Aging like wine, aging like milk

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Like many children of the 80's before me, I heard one too many Cocoon references and decided I needed to watch it so I would understand what the hell my parents have been talking about all these years. It came out the same year as Back to the Future, so I should know it, right? In so doing, I came across this picture of Wilford Brimley:



I thought "How the hell could anyone who looked like that in 1985 still be alive?" It turns out that he was only 51 when that picture was taken. My mind immediately flashed to another 51 year-old that I've seen perform live here in SF recently (Outside Lands 2013), John Stamos:



I know medical technology has advanced in the last 30 years, but it doesn't stop the knowledge that these two men are the same age from striking me in the face like a baseball bat. Whenever we see someone quoted in a newspaper or magazine article, we almost always see their age attached after a comma. After all, 32, that's the most important thing you can know about a person, right? Yet it doesn't seem that any of us age at the same rate in any way that matters. Wilford Brimley was born in 1934, which was 51 years before 1985; John Stamos was born in 1963, also 51 years before today (August birthday), but can you really say that those two are the same age? Given his genetics, Brimley would have only been considered young in his early 20's, and would have had to "lock it down" during that time to get the most desirable mate. According to IMDB, he's been married to the same spouse since 1956 when he would have been 22. Now, times were different then, and anyone who wasn't married by 30 was the subject of worry, but Stamos can still easily compete for 20 and 30-something women even if he weren't famous, decades after Brimley would have been relegated to grandpa status. Even in the 1950's, Stamos could have found his "Gigi".

In my own life, I have carded many people as a bank teller and courier delivering alcohol, and have recently been astonished to learn that a few "distinguished"-looking men whose bald heads were punctuated with a few gray tufts were in fact younger than me. In fact, my best friend "Eddy" (referenced in my other rambling OT post) is starting to show some distinct gray despite being 2 years my junior. My dad will turn 70 this year, but looks like a physically active man in his 50's. His brother Mike was shaving every day by the age of 13 while my dad was the smallest kid in his class and the latest to develop, but Mike died at 56 while my dad seems set *fingers crossed* to live into his 90's. I clearly take after my dad, a very late bloomer. I never masturbated until I was 15, never had a sexual experience until 20, and never properly busted my cherry until 26. Is it a coincidence that I still get carded and have no baldness, wrinkles, or gray hairs at 32? Looking back, it seems that I got screwed (figuratively, but definitely not literally) in my late teens and early 20's: I looked and acted like a boy and was competing against men. Yet even if you count all of the years from 18 to 26 (when I had my first relationship) as a wash, I will be blessed with many more "attractive" years than most guys (26-32, 32-50? = 24 years).

Even forgetting about looks, I have encountered many people in their 50's, 60's, 70's and older who should be able to school me on the facts of life or history but end up taking mental notes when I talk about events that I read about and they lived through (especially the Vietnnam War). It seems like a lot of people reach a critical mass of knowledge at a fairly early age and say "this learning shit hurts my brain, make it stop!". Other people never stop learning, and continue to challenge themselves and others mentally even when physically their bladders are unable to rise to the challenge of a medium-sized juice box. Is it really fair to say that Stephen Hawking or Paul McCartney (both 73) are the same age as someone else who was born in 1943 but set his/her world view at 18 (in 1961, before civil rights) and is now in assisted living?

I know that the subject of aging has been studied ad nauseam by science, but science is constrained by statistics and controllable factors, and aging is so unpredictable and variable as to make scientific results seem bland and obvious. So I put the question to the SD.netizens, a community that has been around for 18 years (marking the beginning as ASVS in 1997): what is aging, really? Are John Stamos in 2015 and Wilford Brimley in 1985 really the same age at 51? Is age a function of simple passage of time or do accumulation of knowledge and do youthful good looks play a role? What role does "giving up" play? It seems that some people give up after high school, and everything is downhill from there. Others give up at 30 or 40 with similar results. Others give up after retirement at 63-67 and the signs of decline are immediately (and physically) apparent. Some don't call it quits until the outside world forces them to (in the investing world: Philip Fisher in the 1980's, Warren Buffet today), yet even after they cease to contribute to the state of their art, they manage to contribute philosophically. What about athletes that set world records in the 80+ age category, especially when those aren't the same people that originally set the records 50+ years prior?

Ultimately, is age nuthin' but a number? And what goes into that number? Discuss!

[Broomstick]

Age isn't just one thing or one number, it's a multi-factorial thing.

There is your chronological age, how long since your birth.
There is how old you look.
There is how old you body functions.

The first two are the easiest to determine, but the last one has a lot more to do with how long you actually live and the quality of your life.

First, another example of disparate looks at the same age.

The man on the left is six months younger than the man on the right, but was cast to play the man-on-the-right's father in a movie in which they both appeared. Now, you have to ask yourself, which man is actually older and in which sense? Well, chronologically they're nearly the same. Appearance wise Mr. Jeffiries on the left certainly looks older than Mr. Van Dyke on the right. As to how well they actually get along in life? Mr. Jeffiries died five years ago at a respectable 83 years of age, which isn't too bad, however, Mr. Van Dyke is still alive and performing. So maybe there is some correlation between 2 and 3 but it's not terribly strong based on this example.

Environment has a significant effect on #2 - excessive sun expose can greatly age a person's appearance while on the inside their body functions quite well. Conversely, someone can look young but have all sorts of internal problems associated with old age such as arthritis and osteoporosis at an earlier than expected age.

There is a tentative link between having children relatively late and living longer... but that's a chicken and egg argument. Do "late bloomers" have kids later because they physically mature later, or does putting off children result in slower aging? Does having kids earlier speed up aging? Or is it just statistical noise?

So, what do you mean by "aging"? External appearance? There the big indicators are 1) grey hair 2) losing hair and 3) wrinkles - all of which we have artificial means to mitigate and/or reduce. Current generations tend to have less of all of the above due to 1) hair dyes (not really new, but modern ones are less toxic and easier to use), 2) better hair replacement tech and/or more tolerance for baldness, to the point young men shave their heads for fashion, 3) less sun exposure/sun screen/skin treatments that actually help/plastic surgery. Thus, the average 50 year old today, especially in a profession like acting, tends to look younger than the average 50 year old in 1950. Better nutrition and fewer childhood diseases and adult infections might also help with that, leaving the body more resources for repair and less damage to deal with over time.

Internal age - how well the body functions inside - was first improved by better public health. Fewer sewage disease, vaccinations, and fewer childhood diseases mean less damage growing up and on an on-going basis. The does not increase maximum possible lifespan, but it does increase one's odds of reaching that instead of being cut down by disease earlier in life, and/or being permanently impaired by diseases. My dad remembers when kids got mumps, measles, german measles, chicken pox, most were exposed to polio, everyone knew at least one person dead or dying of TB, smallpox was still occurring in the US until he was 20, there were no antibiotics so an abscessed tooth or infected cut could be fatal and again, everyone knew someone who had died of something like that. In my day, kids weren't getting polio or smallpox (at least not in the US - it wasn't until I was in middle school it was eliminated in the wild) and we had antibiotics so fewer kids were going deaf from ear infections much less dying from an infected papercut - my generation had a lot less disease to deal with, a lot fewer fatalities, and lot fewer kids crippled from diseases. Now - most kids never experience the "childhood diseases" because we can vaccinate against them and even big scary things like some cancers have moved into the 90% curable range. Well, crap, folks these days have a LOT less damage done to them growing up and in early adulthood, at least in the first and second world nations, and even in the third world/most backward societies there are some things that are either eradicated (smallpox), on the way out (guinea worm) or easily treated even when you have little money that have significantly lessened the impact of disease.

The second way that internal age has been "slowed" is improved nutrition. Back in the days when scurvy was a concern people would get it not only on ships at sea but a lot of folks were showing symptoms by the end of winter due to lack of fresh food. Among other things, like wounds that took longer to heal and were more likely to get infected (that disease burden, again), you have people winding up with dental problems and lost teeth, which made eating fresh food harder, which reduced vitamin C intake, which made scurvy more likely... not to mention various deficiencies of other sorts which reduced the body's ability to repair itself and probably shortened lives. Consider also rickets, which used to be distressingly common in northern cities but has largely been eliminated thanks to dietary supplementation of vitamin D. Between better knowledge of what the body needs, supplementing common foods to ensure intakes adequate to prevent disease, and better transportation ensuring access to fresh, safe foods a greater part of or even the entire year nutritional deficiency disease have also become much less common. The last first world generation to face malnutrition in significant numbers was the WWII generation in Europe and Asia... which might be a factor in why Mr. Van Dyke, an American, looks younger than his English counterpart, Mr. Jeffiries, in our example above although likely not the only factor at work. American food "rationing" in WWII was laughably milder than what was imposed in Britain, which was less harsh than a couple of other places in Europe.

So, less disease and better nutrition are probably significant factors in today's "look younger than they are" folks.

Which leaves us with genetics. A good way to estimate your own maximum life span is to look at how long your ancestors lived. Chronic illnesses like heart disease and diabetes have genetic factors that can only be partially mitigated by environmental changes like diet. Some people are more likely to get cancer than others. Other folks have a really good roll of the genetic dice: no hereditary disposition to any of the above. They're the ones with the chance to live to be 100 or 120. That's luck, though, you don't get to pick your ancestors. Although if you know you have a genetic predisposition to a disease you might be able to mitigate it - I have a sister who found out early she was at extremely high risk of heart disease and changed her diet and exercise because of that knowledge. She has some serious heart disease now, but hasn't had a heart attack even if she's almost 60 whereas by her age mom had had 4 of them so compared to mom at the same age she's doing better and might live longer than mom. Mom herself, with bad genes for heart disease, lived to 77 despite a condition that, without modern medicine, almost always kills people in their mid-40's. Better medicine also meant that instead of people left completely disabled by a heart attack or her stroke she was able to recover significant function and get on with life. So... in quite a few instances people can do something even about the inevitable, preserving function instead of being a shriveled, bed-ridden invalid. This can give an appearance of greater youth via the way the act even if they look their age or older.

Genetics also affects appearance - again, using our two actors as an example, Mr. Jeffiries went bald and Mr Van Dyke did not by their mid-40's. (Mr. Van Dyke still sports a full head of hair, although it's probably a bit thinner overall than it used to be) That's your genes, not because you're old. Likewise, some people go grey a heck of a lot earlier or later than the average. Again, genes are the major factor there. Some people are also probably more prone to wrinkles than others. Those are largely cosmetic changes.

Finally - preventive medicine and routine maintenance. Something very simple - like fluoride treatments for teeth and dentistry that lets you hang onto your teeth past thirty keep people looking more youthful because that sunken-cheek no-tooth look screams OLD! People don't labor outside as much, so much less weathering occurs on their faces and hands than in the past. There are a bunch of smaller things like this that have a cumulative effect on both appearance and function which means someone 50 today is "more youthful" than someone who was 50 a century ago.

Bottom line, the maximum human lifespan hasn't changed a bit, but due to a number of factors more people are getting closer to reaching that number with better function due to less cumulative damage and better maintenance of the body.

TL:DR aging is a multi-factorial thing.

[TheFeniX]

To be fair, Wilford Brimley was a farmer, cowboy, and blacksmith who got into acting. John Stamos was a swimsuit model. Ones job was to bust his ass to make ends meet, the others was to bust his ass in the gym to look like an Adonis to make ends meet. While genetics may be a factor, it's almost a given than Stamos took better care of his body than a guy like Brimley did. Better diet for just one. Better control over physical activity such as working out vs busting ass in the sun for 8-12 hours a day. How much did Brimely smoke? Drink? He "Got fat" and went into blacksmithing. Did he just get fat, or did farming and rodeo riding fuck his knees, back, everything up so bad he cut his physical activity way back? Did his post-rodeo sedentary lifestyle make him "age" more? How much time did he spend in the sun and heat over the course of his life?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: John Stamos' job for the better part of his life has been to look awesome and he's probably kept that up for years. Brimley's "job" was anything but that.

Also, gotta put a plug in for "Last of the Dogmen" because Brimley narration makes anything awesome.

[General Zod]

I look at least ten years younger than I actually am and it causes no amount of aggravation sometimes when I'm dealing with guys younger than I am treating me like a teenager.

[TheFeniX]

I look at least ten years younger than I actually am and it causes no amount of aggravation sometimes when I'm dealing with guys younger than I am treating me like a teenager.

With my gotee, I could pass for 30+ at the age of 21. The only time I was "carded" was on my 21st birthday because the bartender did not believe I was that young. The funniest was when I went to an 18+ bar at 19 and was carded by a cop. He handed it back to me with a short glance and tried to hand me a wristband (signalling I was over 21).

Me: "I'm not 21."
Cop looks at ID again, at me, then at the ID again. Raises an eyebrow.
Cop: "You look 40."
Me: "Thanks?"
Looks at ID again.
Cop: "Is this ID fake?"
Me: "A fake ID so I can't drink?"
Gives it back and waves me in.

The three times I've shaved it off since I was 18, I got carded for just about anything. One was almost as hilarious as the cop, getting carded for spraypaint to use at a jobsite. My gotee was gone due to plant regulations concerning SCBAs.... of which we're not even certified to use. Probably doesn't help that I have no chin. I mean, I'm sure it's there, but you can't tell from looking.

A guy like Brimley could probably shave (literally) 20 years of his face by ditching the mustache. Also, just ditching the frazzled hair. My dad does the same thing every once in a while and could pass for 40 at 65.

[General Zod]

I'm just going to use an example and maybe humblebrag a bit. I don't look substantially different than I did in my first driver's license.

[Broomstick]

To be fair, Wilford Brimley was a farmer, cowboy, and blacksmith who got into acting. John Stamos was a swimsuit model.

Well, yeah, there you go - sun+weather exposure ages a person's skin more than working out in a gym out of the sun and in climate-controlled conditions. Farmers and cowboys always look aged. It's pretty common among sailors, too. That's an example of environmental effects.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Thanks for the post, Broomstick! That was very thorough and explains a lot.

The reason I bring all this up is because I'm near the beginning of a second act, so to speak, and am trying to figure out what I can and can't get away with. I made all the wrong choices in my 20's by becoming a business professional instead of taking a chance and trying to make it as a creative type, so it's a damn good thing that I'm aging well because I would be screwed trying to reinvent myself if I didn't. While I don't intend to completely give up on the business world, I'm trying to get into music and figure that the easiest way to do that is to get hired and trained as a DJ by a company that does weddings and events. Given that I'll be 33 in August and it takes a couple of years to learn a trade and get going, I'll be trying to break into the music scene (which is notoriously youth-obsessed) at 35, although I'll probably still be able to pass for 26 and could lie if I had to. I've also gotten to know myself quite a bit in the last few years, and have realized just how badly I had been selling myself short and what I could be capable of, but it's going to take time to develop so I won't hit my peak in perceived value (success, showcasable talent, achievements, etc.) until late 30's / early 40's and I'd like to be able to make an educated guess how younger people are going to react.

I look at least ten years younger than I actually am and it causes no amount of aggravation sometimes when I'm dealing with guys younger than I am treating me like a teenager.

I suspect you'll stop complaining about your youthful looks after 30, Zod.

[Broomstick]

Ah, so you're interested in continuing to look youthful, right?

Here are some things to consider:

1) Stay out of the sun. Not just sunscreen, stay out of the sun. Not in an obessive way, but don't bake yourself on the beach. If you are going to be in the sun for a prolonged period use sunscreen. Hats are your friend. Sunglasses are also your friend - not only do they help prevent cataracts, but you'll squint a lot less, too. That's important because constant squinting can contribute to crow's feet around the eyes, between the brows, and on the forehead.

2) Eat properly. Good nutrition will help your body repair damage that occurs from just being alive. Again, you don't have to be obsessive, the occasional junk food indulgence won't hurt you, but most of the time you need to eat healthy and drink healthy stuff like water.

3) Easy on the intoxicants. Know what heavy drug use does to your looks? Look at Keith Richards. Alright, that's probably not the only contributor, even in his case, but excessive consumption of alcohol and drugs will do bad things to your appearance. Nothing wrong with an occasional indulgence, but keep it moderate.

4) Don't suck. No, really - using straws or sucking on a cigarette contributes to lines/wrinkles around the mouth and lips.

5) Moisturize! This is usually marketed more at women but really, men's skin needs care, too. You can be damn sure those Hollywood guys with the great looks at 40, 50, 60, etc. are getting expert skin care. More products are being marketed towards men these days but honestly, you can use the stuff in the woman's aisle, too, although you might want to avoid the more girly scented stuff. Or just basic moisturizers in the lotion aisle, or even things marketed towards tradesmen. Especially if you're going to be out in the weather. Especially the delicate skin around the eyes. I could say something about exfoliation, too, except that's a bit oversold and if you're a man who uses a blade to shave you're already exfoliating, at least where the razor hits.

6) "Cosmeticeuticals". These are over the counter skin treatments that actually do have a real effect. It's better to think of them more as preventives than as actual cures for anything, and they aren't terribly cheap, but they do work when properly used. These are products, usually marketed towards women, with things like retinol and salicylic acid. They do reduce the appearance of fine wrinkles, and help prevent them from occurring or getting worse. On the downside, they can cause irritation (I had to stop using the L'Oreal brand because of that, I'm currently using CereVe's version with much better results) and they WILL make treated skin more sensitive to sunlight... which is why a lot of them also include sunscreen but if you use them you're well advised to avoid excess sunlight, use sunglasses, hats, etc.

Other than that - get at least moderate exercise to keep you strong and flexible. Don't dress like an old fart. Don't cut your hair like an old fart. Half of looking young is acting young. That doesn't mean dress like you're 15, either, but there are ways to dress/look/act youthful without also looking ridiculous.

[aerius]

Genetics helps, but how well you take care of yourself is makes a huge difference. Broadly speaking, I have 2 general groups of friends & other people I know; the ones who are actively involved in sports and the ones who aren't. The former group is obviously in pretty good physical shape as a whole and I think more importantly they're also pretty good with their nutrition & lifestyle since it has a large effect on how well they feel & perform. Not surprisingly, almost all of them look a lot younger than they actually are, anywhere from 25-45 and they all look the same to me. I'll be in a race with people who look like they're my age, and then I look at the age categories on the start list and find out that they're 10 years older than me. And they still kick my ass.

The non athlete group? Well, some look younger than they are but most look their age. It's actually a bit depressing when I see how much some of them have aged in the past 5-10 years. My boss is only a couple years older than me but it looks more like a couple decades. Then again, most of the folks in positions above me at work have the kind of jobs that drive people to drink heavily.

[General Zod]

quote]I suspect you'll stop complaining about your youthful looks after 30, Zod.

What if I told you I was 34?

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

What if I told you I was 34?

Then I sincerely hope you get super-AIDS and your dick falls off.

Ah, so you're interested in continuing to look youthful, right?

Here are some things to consider:

1) Stay out of the sun. Not just sunscreen, stay out of the sun. Not in an obessive way, but don't bake yourself on the beach. If you are going to be in the sun for a prolonged period use sunscreen. Hats are your friend. Sunglasses are also your friend - not only do they help prevent cataracts, but you'll squint a lot less, too. That's important because constant squinting can contribute to crow's feet around the eyes, between the brows, and on the forehead.

Aha! I knew being a video game-addicted vampire would pay off one of these days! Didn't know about the squinting thing, though, thanks!

2) Eat properly. Good nutrition will help your body repair damage that occurs from just being alive. Again, you don't have to be obsessive, the occasional junk food indulgence won't hurt you, but most of the time you need to eat healthy and drink healthy stuff like water.

3) Easy on the intoxicants. Know what heavy drug use does to your looks? Look at Keith Richards. Alright, that's probably not the only contributor, even in his case, but excessive consumption of alcohol and drugs will do bad things to your appearance. Nothing wrong with an occasional indulgence, but keep it moderate.

This is the toughest one, but I need to keep my alcoholism under control no matter what so that's just another reason to add to the pile.

4) Don't suck. No, really - using straws or sucking on a cigarette contributes to lines/wrinkles around the mouth and lips.

Interesting, never would have guessed that one.

5) Moisturize! This is usually marketed more at women but really, men's skin needs care, too. You can be damn sure those Hollywood guys with the great looks at 40, 50, 60, etc. are getting expert skin care. More products are being marketed towards men these days but honestly, you can use the stuff in the woman's aisle, too, although you might want to avoid the more girly scented stuff. Or just basic moisturizers in the lotion aisle, or even things marketed towards tradesmen. Especially if you're going to be out in the weather. Especially the delicate skin around the eyes. I could say something about exfoliation, too, except that's a bit oversold and if you're a man who uses a blade to shave you're already exfoliating, at least where the razor hits.

6) "Cosmeticeuticals". These are over the counter skin treatments that actually do have a real effect. It's better to think of them more as preventives than as actual cures for anything, and they aren't terribly cheap, but they do work when properly used. These are products, usually marketed towards women, with things like retinol and salicylic acid. They do reduce the appearance of fine wrinkles, and help prevent them from occurring or getting worse. On the downside, they can cause irritation (I had to stop using the L'Oreal brand because of that, I'm currently using CereVe's version with much better results) and they WILL make treated skin more sensitive to sunlight... which is why a lot of them also include sunscreen but if you use them you're well advised to avoid excess sunlight, use sunglasses, hats, etc.

My ex-GF is a makeup artist who dabbles in skincare, so I did learn a lot of this from her, but I haven't really put it into practice yet. Probably time to start doing that.

Other than that - get at least moderate exercise to keep you strong and flexible. Don't dress like an old fart. Don't cut your hair like an old fart. Half of looking young is acting young. That doesn't mean dress like you're 15, either, but there are ways to dress/look/act youthful without also looking ridiculous.

I'm working on this part. I've always preferred a conservative style with solid colors and no logos, but lately I've been trying to mix it up. As an INTP, approaching strangers and breaking the ice is my least favorite part of interacting with people, so the more interesting and welcoming my appearance, the better off I'll be.

These are good tips, thanks for sharing them!

[General Zod]

I always like to attribute my youthful appearance to copious amounts of vodka and sacrificial infants. Incidentally the only time I use any sort of cosmetics is when I'm working on a tv show. Oh, and my diet involves lots of pizza, red meat and noodles.

[Edi]

I was at my cousin's wedding a week ago and his cousin on his mother's side is a perfect example of what taking care of yourself can do. If you took a photo of him today and a photo of him 15 years ago and put them side by side, you'd probably be hard pressed to tell which one was then and which one is now. Guy is the same age as me and my cousin (it's funny how many of us were all born the same year, me, three of my cousins and this cousin of a cousin). Of course, it might have something to do with how he eats right and bikes to work every day regardless of season or weather, 14 km each way. In addition to IIRC doing things like running etc. We're all turning 40 next year. Fuck me, but that's a depressing thought.

Conversely, I look significantly older than I did 15 years ago, for several reasons. Some of it is genetics, but at least as much of it is lifestyle. I've gained weight, though that has fortunately settled (several years ago, in fact), which never helps. My hair has also thinned to the point that if I let it grow to any length, it looks like the base of a bird's nest and I'm balding anyway (runs in the family), so I might as well shave it off. Keeping my head shaved (as well as my beard, which is bristly and scraggly) shaves off something like ten years off my physical looks. That's one of those factors that I can't really do much about so I just have to roll with it.

I do have good genes for aging on my mother's side (that family lives typically to its 80s or even 90s) and my dad is also in excellent shape for his age (he's 71, if he cut his hair to a short buzzcut, he'd look almost 20 years younger), though he's the first man in his family tree to make it past 60. Well, so have both his brothers (younger brothers, who look older than him), so I have hope yet.

[Joun_Lord]

My mother recently said when talking to her neighbors they said I'd be such a good man when I grow up considering I visit my mother and am polite and shit (not online obviously). The kicker is I'll be 30 in a little over a month. They thought I was like 21, mid 20s at the most.

Of course I don't see it but I know psychologically I'm quite harsh on myself.

But still that just proves some of the points of this thread. I look 5 or 10 years younger then I am because I don't smoke or drink and don't get a ton of sun. Hell I'd probably look even younger if I lost weight. Fingers crossed that I might get off my lazy arse and actually work-out, hike, and swim a bit this summer.

Compare that to my dad who was considerably older looking at 30 and going very bald. My hair is thinning at the temples but I ain't got a bald spot or need a comb-over.....yet. He also had made 4 kids by my age, drank liquor, smoked cigarettes, and did roofing work that had him in the sun alot.

Human aging just seems all over the place really.

[Thanas]

I started wearing a beard to appear as old as I am because I found it annoying when students would use the familiar when addressing me.

[General Zod]

I tried growing a goatee for that for years and it did nothing. Now I can't stand having facial hair for more than a few days.

[salm]

I started wearing a beard to appear as old as I am because I found it annoying when students would use the familiar when addressing me.

Man, back when I was at the university everybody was a "du", even some professors.
Has this changed so radically? What has happened? Has this got something to do with turning unis into education factories with nonsense like bachelors and master degrees?
My gf who´s doing her phd went to a couple of first semester courses just out of interest last year. She also said that all the young students appeard increadibly serious and annoyingly over ambitious to her.

[Teebs]

I look much younger than I am - I'm in my late twenties but people generally think I'm in my late teens if they don't know me. Normally I find it funny - went on a date with a girl not too long ago who was complaining about how 'you young people always have so much energy' before I pointed out I was actually slightly older than her. It can be a little annoying professionally though. My headshot for articles makes me look about 15 and I've had one or two unfortunate incidents at work, like when an intern at a drinks event at my firm drinks had a bit much to drink and noisily berated me about how there was no way I was a qualified lawyer and I should stop trying to get one over her.

[Thanas]

I started wearing a beard to appear as old as I am because I found it annoying when students would use the familiar when addressing me.

Man, back when I was at the university everybody was a "du", even some professors.
Has this changed so radically? What has happened? Has this got something to do with turning unis into education factories with nonsense like bachelors and master degrees?
My gf who´s doing her phd went to a couple of first semester courses just out of interest last year. She also said that all the young students appeard increadibly serious and annoyingly over ambitious to her.

It has always been that way in law and Ancient History AFAIK.