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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 855263.stm

I guess we must blame the Israelis for her not getting out of the way.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 855263.stm

I guess we must blame the Israelis for her not getting out of the way.

No, we blame the Israelis for going into Gaza and bulldozing people's homes, shooting or running over whoever tries to stand up to them. How many more civilians will they murder before this shit ends?

LOOK MOM I`M ROADKILL

It was depressing to watch those two folks defend the woman who jumped in front of a bulldozer. If one spends too much time pontificating his naval, he misses what is obvious -- right in front of his face. A stupid act is just a stupid act, regardless of one's intention.

The cocksuckers from freerepublic are having a ball with this one.

Call it stupidity if you want, but that woman had more balls than most of the pro war types.

Hameru wrote:The cocksuckers from freerepublic are having a ball with this one.

Call it stupidity if you want, but that woman had more balls than most of the pro war types.

Your right, she had more balls than the so called 'human shields'. Both groups need to take responsibility for her death, as well as the woman herself. All are to blame.

Whether or not we believe this is her fault, she is an American citizen. A trade in niceties and diplomacy will begin at once.

I predict an official apology - even if not televised, then delivered over the phone - from Tel Aviv to Washington. The soldiers responsible - ie, the operator and his commanding officer - might potentially face courts martial. They will almost certainly be black-listed.

Not that I think they could stop it. Some of those bulldozers are the size of a two-story home. Heavily-armored and loaded with combat equipage, they are virtually impossible to maneuver safely around something so small and fragile as a human being.

And just for the record, she was buried in sand and/if then crushed. So she probably suffocated before she died.

She died in a hospital according to the story I saw.

I guess they all learned a valuable lesson (bulldozer are heavy).

Died in the hospital? That's a third. Thus far, I've seen articles suggesting she was crushed or that she was buried.

Montcalm wrote:I guess they all learned a valuable lesson (bulldozer are heavy).

It isn't a "lesson learned" until it is applied in future actions. We'll call this a "lesson available." For the woman in question, there will be no further lessons...

jegs2 wrote:

Montcalm wrote:I guess they all learned a valuable lesson (bulldozer are heavy).

It isn't a "lesson learned" until it is applied in future actions. We'll call this a "lesson available." For the woman in question, there will be no further lessons...

Well, if you want to stand in front of a bulldozer for what ever reason don't be suprised if you come out a little squishy.

It's a shame she died but that was a pretty dumb thing to do.

Call it stupidity if you want, but that woman had more balls than most of the pro war types.

If having 'balls' means you jump in front of bulldozers, then I'm glad I don't have them, since I'd lose use of them pretty quick.

A lesson was learned: Bukkdozers are heavy.

HemlockGrey wrote:

Call it stupidity if you want, but that woman had more balls than most of the pro war types.

If having 'balls' means you jump in front of bulldozers, then I'm glad I don't have them, since I'd lose use of them pretty quick.

Shades of Bill Maher after September 11th...

Remember when he said we were cowards because we were being smart launching missiles at the Taliban while the terrorists were "brave" because they killed themselves in the WTC attack?

Anyway, that woman shouldn't have jumped in front of the bulldozer, and the Isrealis shouldn't have gone in there in the first place.

Wicked Pilot wrote:No, we blame the Israelis for going into Gaza and bulldozing people's homes, shooting or running over whoever tries to stand up to them. How many more civilians will they murder before this shit ends?

When the Palestinians also stop murdering civilians too, perhaps?

Doesn't this skirt the moratorium by more than a bit, anyway?

Hameru wrote:The cocksuckers from freerepublic are having a ball with this one.

Call it stupidity if you want, but that woman had more balls than most of the pro war types.

Yeah, I'll remember that when I'm clearing fucking minefields under fire. Lecture about courage after you've gotten out of your easy chair and received an MOS.

IMO this is another Darwin Award, just like all the idiots who went to Iraq for the purposes of being human shields. The politics involved are irrelevant here: no one with half a brain should be playing chicken with a fscking bulldozer on a jobsite let alone one being used for military operations.

She was probably proceeding under the false assumption that the people running this operation respect the value of human life and would not deliberately run somebody over. In America, that probably would have worked. Protests of that sort normally result in an impasse as drivers refuse to run people over and negotiators are called in.

Unfortunately for her, the rules are somewhat different in the occupied territories of Israel.

Darth Wong wrote:She was probably proceeding under the false assumption that the people running this operation respect the value of human life and would not deliberately run somebody over. In America, that probably would have worked. Protests of that sort normally result in an impasse as drivers refuse to run people over and negotiators are called in.

Unfortunately for her, the rules are somewhat different in the occupied territories of Israel.

She deserves a Darwin, IMO - She was there because the rules are different in the occupied territories and she was upset about that.

Israeli injustice this, Palastinian terrorists that... Why can't people accept that two sides of an argument can both be wrong?

This was reported in the Finnish newspaper Helsingin Sanomat too. That article quoted one of her fellow protesters who said that the driver of the bulldozer could clearly see her and deliberately ran her over instead of stopping. The CNN article on the issue alleges the same, though there is some conflcit on the accounts of the incident. It's one thing to stop for a moment and wait until the other troops on site drag the protestor away before leveling the building and another thing entirely to just callously and deliberately bulldoze her along with the building.

The fact that most Americans here are willing to just gloss over the deliberate murder of an American citizen by an allied country's armed forces is a clear indication of just how fucked up your world view regarding Israel is. If that had happened in Finland, I'd expect to have a fucking lot of explaining to do instead of having you people making up excuses for me.

I can understand the view of the military people with regard to civilians entering combat zones and getting killed, shit happens and they should be prepared for that, but if there is no enemy presence or threat and the civilians are deliberately killed by the "good guys", how can that be right?

Edi

While celebrating about the death of anyone is quite vile, I must say that the woman deserves a darwin because her actiosn, given the situation, were quite stupid.

I dislike any sort of Israel/Palestine "debate", but I'll let it be known that I don't condone either side anymore.

Darth Wong wrote:She was probably proceeding under the false assumption that the people running this operation respect the value of human life and would not deliberately run somebody over. In America, that probably would have worked. Protests of that sort normally result in an impasse as drivers refuse to run people over and negotiators are called in.

Unfortunately for her, the rules are somewhat different in the occupied territories of Israel.

I guess she never really watched the news cause she would have noticed that the Israeli can kill anyone,shooting unarmed kids Palestinians throwing rocks get shot,so was she thinking the bulldozer driver would have stopped for her

Montcalm wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:She was probably proceeding under the false assumption that the people running this operation respect the value of human life and would not deliberately run somebody over. In America, that probably would have worked. Protests of that sort normally result in an impasse as drivers refuse to run people over and negotiators are called in.

Unfortunately for her, the rules are somewhat different in the occupied territories of Israel.

I guess she never really watched the news cause she would have noticed that the Israeli can kill anyone,shooting unarmed kids Palestinians throwing rocks get shot,so was she thinking the bulldozer driver would have stopped for her

If you look at those huge military D-9s, you'll notice that visibility is not the strong point of such a machine and there were reports that she ran towards the house as the machine closed in.

There was probably little warning if any that the driver could have noticed. As this is a US citizen we're talking about, a full apology will be made anyway, but I can't seem to remember any instances when the Israelis have shot kids or other civilians (albeit, caught in crossfires etc.) and not apologised for their actions.

Both sides are as bad as the other anyway for this whole regional problem.