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To show society the economic impact if blacks lose thier status in society, as part of our protest against ending Afirmative Action.


I was very leery about AA, but after attending the NSBE National Convention, I have changed my views. AA is something that needs to continue for the good of minorities.

Lord MJ wrote:To show society the economic impact if blacks lose thier status in society, as part of our protest against ending Afirmative Action.


I was very leery about AA, but after attending the NSBE National Convention, I have changed my views. AA is something that needs to continue for the good of minorities.

NSBE? National Society of Black Engineers?

And do I sense another debate on Affirmative Action brewing?

Ah well. Hows does not spending money help AA, anyway, aside from maybe harming business that have nothing to do with it whatsoever?

I was very leery about AA, but after attending the NSBE National Convention, I have changed my views. AA is something that needs to continue for the good of minorities.

Yep, it's real good for minorities to have their coworkers think that they only got their jobs because of their minority status rather than on merit/talent/education.

Glocksman wrote:

I was very leery about AA, but after attending the NSBE National Convention, I have changed my views. AA is something that needs to continue for the good of minorities.

Yep, it's real good for minorities to have their coworkers think that they only got their jobs because of their minority status rather than on merit/talent/education.

That is actually a situationally dependent value judgement. If you take a hypothetical situation where racism is overt and rampant, that is a small price to pay for getting minorities a foot in the door (coworker suspicion is better than lifetime unemployment and endless doors closed to you because of your race). Conversely, if you take a hypothetical situation where racism is virtually nonexistent, then AA causes more problems than it solves.

Therefore, one's opinion on AA tends to depend on whether one believes there is still a serious racism problem in America. Blacks tend to believe there is, while most whites pooh-pooh it and say the blacks are just making it all up (although they're rarely blunt enough to come out and say it in those terms).

Darth Wong wrote:That is actually a situationally dependent value judgement. If you take a hypothetical situation where racism is overt and rampant, that is a small price to pay for getting minorities a foot in the door (coworker suspicion is better than lifetime unemployment and endless doors closed to you because of your race). Conversely, if you take a hypothetical situation where racism is virtually nonexistent, then AA causes more problems than it solves.

Therefore, one's opinion on AA tends to depend on whether one believes there is still a serious racism problem in America. Blacks tend to believe there is, while most whites pooh-pooh it and say the blacks are just making it all up (although they're rarely blunt enough to come out and say it in those terms).

They're all making it up.

But, seriously, I have yet to witness for myself any signs of racism. I'm sure it exists, but I don't think it's the major problem some people make it out to be, at least in my own personal experience.

In my area, this economic protest will not be noticed in the slightest.

RogueIce wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:That is actually a situationally dependent value judgement. If you take a hypothetical situation where racism is overt and rampant, that is a small price to pay for getting minorities a foot in the door (coworker suspicion is better than lifetime unemployment and endless doors closed to you because of your race). Conversely, if you take a hypothetical situation where racism is virtually nonexistent, then AA causes more problems than it solves.

Therefore, one's opinion on AA tends to depend on whether one believes there is still a serious racism problem in America. Blacks tend to believe there is, while most whites pooh-pooh it and say the blacks are just making it all up (although they're rarely blunt enough to come out and say it in those terms).

They're all making it up.

But, seriously, I have yet to witness for myself any signs of racism. I'm sure it exists, but I don't think it's the major problem some people make it out to be, at least in my own personal experience.

It's still a problem, though nowhere near the crippling problem it used to be.

Then maybe their coworkers should brush up on what exactly affirmative action is. It's an equalizer. Minorities are minorities because they represent a smaller portion of the population than 50%. So, statistically, more white kids will apply for a university than black kids. Let's say you've got four applicants. Three are white, one is black. They are all equally qualified.

Which one do you pick? Statistically, you're more likely to pick a white applicant than a black one. Affirmative action tells you to pick the black applicant by default every once in a while, evening up the playing field. It is there to make sure that minorities are fairly represented in jobs and education.

Is this unfair to white students? Sure. But is it fair that white people enjoy the benefits of centuries'-worth of enslavement of another race?

Now, to be fair, should the black community be doing a little more work to present black people with respectable positions in society which require education, not just actors, musicians and athletes? Yes. Rappers constantly bitching and moaning about their bitches and hoes, oppression, drug wars and how much cops suck aren't good role models, period. They tell young black kids that all they can ever aspire to be is someone like them, who might not have even graduated high school. They need to promote people like Colin Powell more to young black kids. They need to get rid of the idea that Colin Powell is "trying to be like the white man" or is only where he is because he "kissed the white man's shoes" and not as a result of hard work and education. Personally, I think the black community has done a piss-poor job of it.

They can't escape their share of the blame for their status in society forever. Appealing to slavery will only work for so much time. Eventually, they'll have to step up and get themselves some real role models; that's why affirmative action is there, to help them on their way. But it's by no means supposed to be permanent, and it will go away one day.

RogueIce wrote:But, seriously, I have yet to witness for myself any signs of racism. I'm sure it exists, but I don't think it's the major problem some people make it out to be, at least in my own personal experience.

Racism is regionally variable (naturally). The level of racism in Chicago is different than what you'd see in, say, Alabama. It is also more visible if you're victimized by it; few white people observe racism simply because A) they don't pay attention to it and B) it is rarely directed at them. It's like saying you've never observed anti-gay sentiment; anti-gay sentiment often does not come out of the woodwork until a gay person shows up.

Eh, whatever.
If it works it works if it don't it don't.

Lord MJ wrote:To show society the economic impact if blacks lose thier status in society, as part of our protest against ending Afirmative Action.


I was very leery about AA, but after attending the NSBE National Convention, I have changed my views. AA is something that needs to continue for the good of minorities.

Really? I'm a minority. I'm given no extra consideration. In fact, it's MUCH MUCH harder for me to get a job, go to school, etc because I need to not only do well, but shine.

Darth Wong wrote:Racism is regionally variable (naturally). The level of racism in Chicago is different than what you'd see in, say, Alabama. It is also more visible if you're victimized by it; few white people observe racism simply because A) they don't pay attention to it and B) it is rarely directed at them. It's like saying you've never observed anti-gay sentiment; anti-gay sentiment often does not come out of the woodwork until a gay person shows up.

True enough. THough when I've hung out around non-white people I never come across it, nor have they ever said anything about it (and with the people I know, they would. Loudly. )

But, then, it's just my experience. And my school is pretty mixed, but there've never been race problems. In fact, when they do the whole multi-cultural stuff or mention race tolerance, etc, the eye-rolling is universal to ALL the student body (for the simple reason, we don't HAVE that problem).

But that's just my little corner of the world.

It is my personal belief that AA is a necessary evil; that it is racist, but sadly necessary, due to the sheer amount of racism that still exists in the upper echelons of the American oligarchy, among the rich white corporate fatcats.

That is actually a situationally dependent value judgement. If you take a hypothetical situation where racism is overt and rampant, that is a small price to pay for getting minorities a foot in the door (coworker suspicion is better than lifetime unemployment and endless doors closed to you because of your race).

True.

However, wouldn't the experience of being not-hired/rejected/whatever beause you happen to be in the majority breed feelings of resentment and hatred?

In other words, does AA actually breed race hatred and resentment among those who normally wouldn't have those feelings?

Hey does this mean I'll be able to go to the movies in my neighborhood and not have to hear people speaking or yelling at the screen?????

You New Yorkers KNOW what i'm talking about.

Stravo wrote:Hey does this mean I'll be able to go to the movies in my neighborhood and not have to hear people speaking or yelling at the screen?????

You New Yorkers KNOW what i'm talking about.

Reminds me of the time I was at the Roosevelt Field or Raceway theater and some obnoxious asshole cycled through his ringtones in the middle of TTT.

Not spending any money on one particular day is the ineffective at best. Sure, you'll affect sales on that one particular day, but itll be made up for on the preceding and following days. The net affect of this type of boycott day is zero.

If you want attention AND effectiveness try boycotting a particular Industry around a year. What ever Industry you chose will certainly have the hurt put onto it (presuming that you were a large portion of its sales before the boycott) and will likely elminate whatever offensive policy it previously had.

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Not spending any money on one particular day is the ineffective at best. Sure, you'll affect sales on that one particular day, but itll be made up for on the preceding and following days. The net affect of this type of boycott day is zero.

If you want attention AND effectiveness try boycotting a particular Industry around a year. What ever Industry you chose will certainly have the hurt put onto it (presuming that you were a large portion of its sales before the boycott) and will likely elminate whatever offensive policy it previously had.

Boycott rap!

And no, this isn't based on the race thing, just a coincidence. I want someone to boycott rap, no matter who it is or what the circumstances!

Stravo wrote:Hey does this mean I'll be able to go to the movies in my neighborhood and not have to hear people speaking or yelling at the screen?????

You New Yorkers KNOW what i'm talking about.

Reminds me of an old Bobby Slayton bit.

"You can make a movie called White Men Can't Jump ... you dare make a movie called Black People Cannot Seem to Shut the Hell Up in a Movie Theatre ..."

RogueIce wrote:Boycott rap!

And no, this isn't based on the race thing, just a coincidence. I want someone to boycott rap, no matter who it is or what the circumstances!

Agreed. Rap is mostly shit, and the fact that a white guy who looks like a rat or some other rodent is the best one takes away its credibility as a black music genre.

Durandal wrote:Reminds me of an old Bobby Slayton bit.

"You can make a movie called White Men Can't Jump ... you dare make a movie called Black People Cannot Seem to Shut the Hell Up in a Movie Theatre ..."

Ah, the infamous double standard... Like when black people can use the n-word, but God help a white person who would...

I'm in this program called CHILL, and on the bus to the ski hill, the ONLY kids who are loud, mean, at risk of getting kicked off, are the black kids.

This always seems to me to be the norm, that it is the black students who are the most rambunxious(sp?), although there are white students who are like that, but they are the ones who are the closest friends with the black students.

Glocksman wrote:

That is actually a situationally dependent value judgement. If you take a hypothetical situation where racism is overt and rampant, that is a small price to pay for getting minorities a foot in the door (coworker suspicion is better than lifetime unemployment and endless doors closed to you because of your race).

True.

However, wouldn't the experience of being not-hired/rejected/whatever beause you happen to be in the majority breed feelings of resentment and hatred?

In other words, does AA actually breed race hatred and resentment among those who normally wouldn't have those feelings?

If racism is rampant and overt, this is an irrelevant question. They hate the minority already. I already pointed out that it's situationally dependent; AA is beneficial in a racist environment, detrimental in a non-racist environment. That's why your assessment of the level of racism is key to your assessment of AA.

Ted wrote:I'm in this program called CHILL, and on the bus to the ski hill, the ONLY kids who are loud, mean, at risk of getting kicked off, are the black kids.

They've been taught their whole lives that to be black is to struggle against authority. It's not surprising.