Panther Tank found in German Cellar

[Zor]

Link to news article

Holy Shit.

Zor

[madd0ct0r]

The mayor was not prepared to pass judgement on the villa owner, who is said to be in his 70s.

"Some people like steam trains, others like tanks,“ he pointed out.

Good man!

[Mr Bean]

As a member of a now dead conspiracy of similar war memorabilia I sympathies with this guy. We like tanks, we all enjoy the momentary flight of fancy that comes with the idea of owning a sixty ton war machine with which to have fun in... even if it is nothing more than driving it around twice a year. Some of us however are much more willing to go to extreme lengths to acquire such items and then put them up in the Den because damn if that's not a conversation starter.

[Joun_Lord]

If the weapons were inoperable I don't think they should have taken the tank away from him. At the very least they need to compensate the poor guy for his relic that judging by pictures he took damn good care of.

I also hope the government isn't stupid enough to just destroy the tank.

[Thanas]

I also hope the government isn't stupid enough to just destroy the tank.

I can offhand think of at least four german museums who are now probably racing to confirm their interest in the things.


Though this takes the cake:

And for the mayor of Heikendorf, Alexander Orth, the find also came as no surprise.

"He was chugging around in that thing during the snow catastrophe in 1978,“ Orth told SZ.

The mayor was not prepared to pass judgement on the villa owner, who is said to be in his 70s.

"Who's that?"
"Oh that is just Heinrich with his Tank."
"...."
"Don't mind him, he is just clearing the snow".

**********************
Also, the guy had a full 88. Geez.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is related to Meister Röhrich.

[LaCroix]

As far as I know, if the weapons are properly demilitarized, it would be legal to own, but...

That would have needed to be done by the government, and he (and the government) should have documentation on that. Also, usually, such war machinery is considered national property, no matter who found it, so he would need to provide documentation of purchase from Germany, or else it is considered stolen.

tl;dr. He probably found it somewhere and hid it from the authorities, ignoring that it is state property. It will find it's way into a museum.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That's one big damn cellar.

Also, it's kinda strange that this comes up now, and not after that Snow Catastrophe in 78 when people, y'know, saw him driving the damn thing.

[LaCroix]

That's one big damn cellar.

Also, it's kinda strange that this comes up now, and not after that Snow Catastrophe in 78 when people, y'know, saw him driving the damn thing.

They had better things to do, and he was helping - after him, the road was probably clean enough for others to drive.

Also, rural Germans tend to assume that people doing huge, obvious things do have permission to do it.

[Thanas]

That's one big damn cellar.

Also, it's kinda strange that this comes up now, and not after that Snow Catastrophe in 78 when people, y'know, saw him driving the damn thing.

They had better things to do, and he was helping - after him, the road was probably clean enough for others to drive.

Also, rural Germans tend to assume that people doing huge, obvious things do have permission to do it.

He also apparently helped local farmers with plowing fields, though I question if the field would be any good after you drive a tank over it.

But c'mon - when you see your neighbour driving around with this:

You should get kinda curious.


And according to an expert, the thing wasn't demilitarized properly anyway.

[Thanas]

Also, the guy had a full V1. Holy crap.

[Lord Revan]

well if it was a sufficiently small/isolated place the word might have not travelled that far in the late 70s (and that's assuming it was in the West Germany).

[Purple]

I wonder who reported him anyway. I mean, I know I wouldn't report him unless he fired on my car or something.

[Joun_Lord]

I wonder who reported him anyway. I mean, I know I wouldn't report him unless he fired on my car or something.

The article mentions they were searching dudes place for stolen Nazi art, they must have found the tank and other things.

I do wonder what led to them searching the guys place for stolen art in the first place. Its unlikely the Germans would just search random villas for stolen Nazi stuff so someone might have given them a tip about something there, though the article doesn't mention them finding anything in the first search.

[Mr Bean]

Also, the guy had a full 88. Geez.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is related to Meister Röhrich.

Meh, we had a 88, Flakvierling, a Bofors and fourteen tanks not to mention associated staff cars and equipment and that was just two fellows in rural Indiana.

[SpottedKitty]

Interesting; by coincidence, tonight I've just watched the "Nazi Megastructures" episode on German tanks. All the way from the Panzer I to the Maus with a brief diversion into why the Landkreuzer was such an unworkable idea.

[Sea Skimmer]

He also apparently helped local farmers with plowing fields, though I question if the field would be any good after you drive a tank over it.

That's where the very smooth ground pressure curve produced by the interwoven road wheels would work out awesome. Just hope an inner one doesn't break.

[Grumman]

Also, usually, such war machinery is considered national property, no matter who found it, so he would need to provide documentation of purchase from Germany, or else it is considered stolen.

tl;dr. He probably found it somewhere and hid it from the authorities, ignoring that it is state property. It will find it's way into a museum.

The German government has no legitimate claim to it, as far as I can see. It was the property of Nazi Germany, and post-war Germany would not have been permitted to inherit it from their predecessors even if it had not been stolen. If anyone has a claim to it, it would be someone like the French or American government.

[LaCroix]

Also, usually, such war machinery is considered national property, no matter who found it, so he would need to provide documentation of purchase from Germany, or else it is considered stolen.

tl;dr. He probably found it somewhere and hid it from the authorities, ignoring that it is state property. It will find it's way into a museum.

The German government has no legitimate claim to it, as far as I can see. It was the property of Nazi Germany, and post-war Germany would not have been permitted to inherit it from their predecessors even if it had not been stolen. If anyone has a claim to it, it would be someone like the French or American government.

Nope.

Germany was the legal successor of Nazi Germany (that's why you could demand war concessions and reperations from them) - thus everything Nazi Germany owned was now property of the German Republic, unless one of the Allied Nations had claimed it as spoils of war.

Also, it is illegal for a citizen to posess war machinery that hasn't been officially demilitarized - thus, the man cannot claim usucapion, as the prerequesite of him being legally able to hold posession of that item is missing. Thus, he can't get legal ownership that way.

[AMX]

*googles*
Bit more detail there:
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/weltspiegel/ ... 01682.html
And there:
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/weltkrie ... 47491.html
-the original search was prompted by a statue in his garden - according to his lawyer, it's just a copy, not the missing original.
-he says the tank was imported from the UK
-there's supposed to be a demilling certificate from 2005