I don't think his bodybuilding regimen would provide the experience needed to take on someone who wrestles regularly.

The other factor here is what wrestlers would call "taking bumps." It's true that most of the drama and combat isn't real, but wrestlers being a human battering ram is. Wrestlers are usually pretty good at regularly being hit and tossed around (provided the injuries don't land them directly in the hospital), so again, I think Hogan would also have the advantage when it comes to endurance and stamina. Being hit just hurts a whole lot more if you're not used to it.

I'm sure Arnie is much smarter than Hulkster, but unless he can find a way to outsmart him and win, I'm going with Hulk.

I've seen some All Japan wrestling matches, Superman.

And some of 'bottom of the card' matches from All Japan blow alot of the 'main events' from WWE + WCW + 'ECW vWWE' out of the water in terms of what they pull off.

So, don't sell yourself short.

Wedge wrote:

SancheztheWhaler wrote:Bodybuilder muscles are trained to get big, not necessarily to get strong. Someone doesn't need to have huge rippling muscles to be extremely strong. Someone referenced the World's Strongest Man competition, where none of the guys are ripped or have huge muscles... they're just fucking strong dudes.

None of the guys have huge muscles? Please, just google pics of the World's Strongest Man competition, most of them have huge muscles. It is true they are not ripped and don't have as well defined muscles, but they are huge. Maybe they are more proportioned, but that's only because most of them are very tall. AFAIK one of the winners was 1,85m and was considered small, and I remember him being one of the most unproportioned of the lot.

Do you have an actual contribution, or is your only role here to nitpick some element of what I said which in no way contradicts anything that I said?

spaceviking wrote:

loomer wrote:Yeah, hardcore bodybuilders are pretty often in goddamn terrible shape. They don't have a good diet, they tend to have bad hearts, and this isn't even touching on any steroid issues. They also don't have much performance muscle (performance for them is all about the show for them, afterall), unlike other athletes. I'd give it to Hogan.

Are you sure? I have heard about bodybuilders being extremely weak on competition days, but that is just because they dehydrate themselves on those days yo show greater definition. Aside from getting an artificial implant how can a muscle be performance or show? A bodybuilders goal is not performance but he still has huge legs, biceps, back, are you saying that he somehow trains in a way thats gives him massive muscles without the corresponding strength.

It's basically a huge exaggeration. Those 'performance' muscles are still tremendously strong. The only difference is that body builders are going for a certain shape or a certain look which may limit their strength since they are trying to remain cut. For cookie cutter builders, they may be really disproportionate with some muscles that are disproportionately lacking. Actual body builders go for a balance though.

FYI, I looked it up and It looks like hogan's and arnold's bench press was quite similar at 5xx pounds. They each had the same chest measurements too at 58".