StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I am attempting to validate a proceedure I found online for a recipe for a lemon wine called Skeeter Pee. In it the vintor calls for ReaLemon (in the green bottles) which contains the following preservatives: Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Metabisulfite, And Sodium Sulfite.

The following exerpt is taken from the recipe:

Vigorously beat the mixture with a wire whip for a couple of minutes to introduce oxygen and purge it of artificial preservatives.

The following exerpt is taken from the FAQ:

Bottled lemon juice usually contains preservatives. Giving it a day to breathe lets some of these preservatives dissipate.

Now, I've conducted quite a bit of research online and can't find anyway to remove preservatives from a food product (or, I haven't put in the right search requirement). So, I'm thinking that these statements might be false. Be that as it may, I'm looking to find out why his recipe does actually work despite the general presence of artificial preservatives that generally prevent fermentation.

Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the link to the full recipe.

Thanks

If you're concerned about the preservatives, just get a shitload of lemons and juice them yourself. Low pH shouldn't be a problem, as yeast thrive and create a low-pH environment during fermentation. The real problem most people are probably having is the mishandling of the yeast--either using stressed/dying yeast from the end of a previous run, or not adding yeast nutrient as recommended.

Table sugar is very easily fermentable, it's true, but it's the yeast equivalent of a Big Mac: it makes them fart and shit a lot of CO2 and alcohol, but doesn't offer much in the way of nutritional value. That's why they make you keep adding yeast nutrient--otherwise, the fermentation would slow or get stuck, giving something else (sulfur-producing bacteria, for example) the chance to get in there and digest all that sugar.

i'm pretty sure he's talking out his arse. presvatives are there to hinder oxidation.

madd0ct0r wrote:i'm pretty sure he's talking out his arse. presvatives are there to hinder oxidation.

Right...so no amount of "whipping" to oxygenate the must (as is required generally when making fruit based wines) will "purge" it of any preservatives. That's what I thought.

My understanding (currently) is that no amount of boiling will release these preservatives either...yes? (Unless of course you were distilling the juice...but then that would pretty much blow the whole purpose of using the juice to begin with).

And no Alferd...I'm not concerned with preservatives myself as I would never use anything that contained them for a wine in the first place. As my original post stated, I was attempting to figure out the validity of his claims. As it appears now, he is assuming he knows that this is happening, but it is false. He calls for using (per his recipe) a yeast slurry from another wine. So, my conclusion is that these yeast are already healthy and when he introduces them into an environment with fresh "food" and nutrients, then they overcome the preventiveness of the preservatives in the ReaLemon juice. Which also may explain why people have a hard time pitching fresh yeast and having it stall to nothing.

I have found with using limes in a cherry limade wine I'm doing that it helps by de-acidifing the must a bit (by adding calcium carbonate) before pitching the yeast. Just creates an easier environment.

I don't see any way his method would do anything to get rid of a dissolved solvent in the juice. It's just an excuse to justify himself in his mind that the stuff is gone now. All he can do is aerate the juice making it more ready to be fermented as the things you use to make the wine uses oxygen to do it's job. More dissolved oxygen in the liquid when you put it in the faster it will get to work.

I totally agree with you Isolder74. I don't think it is a devious justification, his method works and is reproduceable. I just think that his lack of knowledge with regards to preservatives is leading him to deduce incorrectly.

If anything he's lowering the flavor of his juice as the volatile flavor compounds in the Lemon Oil that helps flavor it, I'm familiar with that brand, will escape from the use of the procedure. Getting the yeast on a head start does have a side effect of lowing the other bitter flavors slower yeast tends to produce.

I haven't tried his recipe and methods for myself...I modified the recipe to not include a lemon juice with preservatives...so I'm not sure how it actually taste. I actually used a lemon drop mixer that has a 12% pABV rating just by itself from Stirrings and I'm about ready to bottle it. It doesn't taste that bad either, made a 5 gallon batch. Has somewhat of a "flinstones vitamine" flavor to it (bottle reads "fortified with Vitamin A, C, & D). Others that have tried his recipe and methods and posted their stories in his guestbook (some that have won awards) all rave about the flavor. He's using 96 ounces of ReaLemon in a 5 gallon batch which is equal to 15% flavoring. Simply Lemonade uses only 11% fruit juice. So it is probably on par with that if not better, plus it finishes with a 10% ABV.


My next attempt will to use Lakewood Organic Lemon Juice on a 15% flavoring ratio for a 5 gallon batch. I'm expecting it to be really good.

Well, several of those preservatives do have fungi-static effects, but you need to keep in mind the concentrations. The preservatives are there to protect a 32 oz bottle of juice against some free floating atmospheric fungi, a job they no doubt perform well. When you dilute that bottle with a gallon of water, add some yeast and yeast food, those preservatives suddenly become as useful as a catflap on an elephant house.

And beating the mix with a wire whip almost certainly does encourage oxidation and lowers the final products taste.