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Gorotex. What the hell is it?
Posted: 2003-03-21 06:31pm
by PeZook
Ok, I've been hearing numerous outrageous claims from some people lately, about a new 3rd generation Gorotex material, that supposedly can make you completely invisible in IR. A google search provided me with some ifnormation, mainly that gorotex is quite a popular material in civilian life as well - so now I'm confused, and thought that maybe I'll ask some of the engineering/military specialists over here.
The way I figure it, it's impossible to completely eliminate heat, since the soldier would quite literally boil under the uniform. Am I right?
Posted: 2003-03-21 06:33pm
by Crayz9000
Gore-Tex® is a thin, porous membrane that is bonded to fabrics like nylon and polyester to make them both waterproof and breathable. And yes, it really does work. How? The pores (9 billion pores per square inch) in the membrane are too small (20,000 times smaller) for water droplets to pass through, so rain and snow stay on the outside. But those same pores are large enough to allow molecules of water vapor (sweat) to pass through--making it "breathable" from the inside. It's important to note that Gore-Tex®, like all other waterproof/breathable membranes or coatings, has its limits. It is not completely waterproof or completely breathable in all conditions. Gore requires that all garments made with their product have factory seam-taping (to eliminate leaks), which requires special machinery.
Hmm... nothing about infrared camoflauge.
Posted: 2003-03-21 06:36pm
by Sea Skimmer
Gore-Tex won't do much anything to your thermal signature. Its filled will small holes to allow moister and air to circulate. It good for outdoors because it will keep you dry in the rain but not cause you to get just as wet from seating.
And personal will never be invisible or anywhere close to it in Infrared. You can't stop your body from making heat, unlike a vehicle which can simply turn off its engine.
Posted: 2003-03-21 06:39pm
by Howedar
Sure you can. First, you put a gun to your head...
Posted: 2003-03-21 06:43pm
by PeZook
Howedar wrote:Sure you can. First, you put a gun to your head...
It's rather not acceptable for a soldier who's supposed to achieve mission objectives before getting killed
Posted: 2003-03-21 07:09pm
by phongn
Howedar wrote:Sure you can. First, you put a gun to your head...
Your body will still be warm for awhile, though
Posted: 2003-03-21 07:10pm
by phongn
Sea Skimmer wrote:Gore-Tex won't do much anything to your thermal signature. Its filled will small holes to allow moister and air to circulate. It good for outdoors because it will keep you dry in the rain but not cause you to get just as wet from seating.
AFAIK, there are also different 'grades' of Gore-Tex that are better than others (and more expensive). I have a Gore-Tex jacket that it is quite warm, you don't sweat, but unless it's really, really cold I tend to overheat in it.
Posted: 2003-03-21 07:14pm
by PeZook
phongn wrote:Sea Skimmer wrote:Gore-Tex won't do much anything to your thermal signature. Its filled will small holes to allow moister and air to circulate. It good for outdoors because it will keep you dry in the rain but not cause you to get just as wet from seating.
AFAIK, there are also different 'grades' of Gore-Tex that are better than others (and more expensive). I have a Gore-Tex jacket that it is quite warm, you don't sweat, but unless it's really, really cold I tend to overheat in it.
Yeah, but as long as you produce heat, you will have to dump it somewhere, right? There's no going around conservation of energy. The guy I'm debating right now has proposed that you can "simply" use a heat-sink, and the problem goes away.
Posted: 2003-03-21 08:00pm
by phongn
PeZook wrote:phongn wrote:Sea Skimmer wrote:Gore-Tex won't do much anything to your thermal signature. Its filled will small holes to allow moister and air to circulate. It good for outdoors because it will keep you dry in the rain but not cause you to get just as wet from seating.
AFAIK, there are also different 'grades' of Gore-Tex that are better than others (and more expensive). I have a Gore-Tex jacket that it is quite warm, you don't sweat, but unless it's really, really cold I tend to overheat in it.
Yeah, but as long as you produce heat, you will have to dump it somewhere, right? There's no going around conservation of energy. The guy I'm debating right now has proposed that you can "simply" use a heat-sink, and the problem goes away.
Yeah, it gets dumped into the environment. A heatsink itself will radiate heat into the environment, there's simply no getting around it unless you have an anti-physics shield.
You probably can attempt to attenuate it, but that's it.
Posted: 2003-03-21 08:09pm
by Raxmei
Howedar wrote:Sure you can. First, you put a gun to your head...
It has been established that persons who have recently died have been returning to life and committing acts of murder...
Posted: 2003-03-21 09:30pm
by kojikun
Its quite easy to hide yourself from IR. Take one large cannister of compressed air/co2/etc, slowly depressurize it so it cools off dramatically, and BOOM, the surrounding air will be nice a cool, and you'll be nice and invisible because you will have cooled yourself off!
you can see this technique used against the graboid younglingers in Tremors 2. :
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