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Is it true it can slide Wing Commander style, fire stuff sideways at an enemy, turn back forward and continue on?

Not quite. The thing is extremely maneuverable and stealthy and is supposed to be able to engage the enemy before they know that it is there.

Shinova wrote:Is it true it can slide Wing Commander style, fire stuff sideways at an enemy, turn back forward and continue on?

Huge exaggeration. It has thrust-vectoring engines which confer extra maneuverability, but hardly on that level, that's just ridiculous.

It's a stealthy F-15. Not that there's anything wrong with that

When are the F-22's supposed to go into service?

Vympel wrote:
It's a stealthy F-15. Not that there's anything wrong with that

That's a good description.

Strafe wrote:When are the F-22's supposed to go into service?

2005. The first birds have been delivered, but they are not 'in service' so to speak.

everyhing is fire and forget too, IIRC so it can engage multiple bandits at once.

It still uses Amraams for medium range firepower, but it's onboard computer's got a helluva lot of options for their deployment. For example, the pilot can either choose to guide his missiles using his onboard radar, the AWACS returns, his wingmen's radar, etc - so, theoretically, the F22 taking the shot doesn't need to illuminate the target himself.

Plus there are nifty other things, like datalinks...360 degree view of the battlefield, courtesy of AWACs downlink - all the pilot needs to do is take one look at the proper display to see what's going around him. It can also receive data from other F22s, etc.

At least that's what I heard lately

The 2D thrust vectoring can allow it to 'slide' forward, so to speak. It can be travelling foward with an angle of attack that is pointing above the horizon, yet not gaining altitude. Of course, this can be done in many planes by putting it into a stall and using the thrust to hold you up, but you risk putting the aircraft into a spin and FUBARing things quickly.

The thrust vectoring is, as stated, 2-D, meaning the nozzles are only going up or down together. There will be an upgrade when both nozzles can swing independently, but really thrust vectoring is only really useful in getting off the ground quickly and aiding some manoeuvres.

It wastes far too much energy in dogfights and is practically useless in BVR combat anyway.

Admiral Valdemar wrote: It wastes far too much energy in dogfights and is practically useless in BVR combat anyway.

And it is looking more and more that the majority of air combat is going to be BVR or over the horizon engagements.

Col. Crackpot wrote:everyhing is fire and forget too, IIRC so it can engage multiple bandits at once.

Only within a certain range. The idea that AMRAAM is a fire-and-forget missile is a falsehood- it's radar seeker is far too small for it to be able to home in on its target unassisted at it's maximum range. Under 20km, sure it's fire and forget, anything higher than that, the Raptor must keep the target locked.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:The thrust vectoring is, as stated, 2-D, meaning the nozzles are only going up or down together. There will be an upgrade when both nozzles can swing independently, but really thrust vectoring is only really useful in getting off the ground quickly and aiding some manoeuvres.

It wastes far too much energy in dogfights and is practically useless in BVR combat anyway.

Actually, thrust vectoring of this form lets you conserve energy.

Vympel wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:everyhing is fire and forget too, IIRC so it can engage multiple bandits at once.

Only within a certain range. The idea that AMRAAM is a fire-and-forget missile is a falsehood- it's radar seeker is far too small for it to be able to home in on its target unassisted at it's maximum range. Under 20km, sure it's fire and forget, anything higher than that, the Raptor must keep the target locked.

Well, its possibul to shoot it further and not maintain a lock for updates, but the INS is unlikely to get it close enough to aquire the target, unless your shooting down a drone or an airliner or somthing else that lumbers along without ESM.

Shinova wrote:Is it true it can slide Wing Commander style, fire stuff sideways at an enemy, turn back forward and continue on?

Oddly enough, a plane which could do that was:

http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/aircraft/Fo ... eRhone.JPG

WWI German ace Werner Voss was known to apply full rudder to kick his triplane into a skid, shoot at an enemy while his plane was moving sideways, and apply opposite rudder to return to normal, forward flight before his plane went into a spin.

Isn't that the way it always works? Just when you think you've come up with something really novel, you find out somebody else got there first.



Watch the formatting, okay? ~ Stormbringer

I drool at the though of flying an F-22.
Wish I'd stayed in the Air Force longer.

Captain tycho wrote:I drool at the though of flying an F-22.
Wish I'd stayed in the Air Force longer.

There are always flight sims

Though I guess there are few things that can compare to cruising around at supersonic speeds, playing with guns and missiles and getting PAID to do this...

PeZook wrote:

Captain tycho wrote:I drool at the though of flying an F-22.
Wish I'd stayed in the Air Force longer.

There are always flight sims

Though I guess there are few things that can compare to cruising around at supersonic speeds, playing with guns and missiles and getting PAID to do this...

Yeah, you can't imagine.

PS, Join the Air Force, and you'll get to fly one of those gems.

Captain tycho wrote:
Yeah, you can't imagine.

PS, Join the Air Force, and you'll get to fly one of those gems.

Yeah, I'd get to fly a Mig-29 if I'm lucky. Or MAYBE an F-16

Besides, they only take people with 20/20 eyesight. I actually thought about entering a flight school for helicopter pilots, but then found out they require a perfect physical record.

So I guess no jetfighters for me...

There are still civilian prop planes, though, but you don't get guns, bombs and missiles in the package

PeZook wrote:

Captain tycho wrote:
Yeah, you can't imagine.

PS, Join the Air Force, and you'll get to fly one of those gems.

Yeah, I'd get to fly a Mig-29 if I'm lucky. Or MAYBE an F-16

Besides, they only take people with 20/20 eyesight. I actually thought about entering a flight school for helicopter pilots, but then found out they require a perfect physical record.

So I guess no jetfighters for me...

There are still civilian prop planes, though, but you don't get guns, bombs and missiles in the package

They do allow laser surgery, if policy hasn't changed since I was in.

Captain tycho wrote:They do allow laser surgery, if policy hasn't changed since I was in.

I haven't thought of that, but even if they do, there are no clinics that perform this kind of surgery over here.

Plus, it's expensive from what I've heard.

PeZook wrote:

Captain tycho wrote:They do allow laser surgery, if policy hasn't changed since I was in.

I haven't thought of that, but even if they do, there are no clinics that perform this kind of surgery over here.

Plus, it's expensive from what I've heard.

It's only 600-800 bucks here. Not very expensive, considering 5 years ago it was up to 3k.
Where are you right now, btw?

Captain tycho wrote:

PeZook wrote:

Captain tycho wrote:They do allow laser surgery, if policy hasn't changed since I was in.

I haven't thought of that, but even if they do, there are no clinics that perform this kind of surgery over here.

Plus, it's expensive from what I've heard.

It's only 600-800 bucks here. Not very expensive, considering 5 years ago it was up to 3k.
Where are you right now, btw?

Gdansk, Poland.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Admiral Valdemar wrote:The thrust vectoring is, as stated, 2-D, meaning the nozzles are only going up or down together. There will be an upgrade when both nozzles can swing independently, but really thrust vectoring is only really useful in getting off the ground quickly and aiding some manoeuvres.

It wastes far too much energy in dogfights and is practically useless in BVR combat anyway.

Actually, thrust vectoring of this form lets you conserve energy.

That may be so, but any amount of fancy manoeuvres in a dogfight with any type of decent pilot will get you killed. You'd be amazed how many people talk to me and say "Wow, the Russian planes that can do the Cobra will 0wn any Western plane!" Yeah, is that before or after the ASRAAM shows them true agility?

Being a fighter pilot is getting more boring anyway, we're getting into an age of going up in the sky, seeing a blob on the RADAR and pushing a button then confirming a kill and landing. WWI and WWII had true knife fights, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS!

Admiral Valdemar wrote: Being a fighter pilot is getting more boring anyway, we're getting into an age of going up in the sky, seeing a blob on the RADAR and pushing a button then confirming a kill and landing. WWI and WWII had true knife fights, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS!

Tell that to the US Navy and US Air Force Pilots who tangled with NVAF
MiGs