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Ok just went to see Trans-Siberian Orchestra with my mother-in-law. I had heard very little of their music previously, and what I'd heard reminded me of Manhiem Steamroller. Not my favorite style but not hideous so I went when she invited me.

I knew the they were known for their Christmas music, what I didn't know was that they are essentially a "Christian Rock" band, had I known this, I would have begged off. Now I'm not Christian and I'm pretty easily irritated by anything that smells of evangelism. While this wasn't as bad as some of the "Christian Rock" concerts with altar calls at the end or a bunch of tranced out hand waving evangelicals, it was very overtly "Christian".

Now aside from my annoyance with their religion, I will say they all seem to be at least competent, and many of them, very talented musicians, the drummer could compare favorably to the late John Bonham. that said, I saw 2 major faults;
#1 All of the 5 male "frontmen" seemed to have memorized "80s hair band rock star look and moves for dummies" the head pumping, fist raising, deep guitar playing postures all seem very contrived. I just didn't buy that these Sebastian Bach look-a-likes were that into heavy metal arrangements of "Greensleeves". Which brings me to my next problem

#2 They didn't seem to have an original musical thought in their heads. Heavy metal riff for 2 minutes, insert recognizable musical phrase from Christmas Carroll, or classical standard repeat for 3 minutes followed by 2 more minutes of heavy metal riff, rinse, change riff and Carroll, and repeat.

My mother-in-law is 71 years old and doesn't know that these folk are slinging Hard rock cliche's as fast as they can go, mom's just thrilled with all the pyrotechnics, light show and elevated walkways, and the fact that she recognizes some of the music through the wailing guitars.

Now as I said, I'm easily put off by a whiff of evangelism, so I ask am I looking to belittle an otherwise decent rock band cause I don't like the Heavy Metal Baby Jesus, or is this combination of Electric Light Orchestra, Metalica and The Mormon Tabernacle Choir really awful?

They come to Boise every year in the fall to do their Christmas carol type stuff; I never go. I didn't know they were a dedicated "Christian Rock" band and thought they were just a quirky band that liked to mix heavy metal stuff with classical or folk type tunes as their gimmick, and assumed that the rest of their shows during the year, if they had any, were similar in nature but not necessarily "Christmasy".

That said, what little (very little) I heard from them seemed harmless enough (but remember, I never went to a full show) and people I knew that went there never mentioned an evangelical twist. I'd treat it like any other evangelical experience and give the usual eyeroll-and-sigh treatment about the content. Bear in mind that the people you are speaking to may have heard your usual views so may shrug it off or give the "there you go again" routine.

As far as creativity, it does sound like they're stuck in a fairly predictable rut; they found a formula that works and they stick to it. Unfortunate, but it happens to a lot of bands. Nothing unusual there and a legitimate artistic criticism.

Really, it sounds like just another opportunity to shrug and go "meh"; the only thing that you might have a grievance that is worth pursuing is if the folks who took you know how you feel, and knew it was a Christian show, but lured you into going anyway in the hope that you "pick up on the Spirit", etc. If they knowingly tricked you, it'd be worth a gripe, but if they didn't, I'd say shrug it off and chalk it up to learning to be more careful next time you're invited somewhere.

Try to find the lemonade in the lemons and contemplate the notion of your elderly mother-in-law rocking out to heavy metal Beavis-and-Butthead style. To her, the cliches are probably a new experience and if you'd walked up out of No Context-ville and said "Let's listen to some Metallica" she would not have been so amenable.

It's not just you. I have a friend who went and saw them when they were in town here not long ago (I couldn't go because of work), and he said they weren't very good live.

Coyote wrote:They come to Boise every year in the fall to do their Christmas carol type stuff;

I didn't realize they came here at all. Am I really that oblivious? Did they come this year?

As for the OP, I'd agree. They're very much a samey group. I didn't realize they were Christian rock, though. Hmmm. For a better application of classical styling and rock music, I'd very much recommend Apocalyptica, if you haven't heard of them. It's a group of 4 (5? Can't remember) classically trained cellists who play hard rock tunes, usually without vocal accompaniment, sometimes with. They do a lot of Metallica, though they have some great original tracks as well. Really cool stuff.

I really enjoy TSO's material, and I'm not much of a Christian at this point in my life.

I do like their live shows, but I think they suffer from having far too many instrumentalists onstage at the same time. Needing all of those people to sync up leaves very little room for improvisation.

Their content is a lot more religious than, say, the Rolling Stones, but I think that they're a "Christian rock" band in the same way that Kansas is, and in many ways they're tamer in that regard than Kansas. The majority of their material does focus on the religious components of the holiday, but they celebrate the excess of Christmas as well and the secular components of it.

Their members have also toured with Black Sabbath, have had multiple divorces, battled alcoholism, and cite bands like Dio as inspirations. They're not exactly the white-gown, sequestered-in-a-cathedral Christian rock band.

With the definite exception of their oft-nauseating "Night Castle," I don't think there are any overtones of "believe in God or go to hell" or any attempts at conversion. Religious elements are used as a backdrop (as is the case in the subverted Deal with the Devil story on "Beethoven's Last Night," or the unifying story of an angel reporting to God on "Christmas Eve & Other Stories") but I don't know that it's fair to call them a Christian rock band because of it, or their concerts evangelical.

I like the group. It's holiday music reworked with electric guitars. They do have some Christian carols in there but that's hardly surprising.

Lord Relvenous wrote:

Coyote wrote:They come to Boise every year in the fall to do their Christmas carol type stuff;

I didn't realize they came here at all. Am I really that oblivious? Did they come this year?

Yeah, they were here in ...I think October or so. Sometime around Halloween, before or after, but definitely well before Thanksgiving... their usual timing to swing through the Boise area. They advertised on 100.3 "-the-X" radio station, which is the most reliable metal/alternative radio station I can find here.

Where are you at in Idaho? If you're up north, they may have a Spokane show which is closer; if you're out east, then Salt Lake would be closer.

Beethoven's last night is great. I wish they had stuck with the way they had developed with the aforementioned album, the rest just sucks.

TSO is essentially what happened to the band Savatage when they discovered that they could make way more money doing what they'd always done except with a Christmas theme. They are an 80s hair band. They are heavy metal rockers. And they sing a lot about Baby Jesus because it makes them more money than singing about Magellan.

Coyote wrote:

Lord Relvenous wrote:

Coyote wrote:They come to Boise every year in the fall to do their Christmas carol type stuff;

I didn't realize they came here at all. Am I really that oblivious? Did they come this year?

Yeah, they were here in ...I think October or so. Sometime around Halloween, before or after, but definitely well before Thanksgiving... their usual timing to swing through the Boise area. They advertised on 100.3 "-the-X" radio station, which is the most reliable metal/alternative radio station I can find here.

Where are you at in Idaho? If you're up north, they may have a Spokane show which is closer; if you're out east, then Salt Lake would be closer.

I'm in Boise. Hmm, I listen to the X most of the time. I must have a mental block keeping me from hearing the commercials or something. Anyways, I wasn't asking because I wanted to go, I was just surprised I hadn't realized they had been here.

My wife and I got free tickets to see them in Seattle last year. We left almost an hour early. We just weren't into it.

Coyote wrote:Try to find the lemonade in the lemons and contemplate the notion of your elderly mother-in-law rocking out to heavy metal Beavis-and-Butthead style. To her, the cliches are probably a new experience and if you'd walked up out of No Context-ville and said "Let's listen to some Metallica" she would not have been so amenable.

I just want to say that I know Mingo's MIL (for something like 35 years) and she's an absolutely wonderful woman with... perhaps this as one of her (minor) flaws. No, Mingo, it's not just you, I find TSO insipid at best but hey, if you can't stomach them and she needs someone to go with next year I'll stand in the line of fire for you. It can't be any worse than nearly having to carry her down seven flights of stairs during a 2 am fire drill at that SF con she went to with your wife and me.

It's not like she spent her formative years listening to heavy metal, or even rock. She missed all that the first time around. It really is new to her.

My mother and I considered going to this when they were in town, tickets were relatively cheap but we decided not to anyways.

I didn't know they were uber-Christian like you guys were saying o.o

I really enjoyed their concert when they came up to Ottawa, but I have a reputation for liking things that suck. I didn't get any more of a evangelical vibe off them than I would expect from anyone doing a specifically Christmas-themed show, but maybe they tone down their preaching in godless Canuckistan.

Guys. Read the thread. There is no "uber-Christian" or "preaching" going on here. As mentioned, they're a bunch of ex-Savatage guys, who put out such albums as Fight for the Rock, Live Devastation, and Dead Winter Dead. They're more likely to make devil horns than the sign of the cross.

Thanas and the Bro-Capt nailed it. Beethoven's Last Night is actually a pretty good concept album, so much so that my mother compared it to Andrew Lloyd Weber, and Savatage is better than TSO.

I am kinda baffled as to why people could moan about Christian music being in a band that seems to do many Christmas songs. In fact, I'd be surprised if it didn't. Hopefully though I will presume that the complaining about such things in this thread was not some sort of way of SDN filling it's "religion sucks hurr hurr" quota. I am sure you guys are far superior to be tempted by such juvenile behaviour.

Broomstick wrote: No, Mingo, it's not just you, I find TSO insipid at best but hey, if you can't stomach them and she needs someone to go with next year I'll stand in the line of fire for you.

Ok with benefit of some time, thought, and discussion, I have come to the following conclusions:
#1 TSO is not that uber Christian, I'm hypersensitive and have childhood issues regarding ANY Christmas music.

#2 "Insipid" better describes my opinion of their music. Artistically, my objections are a matter of taste, not a judgment of their skill as musicians.

#3 I'm happy to let Broomstick or my wife (who DOES want to hear them) fill in in my stead next time, but if neither can, I'll understand what I'm going to and take one for the team.

Broomstick wrote:It's not like she spent her formative years listening to heavy metal, or even rock. She missed all that the first time around. It really is new to her.

You're also right on this point Broomstick, I'm a little surprised that she enjoys music quite that heavy, but the world is full of surprises.

mingo wrote:#3 I'm happy to let Broomstick or my wife (who DOES want to hear them) fill in in my stead next time, but if neither can, I'll understand what I'm going to and take one for the team.

Hey, I just get desperate for entertainment and some time with other women, what can I say? I'm actually going to a knitting circle in Crown Point on Monday morning. With my luck, though, it'll probably be mostly guys knitting steel cable into chainmail.

Broomstick wrote:It's not like she spent her formative years listening to heavy metal, or even rock. She missed all that the first time around. It really is new to her.

You're also right on this point Broomstick, I'm a little surprised that she enjoys music quite that heavy, but the world is full of surprises.

She's doing the opposite of the norm you know - she's getting more open to new things with age instead of less. You're actually pretty damn lucky as far as mothers-in-law go.

KlavoHunter wrote:I didn't know they were uber-Christian like you guys were saying o.o

They're not. They have members that are Christians that do interviews with Christian magazines and websites, but they're not Christian Rock. What they do is take classic Christmas songs and rework them as neo-classical/symphonic rock songs, a lot of the more recognizable Christmas songs are religion related and a lot of really classical stuff is written in Latin, many being hymns.

Regardless, the religiosity of music is irrelevant so long as the music itself is enjoyable and isn't espousing outright stupid shit.

There is a difference between Gloria in Excelsis as a classic:

Or for a more modern example, I'm So Sick by Flyleaf.

And shit like this:

I hear them quite a bit around Christmas since WNCX pimps them out that time of year. Haven't heard them live or bought the albums (yet). I gotta say, mingo, you really need a thicker skin with religion. Yeah, TSO does Chiristmas song medleys mixed with metal riffs. Christianity is going to come with the territory. If that's as far as it goes, relax.