What happened to "mockery of stupid people"?

[Visionist]

Now it's "mockery of stupid ideas"? What the hell?

[AniThyng]

It's never been "mockery of stupid people"! Mandela effect bro. You've entered a parallel universe, obviously.


Seriously though, it was changed just recently. https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic ... 8&t=167197

So cool off, relax. This place is supposed to be a fun outlet for people, not a tiresome chore, and the moderators would appreciate not having to trundle a bucket and broom through every thread. To that end, with Mike's blessing, we are slightly altering the motto to: 'Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid ideas'.

Edited to add smiley.

[Zixinus]

Well, the board did change over the years. There are far, far less trolls and stupid people arguing stupid things. The board has become somewhat more insular over the years.

[TheFeniX]

I'm not complaining much. Many arguments outside a pure "numbers game" tended to devolve into "who could insult the most" contests and it could be fun for a bit, then just got old. In the past few years the most you really have to deal with is people just being passive-aggressive. I had ridiculously tough skin considering how long and where I had been on them Internets and even I, multiple times, would just look at my monitor and say shit like "damn son, calm the fuck down, it's just Star Wars." And these weren't even concerning the "hard numbers" shit as that debate had already been decided (by the sane) before this board was even created.

Fuck man, people would go for broke aruging DnD mechanics and die-rolls. I'm talking "your mother sucks cock in Hell for you thinking D6 is superior to D20" type shit.

Wong also quit posting, which that guy could dial it up to 11 in a nano-second. Not to say it wasn't (mostly) appropriate considering some of the bullshit I recall, but everyone seemed to follow "dad's" lead just with much more emphasis on loudness over clarity.

I mean, I'm just some jerk-off nobody who's mostly lurked here for a few years because literally no one else out of all my friends will talk "nerd shit" with me. I can only imagine what some of the other guys/gals think about it.

[The Romulan Republic]

Seems to me that the really nasty shit-flinging isn't over SF these days, but politics. Probably... at least two thirds of the really nasty exchanges I've had, or observed others having are in News and Politics. SF debates tend to be more laid back now.

Which... I guess its better in a way if people are fighting over shit that really matters, but it also probably means that the fights will be even nastier.

[Gandalf]

Weirdly, I remember things being way worse ten years ago. I am unsure as to what has changed.

[aerius]

Weirdly, I remember things being way worse ten years ago. I am unsure as to what has changed.

The class of 2002 has pretty much left for various reasons. Board culture has since shifted to reflect a membership which has no idea of what this place was all about in the old days; they weren't here and there's almost none of us around to set an example for the board.

[TheFeniX]

The site slowed down. People left. Many of them were exceedingly quick to go into "you fucking suck balls you" and then just explitives and comments about someone's mother. Now, that shit actually takes time to build. People take 3-4 rounds before that even starts coming out.

There really wasn't much to argue about. Nothing all that new WRT politics (people were leery of being overly critical of Obama) and Star Wars/Trek. There was some mileage out of some other fluff to come out, but I think the biggest dust-ups have been concerning comic movie trash and Hollywood's complete risk-adverseness.

Now we got Trump, shitty(er) GOP, new Star Wars, new Trek, new (better) not-Trek (Orville). And some comic movies and others which seem to be a bit riskier and paying off.

Which... I guess its better in a way if people are fighting over shit that really matters, but it also probably means that the fights will be even nastier.

Meh, you and I have had a few dust-ups concerning politics and that shit is tame. Is this were like 2005-2007, those dust-ups would been littered with entire paragraphs devoted to calling each other out as palm-fucking donkey-rapists. This site went mostly PG-13 over the past decade. Not complaining.

Those arguement I don't get involved in, where people tend to dogpile you, I'm not justifying it in the least: but the shit is downright TAME compared to what dogpiled posters dealt with in the past.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not just referring to shit I've been personally involved in either. But you're probably right, for the most part. I wasn't here until... 2008, I think, so I probably don't get the full sense of it, but I've gone back and read some of the old threads on occasion, and it could get pretty nasty.

I think you're right though- it settled down for a while due to lack of shit to argue about, then flared back up again (mainly due to the election and related political stuff, with some spill-over into the SF forums). So its tame, or at least no worse, compared to the early days, but nasty compared to how it was for the last several years, and what people have gotten accustomed to.

[TheFeniX]

Not just referring to shit I've been personally involved in either. But you're probably right, for the most part. I wasn't here until... 2008, I think, so I probably don't get the full sense of it, but I've gone back and read some of the old threads on occasion, and it could get pretty nasty.

I still find it odd/kind of annoying, every post I make has my date of registration. That usually means people lean toward the person with the older join date. Or, god forbid, post count.

Straha and the post about "whiteness" is like the worst I've seen in a while. For me, the discussion about WoW: Legion where 3-4 people were on my ass because I thought the endgame was shit was up there, but also incredibly tame. Had this been years back, I would have been fending off that as well as paragraphs of "go kill yourself" type insults.

Hilariously, most arguments I see and even get involved in, it's two people who are mostly in agreement and are going to task over some details. I am bad about this with Simon_Jester, likely because I love arguing for the sake of it.

To talk about politics: no one here wants Trump or the GOP, but everyone is butting heads over what to actually DO about them.

I think you're right though- it settled down for a while due to lack of shit to argue about, then flared back up again (mainly due to the election and related political stuff, with some spill-over into the SF forums). So its tame, or at least no worse, compared to the early days, but nasty compared to how it was for the last several years, and what people have gotten accustomed to.

Hey! I get to make a movie analogy (again): it's like how people lost their shit for Deadpool, even though the movie is on par with old 80s action movies WRT the violence and sex. But people just spent 20 years watching PG-13 safe movies, they weren't prepared: not the old-hat guys/gals, nor the new blood.

[Sea Skimmer]

The old board was well on it's way to dead almost a decade ago, call it 2009, and the death began with the fall of the stupid ass senate even earlier, but the reality is even had this place been far more inviting and less toxic culturally and not gone through that left wing phase it would have struggled to retain membership because I don't think sci fi has really excited people as much as it used to for at least that long. 2002 was a long time ago on the internet. God the very idea of a dedicated web forum is now outdated to a lot of people, right or wrong.

New sci fi stuff meanwhile may or may not be good, but it doesn't stand out the way old Trek and old Wars did. Only 40K seems to even come close in its ability to retain fans and detailed interest long term. That leaked in heavily into the way people treated new series and new posters posted about old stuff. Seen it, done that, nothing new to see ect... A lot of forums I once used in the early 2000s are just as dead or gone as this place, and the ones that survived survived basically because they have extremely high traffic of pure bullshit. A lot of it from the kind of people who got banned here, or just never would have given a shit about logical anything, which isn't the same as them actively dumb. It's just not how they get entertainment online.

The politics section was probably a terrible idea on par with the senate itself, but then it's hard to see how it could have been avoided without just shedding a shitload of people over boredom too. The left wing phase was really bad but that's life. I stopped seriously caring about anyone else's politics online a long time ago. Not worth the time unless I think it will make me laugh.

Most of my comments long have pertained to real life stuff and its possible links to sci fi for what have you, because when the good original sci fi ran out, that's what I went and learned more and more about how things actually work that actually exist, and still do. And I don't think I'd be where I am now on learning it without having gotten a boost here on the how and why of things working. So whatever else happened or will happen, no regrets on SDN for me. Sure stuff could have and should have been different, but then this site easily could have never existed, and some of the original members are now real life friends of mine too. That's life.

Personally I did make a mental note to clean up my act years ago, but I'd also say honestly after a couple years of very low use, I'm largely only around now because I still use the PM system to communicate with some older members whom are not active on the forums proper any longer, and cent resurgence of posting is directly linked to a serious physical injury I suffered that's kept me home a lot more then I'd like the past year. While I have no intention to actually leave, I also don't know how much longer this might last either.

Would agree also that very recently sci fi has seemed to have gotten a boost, but it still doesn't feel the same, I mean nothing will compared to one's childhood fantasy.

[fractalsponge1]

Forums in general died a while ago, not just this one. I think I've had more discussions on my own podunk website's wordpress comment threads than here for some years now.

I'd argue that scifi fandom in the sense of people who really care about minutiae hasn't gone away, but rather this idea that we have accounts that we maintain everywhere to discuss with small populations. Social media and networks on social media, where a lot of people are active anyway, has largely replaced them. They offer a bigger audience and much easier ways to connect to people than forums.

[Simon_Jester]

Seems to me that the really nasty shit-flinging isn't over SF these days, but politics. Probably... at least two thirds of the really nasty exchanges I've had, or observed others having are in News and Politics. SF debates tend to be more laid back now.

Which... I guess its better in a way if people are fighting over shit that really matters, but it also probably means that the fights will be even nastier.

The stereotype of nerds flinging shit about SF is pretty much only even remotely accurate-ish-ish when you're talking about people college age or younger. Very few of the Old Guard, or for that matter the Middle Guard (people like me who've been around for many years but weren't here in 2002-05 or so) are still in that demographic, and we don't get a lot of newbies.

EDIT:

I think the 'not a lot of newbies' thing has a lot to do with the point others are mentioning about social media having supplanted the 2000-style web forum. If you're twenty today, you have no real memory of a time before Facebook, so you don't really even see things that are fundamentally different from, and alternative to, Facebook. You might switch platforms from Facebook to some competitor, but you're not going to step 'back' to a fundamentally different venue.

[ray245]

You basically need to be a teenager from 2002-2008ish in order for forums your main source of "social media".

[Gandalf]

The old board was well on it's way to dead almost a decade ago, call it 2009, and the death began with the fall of the stupid ass senate even earlier, but the reality is even had this place been far more inviting and less toxic culturally and not gone through that left wing phase it would have struggled to retain membership because I don't think sci fi has really excited people as much as it used to for at least that long.

That made me wonder; what the hell was the point of the senate anyway, aside from delineating an in crowd?

[The Romulan Republic]

The old board was well on it's way to dead almost a decade ago, call it 2009, and the death began with the fall of the stupid ass senate even earlier, but the reality is even had this place been far more inviting and less toxic culturally and not gone through that left wing phase it would have struggled to retain membership because I don't think sci fi has really excited people as much as it used to for at least that long.

That made me wonder; what the hell was the point of the senate anyway, aside from delineating an in crowd?

Not much as far as I can tell, though I was never a member and it died not too long after I started posting here. Its not as though it had any real authority that was not subject to the whims of the Admins.

I guess it was part of the whole Galactic Empire theme this board has? Having a powerless rubber stamp Senate as a sort of fandom in-joke?

[Iroscato]

"Mockery of stupid people" always felt a bit...neckbeardy, I guess? I like the new slogan.

[MKSheppard]

Forums in general died a while ago, not just this one. I think I've had more discussions on my own podunk website's wordpress comment threads than here for some years now.

everyone moved to reddit. that's why.

[Ralin]

Not much as far as I can tell, though I was never a member and it died not too long after I started posting here. Its not as though it had any real authority that was not subject to the whims of the Admins.

I guess it was part of the whole Galactic Empire theme this board has? Having a powerless rubber stamp Senate as a sort of fandom in-joke?

If I remember right the moderation used to be a lot more arbitrary from the user perspective and stuff like those show trials of banned members were a lot more common. Wong created a members group to give the mods feedback from the people who had been around awhile and were agreed to have somewhat more reliable judgment than average. They didn't have actual power, but if a majority of them were voted to ban or title someone or something then that probably meant it was worth doing or vice-versa. It meant more advance warning when someone was banned and made it clearer why it happened, and just in general made people feel less like they were walking on eggshells.

[Lord Revan]

Personally I think the new Motto reflects the orginal purpose better anyway, the way I saw the purpose of this forum was not to insult and belittle those who thinked differently from me but to mock ideas that were frankly idiotic and had no basis in reality.

[Galvatron]

I can't help but wonder why Mike still maintains this site. Or has he handed if off to someone else by now?

[Xon]

The old board was well on it's way to dead almost a decade ago, call it 2009, and the death began with the fall of the stupid ass senate even earlier, but the reality is even had this place been far more inviting and less toxic culturally and not gone through that left wing phase it would have struggled to retain membership because I don't think sci fi has really excited people as much as it used to for at least that long. 2002 was a long time ago on the internet. God the very idea of a dedicated web forum is now outdated to a lot of people, right or wrong.

From running Sufficient Velocity and heavily involved in the technical aspects of running SpaceBattles, the toxic atmosphere is very much to blame at how this forum has faded away and not pivoted to something else.

Is SDN's peak activity was in 2005-2006, and has had a declining post rate and user on-line count ever since. Yes, being focused on what amounts to a single topic requiring stimulus from primary content producers didn't help. But people didn't stay on this forum to try to change that, they just left.

everyone moved to reddit. that's why.

Spacebattles is functionally a fanfiction site these days. Uses these new fangled "likes" to provide a feedback cycle between perspective authors and readers.

And hilariously costs less to run per month (adjusting for inflation) than it did when Kier ran it, and the member subscriptions pay the bills now

I can't help but wonder why Mike still maintains this site. Or has he handed if off to someone else by now?

"maintain" lol, the last major upgrade was a very long time ago and he couldn't bother maintaining the theme. From memory SDN runs off Mike's home internet connection and home file-server. This site isn't remotely active enough to even notice for internet usage or CPU/disk.

In comparison, Spacebattles pushes +2tb of traffic per month (compressed html too...), requires ~12 CPU cores and ~250gb of ssd diskspace.

[Zwinmar]

I just never felt the desire to really get into it as far as scifi debates. After all, I like the idea behind certain shows though their actual production left a lot to be desired.

[Galvatron]

I can't help but wonder why Mike still maintains this site. Or has he handed if off to someone else by now?

"maintain" lol, the last major upgrade was a very long time ago and he couldn't bother maintaining the theme. From memory SDN runs off Mike's home internet connection and home file-server. This site isn't remotely active enough to even notice for internet usage or CPU/disk.

In comparison, Spacebattles pushes +2tb of traffic per month (compressed html too...), requires ~12 CPU cores and ~250gb of ssd diskspace.

Nevertheless, why doesn't he just disband the forum altogether since he's clearly lost all interest in it?

[Simon_Jester]

Lingering fondness, desire not to disappoint friends of his who are still on the site, and extremely low operating costs?