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Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-22 02:53am
by Bug-Eyed Earl
OK, to start with- I have done and will do more research on this topic. There's the old story that goes something like this: the child prodigy who plays every note of a classical music piece perfectly and the adult who says he played it, but didn't feel it. So I am asking for any help, be it advice, info, or links that I may have missed.

I am writing a story set in a late 18th century analog of France; the main character has a hobby of making puzzle contraptions. In an outline I said she works in a "machine shop" where she can acquire the scrap needed to make and sell these puzzles along with the regular wares the owner of the shop sells. Now the time has come to flesh out what she does the rest of the time. To start with, the shop being a blacksmith could also work. There is a little bit of steampunk in this world. I envision this shop as a small shop, with only the owner and her as an apprentice.

While throwing around ideas for what else they could do and remembering my one year of shop class, I imagine that they can also sell small parts individually or in bulk, such as gears or any number of such things they have molds for. I remember packing the dirt around the mold and pouring in the molten metal. They could make swords, both decorative as well as functional. Armor could easily be made as well; they're not strictly beholden to the time and place the world is analogous to; the Grande Armee often wore armor and it could be even more commonplace in this world. There are many things a smith could make, but I want to touch on machines as well. Engines, both steam and coal powered. And a lot of it might be too much for a small shop, but better for a large factory. I would like a little advice on what is realistic for a small but well equipped business to do; if there's not too much they can do that actually works in my favor because I can play off the main character's unfulfilled ambitions to work on engines and the like.

I know nothing about engines. I am not in the slightest bit adept in mechanics. I wanted to stretch a little and have a lead who knows all of this.

I know I can flesh out the details of their man character's work with my own ideas that are unique to this world. I just need some information that will flesh out a day in the work life of the character. Thanks- I apologize if it rambled a little bit but I feared organizing it would have made it even longer.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-22 04:33am
by Broomstick
A couple of thoughts:

1) Women typically were not employed in such pursuits in the 18th Century. Of course, it's your story, do what you want, but the muscle power required for blacksmithing has always meant that the profession is male dominated. It's not impossible for a woman to do this but she's at a real disadvantage. These days we have powered tools to take a lot of the brute labor out of it which levels the playing field somewhat, but even so metalworkering on all levels is still dominated by men. Women metalworkers tended towards either jewelry sized items or parts of the field that required less muscle power.

2) Smiths that made armor or swords tended to be specialized in those pursuits, making only those things and not a range of items.

3) Consider making your character a clockwork apprentice. She would be at less of a physical disadvantage, that is actually the specialty that made things with gears, often quite complex mechanisms, and has a very long history (see antikythera mechanism). That is also a place that could conceivably make "puzzle contraptions" It would also fit nicely with a steampunk setting.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-22 08:42am
by Korto
Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:I imagine that they can also sell small parts individually or in bulk, such as gears or any number of such things they have molds for. I remember packing the dirt around the mold and pouring in the molten metal.
That's a foundry, not blacksmiths. Completely different trade. Was the "dirt" a bit damp? Green-sand. Black? Had a bit of coal-dust mixed into it. Anything made in green-sand would have to be cleaned (filed and sanded smooth) afterwards, particularly if it was gears.
Pattern-making is another separate trade, and quite skilled.
They could make swords, both decorative as well as functional. Armor could easily be made as well
Wouldn't want to cast a steel sword blade, to my memory cast steel tended to the brittle. You could cast the pommels, though.
There are many things a smith could make, but I want to touch on machines as well. Engines, both steam and coal powered. And a lot of it might be too much for a small shop, but better for a large factory.
Maybe they do one-off prototypes, proof-of-concepts before young inventors take it to a bigger factory. Would demand imagination, skill, and attention to fine detail. And there's always one-off and small-run jobs that aren't worth a big factory and do better with the personal attention of a small shop.
I would like a little advice on what is realistic for a small but well equipped business to do;
To do engines, you're definitely needing a foundry. Your main limit is how much metal they can melt at one time. With two people, you may be able to work 40kg safely, but it'd be a strain. We did 20. There'd probably be 2 furnaces, so for big jobs you could have both running and so double the amount of metal.
Mind you, casting ferrous and non-ferrous metals (ie, iron or brass) are normally two different specialties, even these days. I'd suggest they would more likely work in non-ferrous; brass and bronze. It's favoured for cogs, gears, and odd bits; it's easier to melt, easier to machine, and doesn't rust. Iron's a pain in the arse anyway. We deliberately didn't tell the students we could melt iron
I know I can flesh out the details of their man character's work with my own ideas that are unique to this world. I just need some information that will flesh out a day in the work life of the character. Thanks- I apologize if it rambled a little bit but I feared organizing it would have made it even longer.
I could probably tell you a few details of foundry-work. Ask some questions, and I'll see what I can do.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-24 08:37am
by Bug-Eyed Earl
Thanks, you two. this is really helpful.

What needs to be:

The girl's puzzles are integral to the plot, so the clockwork apprentice idea is one that I will definitely keep. What also is important is that she is into other more masculine pursuits. She was a street kid who befriended the shop owner and started to learn the trade. She has vague ideas of fleeing her country, which is on a decline, to a neighboring one that is undergoing an economic and industrial boom. In a way that I think is very credible for kids without a lot of life experience she thinks all she has to do is learn the trade and the world will be at her fingertips; it is the sexism of the society that she lives in that finally brings her back down to reality. Perhaps also realizing her physical limitations depending on what the shop owner's trade is also something that could happen at the same time; I do specify that she's a little small for her age. Her mother finally takes steps to secure her future and manages to get her a place in a local finishing school.

It is established early on that her mother does not approve of her learning a masculine trade. It is the setback at her work and being sent to a place she hates to go to school that leave her at a low point before she receives another opportunity thanks to her puzzles, which sets the rest of the story in motion. I may have thrown a lot out there for what she could be learning, but to sum it up, what is most important is that she is interested in a trade not thought to be traditionally feminine that requires a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. And it has to be something she can still acquire enough skill in to be good at even if there are some physical limitations. It can be directly connected to clockwork but does not have to be; it can be possible that the shop owner knows both. Him being multi-talented can work to portray him as larger than life from her point of view, though of course I will steer far well clear of such cliches as in movies when an expert in one field of science is expected to be an all purpose scientific adviser.

Korto's idea of a one-off shop for smaller jobs is also a strong one I am leaning toward. I think we can switch to discussing this via PMs now if no one else has anything they want to add. Thanks, all.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-24 07:13pm
by CaiusWickersham
Masters didn't train apprentices for free unless they were family. Those apprentices coming in from outside would pay a hefty amount of money to the master to cover the costs of training the apprentice (room & board, botched material, etc.). Apprentices would be doing the rote drudge work of the trade along with the cleaning (apprentice blacksmiths would spend 3-4 years alone working the grinding wheel for a journeyman or the master himself; after that would be pumping the bellows and filing finished work).

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-25 05:25am
by LaCroix
On average, training for becoming a master blacksmith could be done in less than half a year. The other 6.5 years, you were working your ass off to pay for that training.
You started as little more than a human drive for a grinding wheel or the bellows, and a mule for hauling coal and material, and a broom-pusher. Years later, when you got strong enough, you would be used as a striker for the journeymen working raw steel into rods/strips of various sizes for the master to use, on top of the other duties. Then, when you know how to do this, you will advance to journeyman, and usually be the one supervising the strikers, acting as striker for the master or older journeymen, or grinding stuff. In your "spare time" (which means the master has nothing to do for you), you will start making nails, clamps and such stuff in bulk. After some time, you will be a senior journeyman, and put to work on real projects, where you will learn the true art of the trade.

Even dismissing the permanent heckling of seniors (they also went through that, so it's a rite of passage - and would be much, much worse for a girl, as you'd recon), there is little chance she could get through that training, especially if she's a girl on the smallish side. Especially since she'd probably never get strong enough to become a striker, and that would lead to her getting kicked out for not being economical. (If she were accepted, at all)

A clockworker, who gets metal disks as raw material an 'only' hammers and files them to gears would be a much better choice, especially as her small hands would be helpful in fitting stuff into tiny spaces. You don't need that much strenght to hammer a flat brass disk into an even flatter disk, and the shaping by file is a thing of precision, not brute force, so she isn't that much at a disadvantage in comparison to boys. Having small hands, she could also reach into a clockwork without having to dismantle everything, making small repairs (unblocking a pendulum or weight chain) much easier, and giving her an actual advantage in some cases.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-25 01:26pm
by Thanas
If she has to be a smith, make her a Goldsmith as they would handle finer stuff. But it is very unlikely they would teach those trade secrets to someone who wandered in off the street.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-25 02:05pm
by Broomstick
She could be a niece of the master - taking in a relative and teaching a trade was fairly common back in the day. There is precedent for tradeswomen in the less physically taxing trades, but nearly all of them were the relatives of the teaching master.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-25 02:08pm
by Thanas
Broomstick wrote:She could be a niece of the master - taking in a relative and teaching a trade was fairly common back in the day. There is precedent for tradeswomen in the less physically taxing trades, but nearly all of them were the relatives of the teaching master.
Won't work:
Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:She was a street kid who befriended the shop owner and started to learn the trade.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-25 04:48pm
by LaCroix
For the same reason, a goldsmith wouldn't work. Noone would take a street rat into employ when there is literally gold lying around in the shop.

Take an old, impoverished clockmaker who's getting to old to work (shaky hands) and has a bit of a bad reputation because of that(had some work has failed spectacularly enough to become public laughing stock). Noone would want to work for him, and the meagre income he still has is taking a hit because of his inabilty to work like he was used to. He might be willing to take up any apprentice he might get. Also, she would learn more, as she would literally be his right hand.

Re: Research on 18th cent. Smithery/mechanics help

Posted: 2013-11-25 06:36pm
by Korto
That sounds reasonable. Alternatively, you could give up on the no-relation gutter urchin and make her a relative. If not directly a daughter, then a niece as Broomstick suggested, perhaps orphaned and impoverished.
I think Dickens is set in this time period? Could give a decent idea of the social feel.

A clockmaker does seem like a good option. It's a highly skilled craft demanding care and intelligence, but not so much heavy lifting.
If you mean to have things like being involved in the building of engines and the like, then perhaps the old guy runs and plans thing like that, and has relationships with other craftsmen. A favoured foundry, blacksmithy, etc, and the people there could be important secondary characters. It could also be the old guy likes to supervise that work, and other times sends the girl along to keep an eye on things.