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It seems as if recently there has been a sharp increase in the number of panhandlers in my locale. Especially at a specific corner(rte 50 and Waples mIll in Fairfax County for those in the DC Area who are curious), where I have literally seen what I assume to be a shift change with a minivan picking one guy up and dropping a gal off.

Does anyone here give panhandlers money? Why would there be a sudden jump in a very wealthy area, is it as simple as the upper-middle class giving more money out? What are your panhandling experiences?

I'm just venting here.

I buy the big issue. I do not give money to beggars, but I did spend a week or so on the streets selling wooden roses as part of a hair brained student scheme. I made my money back, got stuck with 270 wooden roses, but picked up an incredible respect for the people who can stand there, in all weathers, selling to an indifferent and hostile public.

Why the Big Issue? Working not begging - the vendors buy the magazine and sell it for a profit at a specified location. That profit pays for their housing, their drugs, new socks and, importantly, for expanding the number of magazines you can buy next week. The UK is currently £2:50 per magazine, sold to vendors at £1:50 each. Profits from the magazine support the setting up of street papers on similar models around the world, supports the Big Issue support system - buying badges, coats for the vendors, insurance, the loan scheme they operate to help people set up in a house once they finally get accomadation and goes into the Big Issue Foundation that funds other specific projects - such as the one that collects and cleans old suits in London, and provides them + tie and shirt to anyone going for a job interview.

The actual writing in the big issue is pretty damn sharp and thoughtful. They also tend to pickup a lot of exclusive interviews (it's only after reading it weekly for a few years I started to realise how much the other newspapers copy from it.). In the UK, Lord Bird has attracted a lot of shit for two things: he will allow vendors to continue drinking/using drugs and he will allow Romanians on limited visas to sell the magazine to meet their visa requirement for 16 hours employment a week.

In both cases he argues this allows people who want to integrate a route to, it allows people who don't want to integrate yet an honest living, and it undercuts organised begging and small crime gangs by providing a more reliable income stream with extra benefits, and diverting money given to beggars into the system instead.

Lonestar wrote:Does anyone here give panhandlers money?

I don't. I can barely afford to buy drugs for myself, let alone other people.

Lonestar wrote:Why would there be a sudden jump in a very wealthy area, is it as simple as the upper-middle class giving more money out?

I'd say that it sounds like somebody is organizing them and transporting them there. Most panhandlers stick around wherever they sleep because they're on foot, but would like to work a more target-rich environment if it became convenient. I let a couple of friends stay with me for ten bucks/day each while they got back on their feet one time and did the same thing by driving them down to the DU campus so they could hit up rich college kids for real money instead of trying to trawl Colfax avenue for pocket change. I also drove them to job interviews, and let one of them use my bank account to cash a personal check for $50 one time, but I'm not entirely sure that she got that just by asking for it.

Lonestar wrote:What are your panhandling experiences?

On the giving end, I provide exactly one thing to panhandlers who I don't know: Advice. Don't just shove your hand in my face, do something entertaining. Entertainers get paid in this country, sometimes quite a lot. If you learn how to sing or juggle or something, you've just given yourself a promotion from beggar to busker. It's not like you don't have time on your hands or like it has a prohibitive monetary cost of entry. There's a dude who hangs out on Colfax who just does push-ups. He'll bet drunk young guys that he can do more than they can. Does he win? Fuck yeah, he does; he does nothing but work out in ways you can do for free all day and is built out of as much solid muscle as he can obtain enough protein to maintain. A kid downtown plays drums on a couple of buckets that he probably dug out of the trash. This one model of hyper-specialization sings exactly one song all day long ("Sitting on the Dock of the Bay" if you're wondering), including at the karaoke bar on 8th and Lincoln when he goes there to drink, but he does it well.

My Favorite Homeless Guy (capitalized because that's what I call him in the conversation threads) tells jokes, for another example. Mostly corny Dad jokes that are only funny because they're terrible (eg: "Why did the scarecrow win an award! Because he was out standing in his field!"), but it's still better than just saying, "Gimmie." I still don't give him money, but I don't smoke tobacco and he does so any time I find cigarettes in my taxi they're all his the next time I see him. One time I found him an entire unopened pack still in the cellophane and he was so happy he almost cried.

Or if you're really, really good at begging, go professional. Back when I was canvassing for various conservation groups, I took home as much as 30% right off the top at one place, and 50% of everything I collected after a certain minimum at another, and had fun doing it. One guy gave me $60 for doing a tequila shot with him on the clock and wrote it off as a business expense, and he didn't even live in the neighborhood I was canvassing, he was driving to a construction job and just stopped in the middle of the street to hear my pitch. We'd hire anybody who knew how to and could stay sober enough to speak the English language, and generally looked and smelled like we were living on the street as much as anybody who really is, after walking around all day.

On the receiving end, I accidentally panhandled once back in college. I was visiting some friends in NYC and fell asleep in Penn Station while I was waiting for them to pick me up (I forget why it took so long; there was some kind of crisis). When I woke up a couple hours later, the empty soda cup in my hand had $0.73 in it.

I seem to run into pushy bums more than I'd care for. If someone tells you no take a fucking hint and move on. I don't want to hear their sob story and it's not going to make me change my mind. Neither is threatening me.

I met a cool bum yesterday. His name is Glenn. He was more of a scavenger than a beggar, picking trash by my cab. Had a shopping cart full of shit and didn't even try to ask me for money. Claimed that he's trying to get back to normal. I like to think that I did him some good by just talking to him, telling him that I hope he stays positive, shaking his hand, and treating him like anybody else.

I've seen organized panhandling before, when my wife and I were in Miami. There was this group of people hanging out together at this intersection (near my hotel so I was passing in and out of there a few times), kept seeing them going back and forth between different sides of the intersection; I cottoned on when I saw them together counting their money.

As for how I treat panhandlers... my wife is a soft touch so if we see one while we're out together it's all 'honey do you have any bills in your wallet'. If it's just me, generally I try to ignore them or give them the 'no, sorry'... we really don't make enough money.

I did see one a few weeks ago that had the right idea. He set up outside an IHOP and had a small pile of doggy-bag containers... he might not have made much money but he was definitely eating.

Personally, I try and at least slip them a pound coin. For me it's the price of a cup of coffee, for them it might be the difference between eating and not eating today.

Zaune wrote:Personally, I try and at least slip them a pound coin. For me it's the price of a cup of coffee, for them it might be the difference between eating and not eating today.

I have so many bums hassle me in a given day that if I gave them all a buck I'd be in the same situation they are.

I rarely see that many around here, so I guess I'm lucky.

I never give any money. I am always puzzled why they are there in the first place when they could potentially get a job if they really wanted to. Even a fast food place could net more income than begging for quarters at the corner of Costco. Now I've heard explanations that some of them have mental illnesses that mean they are simply incapable of performing in a commercial environment, and that makes sense...but I have no idea if that covers the majority of them or not. If I knew it was impossible for them to hold down a regular job, I might be a bit more giving. But some of them just seem too fit and sharp that it just screams laziness to me.

Edit - don't interpret my attitude as hostility towards them, I am actually indifferent. I really don't care either way and I'm not going to scream "Just get a job, you bum" if they sincerely can't get one. But in some cases it just seems that being a panhandler is their career they choose, not one that is forced upon them.

I don't know about the US, but around here there's not many employers willing to take on someone who doesn't have a postal address and the ability to shower every day. You might be able to pick up some grey-economy day labour but nothing steady or well-paid enough to get you off the streets.

Theres been an interesting thing locally where some beggers were found to actually have secure accommodation and income - but were still out on the street because they were bored.

Exeter and Torbay seem to have had significant increases in their levels of begging/homelessness. I used to see perhaps 1 or 2 around, but there are now a dozen or more on Exeter high street, and the streets around there, similar numbers in Torbay. Not large numbers for sure, but very noticeable. I follow the advice of several homelessness charities - dont provide money, but offer them a meal deal from Tesco if you are able to.

There's also a BI seller every 100 meters as well, which cant make much economic sense

Borgholio wrote:I never give any money. I am always puzzled why they are there in the first place when they could potentially get a job if they really wanted to. Even a fast food place could net more income than begging for quarters at the corner of Costco. Now I've heard explanations that some of them have mental illnesses that mean they are simply incapable of performing in a commercial environment, and that makes sense...but I have no idea if that covers the majority of them or not. If I knew it was impossible for them to hold down a regular job, I might be a bit more giving. But some of them just seem too fit and sharp that it just screams laziness to me.

Edit - don't interpret my attitude as hostility towards them, I am actually indifferent. I really don't care either way and I'm not going to scream "Just get a job, you bum" if they sincerely can't get one. But in some cases it just seems that being a panhandler is their career they choose, not one that is forced upon them.

Pretend you're an employer: Someone comes in to apply for a job, and their application lists them as having no address. They may even lack ID, meaning they cannot prove citizenship/right to work. They probably don't even have reliable transportation. Would you hire them? You can't be sure that they'll regularly shower. You don't have anywhere to mail a paycheck. Likely no bank account if you do direct deposit only.

Homelessness is an impediment to even getting a job, and not having a job is an impediment to having a place to live if there aren't social programs to substantially assist with housing.

Napoleon the Clown wrote:

Borgholio wrote: Edit - don't interpret my attitude as hostility towards them, I am actually indifferent. I really don't care either way and I'm not going to scream "Just get a job, you bum" if they sincerely can't get one. But in some cases it just seems that being a panhandler is their career they choose, not one that is forced upon them.

Pretend you're an employer: Someone comes in to apply for a job, and their application lists them as having no address. They may even lack ID, meaning they cannot prove citizenship/right to work. They probably don't even have reliable transportation. Would you hire them? You can't be sure that they'll regularly shower. You don't have anywhere to mail a paycheck. Likely no bank account if you do direct deposit only.

Homelessness is an impediment to even getting a job, and not having a job is an impediment to having a place to live if there aren't social programs to substantially assist with housing.

Circles back to something I've seen before, and I'm starting to think is on point... subsidizing free/cheap housing for the homeless would be far cheaper in the long run than the expenses incurred upon the state by permitting them to remain homeless.

The housing gives them a sense of stability, allows them a safe place to sleep at night, and in some cases (not all, but at least some) provides bath facilities. Frequently whatever program is providing the housing will work with residents to help them get around the whole 'no fixed address' issue with a job search. It also helps them stay healthier, which obviates the obvious hazard of exposure from living on the streets, reduces their risk for illness, and might even provide two squares a day which is a mighty deal better than none... so the state doesn't end up footing the bill from hospitals for taking care of sick homeless.

There's actually been quite a few studies and experiments that prove that case. Salt Lake City just gave housing to a number of chronically homeless people and the state actually wound up saving money.

Elheru Aran wrote:Circles back to something I've seen before, and I'm starting to think is on point... subsidizing free/cheap housing for the homeless would be far cheaper in the long run than the expenses incurred upon the state by permitting them to remain homeless.

The housing gives them a sense of stability, allows them a safe place to sleep at night, and in some cases (not all, but at least some) provides bath facilities. Frequently whatever program is providing the housing will work with residents to help them get around the whole 'no fixed address' issue with a job search. It also helps them stay healthier, which obviates the obvious hazard of exposure from living on the streets, reduces their risk for illness, and might even provide two squares a day which is a mighty deal better than none... so the state doesn't end up footing the bill from hospitals for taking care of sick homeless.

That is a good idea, one plenty of people have said should be happening especially after the housing market crashed leaving only the god's know how many homes empty and owned by the bank. Get someone in a house at the very least allows them to feel better about themselves, to have a stable place to leave their things without being incredibly paranoid, and maybe put them on the road to a new better life.

However there are some problems with that even leaving aside the cost and the pushback from people who don't want homeless people in their neighborhoods for reasons good or bad. Not all homeless people are just people down on their luck, looking for a job and a home. Some are mentally ill, some are horribly addicted to whatever bullshit they can shoot up or snort or smoke. Giving them a house gives them some place to destroy, some place to turn into a drug den. You can see why someone might not want homeless people to move in when their neighborhood can wind up crime and drug ridden, shady characters going around bumming for money at best but possibly breaking into houses and mugging people. Can't let your kids out, property values take a dive, just all kinds of less then ideal things happen.

This is of course yet another symptom of the failure of America's totally not failed and thats totally sarcasm War on Drugs and gaps in its health care system especially mental health that you could drive an aircraft carrier or a Hummer through with room to spare. These people should not be on the streets in the first place, should be in drug rehab programs or mental health facilities getting the help they need, not sucking dicks under bridges or screaming at random passerbys.

Anyone on topic, I do try to give occasionally with some caveats. I was done on my luck before, I was homeless, so I know what its like to need some money. My caveats are that I won't give money to drunkey ass fucks and I ain't going to hurt myself to help them.

I hate drunks, I hate alcohol. Perhaps its because I am a automaton that does not compute the pleasure you strange humans derive from your vices and sandwich condiments, I utterly abhor shit like drinking alcohol and smoking of any kind. It disgusting. I understand the need to drink when you are homeless, need something to get you through the day. I understand that. I just don't agree with it.

Some some guy comes up to me near a liquor store bumming for change, no. If they do what I "love" and say "I'm not going lie, I'm just going to by liquor". I appreciate their honesty but not what they are doing and certainly don't want them doing it on my money.

Someone who looks like they need money to eat I don't have a problem with giving some money if I have it to give. Though thats my other caveat, I may not have money to give. I ain't exactly rich and try to budget my limited money as much as possible so I rarely carry "extra" money. Any money in my wallet is usually the amount I need for bus fare, gas money, for whatever I'm going after to buy. I need to spend my money smart if I don't want to come short towards the next pay day. Giving money to a bunch of random people is certainly going to bite me in the ass if I do it too often.

But still, I try to help. I had some help when I was down so I think its my duty to pass it forward where I can. At the very least try to talk to them despite my crippling social anxiety. Something to show some support.

I know I ain't the nicest person and am probably an unreasonable dick when it comes to drunkies but for people who need help I try to help atleast a little.

Right now I work at KFC and if I'm closing I get to take home a few boxes of chicken for me to eat later. Well the other day there was a couple hanging out around the bus stop and trying to get someone to pay for a bus fare for them. I didn't have any change so I opened my box of the all wings(it was all that was left that night) and offered them some to eat and the first thing they tried to do was take all of it right there. I did object letting them take a couple of them each.

Sometimes I think there are those who just want to get as much out of people as they can get away with. If I see the pair again I doubt I'll be offering them anything.

Joun_Lord wrote: That is a good idea, one plenty of people have said should be happening especially after the housing market crashed leaving only the god's know how many homes empty and owned by the bank. Get someone in a house at the very least allows them to feel better about themselves, to have a stable place to leave their things without being incredibly paranoid, and maybe put them on the road to a new better life.

However there are some problems with that even leaving aside the cost and the pushback from people who don't want homeless people in their neighborhoods for reasons good or bad. Not all homeless people are just people down on their luck, looking for a job and a home. Some are mentally ill, some are horribly addicted to whatever bullshit they can shoot up or snort or smoke. Giving them a house gives them some place to destroy, some place to turn into a drug den. You can see why someone might not want homeless people to move in when their neighborhood can wind up crime and drug ridden, shady characters going around bumming for money at best but possibly breaking into houses and mugging people. Can't let your kids out, property values take a dive, just all kinds of less then ideal things happen.

This is of course yet another symptom of the failure of America's totally not failed and thats totally sarcasm War on Drugs and gaps in its health care system especially mental health that you could drive an aircraft carrier or a Hummer through with room to spare. These people should not be on the streets in the first place, should be in drug rehab programs or mental health facilities getting the help they need, not sucking dicks under bridges or screaming at random passerbys.

This is kind of a catch 22. Nobody wants homeless people on the street but nobody's willing to actually give them somewhere to live so they stay off of it. Give them apartments with staff on hand to help them if they want to seek it out but don't force them to go into programs as a requirement and don't babysit them. They don't have to be in the choicest parts of town as long as they're somewhere with accessible transportation.

General Zod wrote:

Joun_Lord wrote: That is a good idea, one plenty of people have said should be happening especially after the housing market crashed leaving only the god's know how many homes empty and owned by the bank. Get someone in a house at the very least allows them to feel better about themselves, to have a stable place to leave their things without being incredibly paranoid, and maybe put them on the road to a new better life.

However there are some problems with that even leaving aside the cost and the pushback from people who don't want homeless people in their neighborhoods for reasons good or bad. Not all homeless people are just people down on their luck, looking for a job and a home. Some are mentally ill, some are horribly addicted to whatever bullshit they can shoot up or snort or smoke. Giving them a house gives them some place to destroy, some place to turn into a drug den. You can see why someone might not want homeless people to move in when their neighborhood can wind up crime and drug ridden, shady characters going around bumming for money at best but possibly breaking into houses and mugging people. Can't let your kids out, property values take a dive, just all kinds of less then ideal things happen.

This is of course yet another symptom of the failure of America's totally not failed and thats totally sarcasm War on Drugs and gaps in its health care system especially mental health that you could drive an aircraft carrier or a Hummer through with room to spare. These people should not be on the streets in the first place, should be in drug rehab programs or mental health facilities getting the help they need, not sucking dicks under bridges or screaming at random passerbys.

This is kind of a catch 22. Nobody wants homeless people on the street but nobody's willing to actually give them somewhere to live so they stay off of it. Give them apartments with staff on hand to help them if they want to seek it out but don't force them to go into programs as a requirement and don't babysit them. They don't have to be in the choicest parts of town as long as they're somewhere with accessible transportation.

One way (I want to say this is how it was done in Utah, I can't say for sure) is to buy up dead/abandoned motels, spend a bit of money to clean them up and then use them for housing. This works as often they're in areas of town that nobody really wants to invest in anyway, so the government might as well use the existing buildings there, they have plumbing to each room, and if people are willing to room together you can fill it right up with minimal issues.

As for the rest of it, well...

Last time I didn't ignore a panhandler I was waiting at a bus stop and the individual was asking around for bus fare. I tossed the man a token and got sworn at for being 'cheep'. The same guy would spit at me even years later.

My panhandling experiences are mostly getting calls for service about them being on private property and then having to convince them to leave. Most usually go without issue, they know the game. They'll see my cruiser pull up and park, they'll quickly snatch up their stuff and go onto the sidewalk and down the street. When they don't wanna go, that's when it get's more interesting. Lot of verbal judo and threats to hook them for trespassing. Usually works.

I'm starting to sour on panhandlers to an extent, but I outright waste enough money on some things in my life that I can't reasonably begrudge the occasional five dollar bill.

The last time someone went 'beggar' on me was a woman with several children with her in front of a grocery store. I passed her on the way in, and decided to make my donation in the form of dried fruit on the way out.

Borgholio wrote:I never give any money. I am always puzzled why they are there in the first place when they could potentially get a job if they really wanted to. Even a fast food place could net more income than begging for quarters at the corner of Costco. Now I've heard explanations that some of them have mental illnesses that mean they are simply incapable of performing in a commercial environment, and that makes sense...but I have no idea if that covers the majority of them or not. If I knew it was impossible for them to hold down a regular job, I might be a bit more giving. But some of them just seem too fit and sharp that it just screams laziness to me.

I've known people who had chronic trouble finding work for a year or more at a time, despite sincerely wanting to, having a steady place of residence, getting perfectly good sleep and nutrition, having good hygiene, loved ones willing to supply just about any normal element of a middle class life style, and having a post-graduate degree.

Some people just have absolutely shitty luck in job searches, or interview poorly, or who even knows what.

Edit - don't interpret my attitude as hostility towards them, I am actually indifferent. I really don't care either way and I'm not going to scream "Just get a job, you bum" if they sincerely can't get one. But in some cases it just seems that being a panhandler is their career they choose, not one that is forced upon them.

If they can panhandle and survive on that, while spending literally all their time trying to find jobs is unreliable as a way of bringing in basic income... it's a problem. But they'd be stupid not to panhandle at that point.

Zaune wrote:I don't know about the US, but around here there's not many employers willing to take on someone who doesn't have a postal address and the ability to shower every day. You might be able to pick up some grey-economy day labour but nothing steady or well-paid enough to get you off the streets.

It's the same way here in the US. For additional fun, if you're poor and homeless long enough, you will one day be arrested for it and be stuck with a record, making you doubly screwed. Because if you'd just bootstrap yourself hard enough and apply yourself, you'd be fine, you lazy bum.

A polite "No sir" unless the person happens to be particularly nice or does some kind of performance. My figuring is that I can't help them. If they make some kind of a social connection, the calculation goes from pure utilitarianism to just wanting to improve their mood for however long. If they perform, it becomes a transaction, where I'm paying them for the performance.

If they're out on the street with a sign, which is common in Philly in the summer, there isn't anything I can do that will help them. Especially here, they're typically heroin addicts begging for a fix. Giving them money just lets them buy their fix, potentially killing them. Giving them food just reduces the amount of money they have to spend on incidentals. Giving them advice is just condescending bullshit.

Best to acknowledge their presence, decline to give them anything, and move on. I never say sorry, because I'm not sorry I didn't pick money out of my pocket to buy heroin for a stranger. Which is not to say I judge them morally. It's just that heroin is more dangerous than heroin withdrawal until we develop a sensible drug policy. If it was legal and I carried it, I'd probably hand out suboxone. That is something that might help them.

I don't usually back down from a confrontation, but some of the posts in this thread are making me see red in an unproductive way.