The Big Bang Theory ends after twelve seasons (spoilers).

[The Romulan Republic]

The long-running sit-com "The Big Bang Theory" has come to an end (Good God, a lot of big series are coming to an end this year, if you include Endgame and Star Wars Episode IX as "endings"). The show was beloved by many, and pilloried by others for sexism and mocking nerds (I regard both criticisms as deserved at points, although the quality of the show, and the extent to which its comedy veered into being mean-spirited or prejudiced, varied greatly over its run).

I was a big fan a few years back, and though I hadn't watched much in a while, I had considered tuning in for the ending. I ultimately missed it, but when I realized the finale had aired I watched the final scene via Youtube. I honestly got a little watery-eyed- it was a very conventional happy ending, and I think I needed that, all the more so after Endgame and "Game of Thrones". I also think that there are a couple of very nice messages, here, that people need to hear. I haven't seen enough of the recent episodes to say whether the ending works plot and character-wise based on what happened up to that point, and one could make the argument that Penny's pregnancy being part of that happy ending, after the character had previously expressed her desire not to become pregnant, is sexist and forcing her into a conventional gender role, depending on how it was built up in the preceding episodes. But on its own, I found it quite a touching scene, and a fitting end. And it is so nice to be able to say that about a series right now.

Also, the Spoiler

Sarah Michelle Gellar guest appearance made my day, as a Buffy fan.

Here's the final scene if anyone's curious (spoilers, obviously): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFJdSf7yUUE

[TheFeniX]

"Then why are you holding my hand?"
:cue laugh track:

BBT once again has to remind an audience that it's impolite to not laugh at something not only aggressively unfunny, but also pretty fucking creepy, with the inclusion of a laugh track. I assume the guy is totally interested in Gellar, but she's not, so he just creeps on her in a way that would be in a L&O:SVU episode were it not for the laugh track.

That has always been my tagline for BBT: "Aggressively Unfunny" though I don't know if I heard that from someone way more clever than me (likely). It wasn't funny when I watched it the first time, nor did it ever get funnier over the years when everyone I know said "you should watch BBT, FeniX. You like nerd humour, right?" so I'd give it another shot. It's the fucking "Arrow to the knee" of nerd humour and never rose above even that.

I've caught 4-5 whole episodes and multiple short spurts before I changed the channel (because the unfunny part, but also the incredible amount of sexism and racism. Which I already have extremely high tolerance for. More so if the -ism has SOME comedy in it).

I'd rather (and HAVE) binge watch an entire season of the later Family Guy episodes than sit though a single episode of BBT. Literally, watching (and listening) to Peter just cut a fart for 15 straight seconds is better television than all of the BBT I've seen. FG is at least just... there. It's offensiveness and stupidity is "I don't want to do anything productive for 4 hours, let's watch this." BBT is actively painful for me to watch. Like "Cringe Compliation" the TV show.

That this show was as popular as it was and even won tons of awards is pretty damning evidence that pretty much everyone, across all socio-economic boundaries, is a total fucking moron.

[The Romulan Republic]

Eh, laugh tracks don't get to me that much, for whatever reason. That's more a matter of personal preference.

I won't disagree that Raj is a creep in that scene, and many others, though it is a bit of a leap from there to "violent predator". There are definitely some painfully sexist moments in the series*, as I noted above, though I think that the series' offensiveness varies greatly depending on the episode, and its pretty weird to condemn TBBT while defending Family Guy on misogyny and racism.


*The worst, I think, was in... season four, I believe, or maybe very late three, during one of Leonard and Penny's numerous break-ups, where he had sex with her while she was severely drunk (ie raped her, though of course the show did not acknowledge it as such), then basically blamed Penny for it, tried to hook up with another woman when Penny wasn't interested, and then whined about a double standard when she rejected him too. I nearly quit the show at that point, and might have done so had my politics evolved then to where they are today, though it stands out in my memory mainly because it was much worse than the show's norm and was arguably character derailment. That said, I maintain to this day that Leonard's actions in that episode were unforgivable, and that he and Penny should never have been a couple again after that point as a result.

I think adding the characters of Bernadette and Amy did a lot to salvage the show in its later seasons, and keep it interesting.

[Gandalf]

The Big Bang Theory: Because apparently autism is funny,

[The Romulan Republic]

A lot of people interpreted Sheldon as autistic, but it was never explicitly stated, and in fact the show makers have denied it. Take that as you will.

[Imperial528]

I came home to my dad watching the final episode last night; he was doing so to say he'd seen it, which I found unusual for him, but whatever.

It was the first time I'd ever seen the show for longer than five minutes. I avoided it because it always felt like one of those "Oh, we're not laughing at you*, we're laughing with you" kind of shows. I usually have a high tolerance for that kind of humor even, but with this show it felt off. Like, if it was malicious or mocking I could get it on a level, maybe even enjoy it if well executed, but this just felt cynical and exploitative. As if it was derived from audience surveys and filtered through a production bureaucracy.

*Replace 'you' with nerds, geeks, introverts, etc.

Good riddance.

[TheFeniX]

Eh, laugh tracks don't get to me that much, for whatever reason. That's more a matter of personal preference.

I grew up watching (and enjoying) shows like Married with Children and Home Improvement. Laugh tracks CAN have additive moments to humor, but even in those shows they made flat jokes fall even flatter. But those shows actually had jokes and jokes that could even illicit laughs. I recommend watching some of BBT with the laugh track edited out. When it's Penny interacting with any of the morons (not that she's a saint), but you end up asking "why is she tolerating the sexist shit they heap on her?"

I make sexist cracks at the wife, and I manage to illicit laughs out of her. Penny consistently seems disgusted by their comments, but the laugh track is supposed to make me believe "these people fucking hate each other, and that's funny!" I used to tolerate this level of toxicity from "friends" when I was in High School up to my early 20s. But at some point, the idea of "I'm going to spend 4 hours trading barbs with people I hate" just got old. I grew up, I guess. So, this makes all these people look pathetic.

I won't disagree that Raj is a creep in that scene, and many others, though it is a bit of a leap from there to "violent predator". There are definitely some painfully sexist moments in the series*, as I noted above, though I think that the series' offensiveness varies greatly depending on the episode, and its pretty weird to condemn TBBT while defending Family Guy on misogyny and racism.

SVU isn't a jump to "violent predator." As a show worth watching, it tackled all types of sex crimes. Such as one case of "he said/she said" with some grooming in the vein of "I brushed him off at first, but he kept coming on, and then after some drinks, etc, etc: we had sex." The detectives keep finding more and more evidence against both sides. The episode literally ends with:
"We the jury find......."
:credits:

Huge cock-block, great episode. Point is, there's so many "jokes" made on the show that are so offensive, if said in an episode of SVU (or Vanilla L&O for the racist ones) you would get that "this is the scumbag that did it" vibe, immediately. Family Guy does this all the time, but Peter is not shown (either in universe or in reality) as a decent person.

And No one is defending Family Guy except on the notion that it is capable is humor. BBT is not. My crack was literally "this shit is worse than Family Guy" and that's a pretty high (or low) bar. FG is at least self-aware about it's -isms as is it's creator. In fact the jokes are written specifically to be offensive. BBT is not self-aware on this fact. So it makes the total lack of humor sound more like some old Texan guy making a "What's the difference between a black guy and <X>" joke.

I recall some dust-up online about the Token Indian guy talking about some Indian names and a character saying "Save some syllables for the rest of us" or something like that. See, if FG made that crack, everyone would be like "FOR SHAME." But they give you Emmy's if you're adorkable. A phrase IIRC they had to coin to try and explain why people accept certain white guys being sexist/racist pieces of shit.

[FaxModem1]

Such classic writing

[The Romulan Republic]

Wow, I hadn't expected the show to be this universally hated, even on this board. I mean its flawed, sometimes painfully, but there are also a lot of episodes and characters I genuinely enjoyed, and even at its worst, its no more offensive than other shows that receive far less venom.

I guess I really am just out of step with what everyone else here likes.

[Jub]

When has anybody on this forum given an indication that we would like that cesspit of a nerd minstrel show? If we liked it it would probably have a thread for it alongside the threads for GoT, The Orville, ST:D, N:BSG etc.

You're not just out of touch but you're admitting to enjoying a rapey unfunny mess of a show commonly and openly mocked as being a show about smart people for dumb people. I don't get how you thought this would play any better than posting about Two and a Half Men here would have.

[The Romulan Republic]

When has anybody on this forum given an indication that we would like that cesspit of a nerd minstrel show? If we liked it it would probably have a thread for it alongside the threads for GoT, The Orville, ST:D, N:BSG etc.

You're not just out of touch but you're admitting to enjoying a rapey unfunny mess of a show commonly and openly mocked as being a show about smart people for dumb people. I don't get how you thought this would play any better than posting about Two and a Half Men here would have.

Like it or not, its an extremely influential show and its end is noteworthy. I said I enjoyed the ending, while noting a number of flaws that it suffered from. I do think the vitriol leveled at it is disproportionate, especially when we have shows like Family Guy (which takes gleeful delight in its own misogyny on a regular basis) being given a pass.

Yes, I'm sure this thread will be endlessly flogged by you and others to argue "TRR supports rape!" every time you want to score points in a debate. I look forward to the many reports I will be filing against you in the future (well, no, actually I'd rather eat a mouthful of thumbtacks, but if that's what it takes...).

Edit: I'll also add that I have always found people calling TBBT "a nerd minstrel show" to be incredibly racist. To try to compare mocking of "nerds" to the centuries of horror experienced by African Americans is entitled, privileged, and racist.

[TheFeniX]

Wow, I hadn't expected the show to be this universally hated, even on this board. I mean its flawed, sometimes painfully, but there are also a lot of episodes and characters I genuinely enjoyed, and even at its worst, its no more offensive than other shows that receive far less venom.

Hey, I fucking LOVED both Green Lantern and Lost in Space (the LeBlanc version). It doesn't mean my taste isn't dogshit. You are allowed to like shitty things and BBT is definitely a mass-produced, "comedy by committee," bunch of trite trash, with massive amounts of unfortunate implications that people who "should" not like fucking LOVE.

Like, my wife (and millions of other women) swoons over Grey's Anatomy: but it's sexist (and marginally racist) trash. The show is totally tone deaf when "McSteamy" routinely hits on female surgeons/nurses during excessively dangerous and complicated surgeries and he is called out on it with "if you didn't look how you look, you'd be up against a wall."

Same thing applies to "50 Shades of Holy shit, are you fucking kidding me?"

I guess I really am just out of step with what everyone else here likes.

I would have always assumed a place like SDN is the WORST place to look for support for a "nerd*" culture type show since it does not portray nerds realistically at all. We don't just jumble "neckbeard" trivia words into sentences and think there's comedy. BBT is no better than when CSI had a scene of two people typing on the same keyboard to defeat some super-hacker or the time where some 9/10 woman who has time for makeup has a "16-Core CPU" and the "High Score" in the "3 top MMOs." Or OR had someone actually CHASE a character in Second Life in order to "track his IP and take down his firewall."

BBT theories big claim to fame is that they have some actual physics/math nerds on staff to check their bullshit in that ONE area. Big fucking deal, so did Futurama (and actually solved some math equations in the process) and Futurama was actually funny.

EDIT: *There's nerd culture bullshit and then there's "nerd" culture bullshit. Know the difference, it could save your life. Basically, if normal ass-normal people (like my mom) get the joke, it ain't fucking nerd humor.

[TheFeniX]

Like it or not, its an extremely influential show and its end is noteworthy. I said I enjoyed the ending, while noting a number of flaws that it suffered from. I do think the vitriol leveled at it is disproportionate, especially when we have shows like Family Guy (which takes gleeful delight in its own misogyny on a regular basis) being given a pass.

American Idol was extremely influential. Emmy's all around, I guess.

Also, who the FUCK ever gives Family Guy a pass? Pretty sure the only awards the show has received has been due to music (since McFarlane spends TONS on symphonies) and his actual voice work, which does not take into the (lack) of quality of the writing. No one gushes over "FG makes fun of Jews.... again" except dudes with shaved heads.

I've had a few, so I just want to say as the guy who brought up Family Guy: I give the show NO PASSES except that it is capable of making me laugh once or twice an episode, something BBT theory has NEVER done outside a "holy shit, this is SO FUCKING BAD it's worth a laugh." Like "a group of liberal arts majors wrote this and thought 'people will find this amusing" and then they put it on TV and there are people dumb enough to laugh at it because a pre-recorded tape of "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHFDASHFSDAHFSDHFSDKFHSDKFSDHKFDSHF!" told them to.

Yes, I'm sure this thread will be endlessly flogged by you and others to argue "TRR supports rape!" every time you want to score points in a debate. I look forward to the many reports I will be filing against you in the future (well, no, actually I'd rather eat a mouthful of thumbtacks, but if that's what it takes...).

You care way too fucking much what anyone here thinks of you. They hate my guts (when I still posted) over in G&C and I couldn't dig up fucks to give with a backhoe.

[Jub]

Like it or not, its an extremely influential show and its end is noteworthy.

Yeah, people should raise some banners and throw a parade that TV just got 0.001% less trite and unfunny now that it's gone.

I do think the vitriol leveled at it is disproportionate, especially when we have shows like Family Guy (which takes gleeful delight in its own misogyny on a regular basis) being given a pass.

This feels like you taking arguments from outside of this forum and bringing them into your arguments again. I don't know why you find it so hard to separate this forum from the rest of the internet but please learn to do so.

Also, who here is giving Family Guy a pass? The most glowing words spoken here about it are 'At least the show doesn't treat Peter like a hero' and 'It's moderately more watchable than BBT because at least it knows it stupid and hateful' neither of which are endorsements.

Yes, I'm sure this thread will be endlessly flogged by you and others to argue "TRR supports rape!" every time you want to score points in a debate.

It's just funny that you're stand up for BBT while tearing into GoT for how they've treated your waifu Danny this past couple of episodes. Why does one show get a pass and a thread from you while the other sees several of your posts in a row writing fan fiction about a new ending and pointing out petitions to rewrite the entire final season as if they're in any way meaningful? That seems like a clear double standard to me and given how black and white you are about everything else on this forum I'm calling you out n it.

Edit: I'll also add that I have always found people calling TBBT "a nerd minstrel show" to be incredibly racist. To try to compare mocking of "nerds" to the centuries of horror experienced by African Americans is entitled, privileged, and racist.

Yes, making a somewhat questionable comparison is totally racists now!

Well, I guess I just need to say it with a backing laugh track and you'll forgive me, after all, it worked for BBT.

[The Romulan Republic]

Ignoring Jub's usual debate by ad hominem and libel for the moment, I guess I should explain what I like about the show. Mainly:

1- I like Jim Parsons as an actor. I suspect this is half the reasons most people like the show.

2- Despite the mockery of his annoying personality traits (obsessive, controlling, arrogant, nitpicky) Sheldon actually turns out to be right a surprising amount of the time, and surprisingly competent. Penny too. I've long felt that if she were born in a different time and place instead of late 20th. Century America, she could turn into a certified action hero.*

3- They do include a lot of interesting references to things, including some I first heard about through this show. Do they count as proper nerd humour? Don't know, don't really care.

4- I like that they never really gave into the temptation (despite massive fan pressure) to ship Sheldon/Penny, but kept their most popular female/male characters in a platonic relationship. There's a huge tendency to think that any male and female character who have an emotional attachment or chemistry together must end up fucking, and its always nice to see that subverted. Plus, I have at least a little respect for any writer who knows when to tell the most vocal parts of the fan base to go fuck themselves.

5- On that note, Kaley Cuoco and Jim Parsons, and their characters, have genuinely wonderful on-screen chemistry, at least in my opinion.

6- I like the moments when they do genuinely try to show respect for nerds (and yes, there are some, even though they're usually sandwiched between a bunch of crap). Hell, I'll link two of my favorites here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a14v7JrWOHU

Its brief, but Sheldon calling out Penny's hypocrisy here was really quite satisfying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDuk0-SXmsM

And this one. Its at the end of one of the most painfully nasty episodes of the series, where the male leads go on a trip to a convention and spend the whole episode basically being shit on by people/the world for being nerds.** But at the end they come home and find their girlfriends sitting and arguing over comic book minutia. You can interpret it various ways, but to me I took it as an acknowledgement that "Yeah, this stuff is actually pretty engaging to "normal" people too if they give it a chance."

6- Penny is hot. And some other characters, but mostly Penny. I fully admit that that's probably not a good reason to like the show, but I'd be lying if I didn't include it.

7- I like that this show is the reason that Bob Newhart now has a (ridiculously overdue) Emmy.

The good doesn't excuse the bad, it doesn't erase it, but there was enough there, for me, that I kept giving the show another chance.



*I've actually toyed with crossing over TBBT with one of several different SF franchises. If I ever do, though, I probably won't post it here given the response to this thread. Instead, I'll probably just save it for my Fanfiction.net account.

**That said, again, anyone who equates mockery of "nerds" to the history of racism against black people is being an entitled racist with no sense of perspective.

[The Romulan Republic]

Just going to point out a couple of things here:

This feels like you taking arguments from outside of this forum and bringing them into your arguments again. I don't know why you find it so hard to separate this forum from the rest of the internet but please learn to do so.

Also, who here is giving Family Guy a pass? The most glowing words spoken here about it are 'At least the show doesn't treat Peter like a hero' and 'It's moderately more watchable than BBT because at least it knows it stupid and hateful' neither of which are endorsements.

No, its definitely in response to things posted here.

Maybe "giving Family Guy a pass" isn't quite accurate, but TheFeniX basically opened by saying "Family Guy is better than TBBT".

It's just funny that you're stand up for BBT while tearing into GoT for how they've treated your waifu Danny this past couple of episodes. Why does one show get a pass and a thread from you while the other sees several of your posts in a row writing fan fiction about a new ending and pointing out petitions to rewrite the entire final season as if they're in any way meaningful? That seems like a clear double standard to me and given how black and white you are about everything else on this forum I'm calling you out n it.

"waifu"- Definition: "Waifu is a term for a fictional character, usually in anime or related media, that someone has great, and sometimes romantic, affection for."

So, I take it you're implying "I only object to the derail of Daenerys because I think she's hot"? Well, that's pretty mild by your usual standards of libeling me, but its still an ad hominem, and it still ignores my actual arguments in that thread for a cheap insult. I suppose its too much to ask for though that you would ever debate my arguments, rather than a (strawman of) my character. Coward.

Also, bringing that debate in another thread here is arguably Vendetta-ish behaviour, in my opinion.

As to the difference- well, say what you will about The Big Bang Theory, its flaws have always been there. As opposed to Game of Thrones, which pulled a last minute character derail. Also, Daenerys has become something of a feminist icon in a way that no one on TBBT has, which gives it added significance.

And frankly- while I don't hate TBBT, I care about GoT more than I do about it, because GoT was a legitimately better/more engaging show, until they wrecked it.

[The Romulan Republic]

I could also turn your attempt at deflection around, if I were the sort to engage in Whataboutism: how come people here are condemning TBBT for sexism, while defending Game of Thrones for it? Isn't that hypocritical?

Edit: Obviously, another thing I like about the show: it gave me a God damn straightforward, happy ending without trying to be "edgy" or "deconstructive" or "surprise me" by ruining all the characters or plot at the last moment. And right now, I could stand a little more of that.

[Jub]

No, its definitely in response to things posted here.

Maybe "giving Family Guy a pass" isn't quite accurate, but TheFeniX basically opened by saying "Family Guy is better than TBBT".

No, he said he laughed more at its jokes and found it an easier sit than the BBT episodes he saw. That says nothing about the quality of either show only that, in his eyes, BBT fails as a comedy while Family Guy at least gets the occasional laugh. That would be like saying that "insert Generic Comedy Movie" is a better comedy than a Madea movie. It's at best damning with faint praise.

"waifu"- Definition: "Waifu is a term for a fictional character, usually in anime or related media, that someone has great, and sometimes romantic, affection for."

So, I take it you're implying "I only object to the derail of Daenerys because I think she's hot"?

No, I was mocking your obvious attachment to a fictional character using a term I knew would get a rise out of you. If you didn't take everything as a personal attack and at its most literally maybe you wouldn't constantly feel under attack from this entire message board.

As to the difference- well, say what you will about The Big Bang Theory, its flaws have always been there. As opposed to Game of Thrones, which pulled a last minute character derail. Also, Daenerys has become something of a feminist icon in a way that no one on TBBT has, which gives it added significance.

So as long as you start out shit and stay shit all the way through you'll earn the coveted TRR seal of approval. That's good to know.

And frankly- while I don't hate TBBT, I care about GoT more than I do about it, because GoT was a legitimately better/more engaging show, until they wrecked it.

So once again, you'll praise a bad show for having occasional moments of mediocrity but won't praise a mostly good show that has a slightly rushed ending? Seems par for the course with you.

I guess the question now is, will you also boycott the books as it seems certain that Danny will turn evil in them as well?

I could also turn your attempt at deflection around, if I were the sort to engage in Whataboutism: how come people here are condemning TBBT for sexism, while defending Game of Thrones for it? Isn't that hypocritical?

1) Try that quote button instead of a triple post sometime champ.

2) GoT isn't sexist. It has tons of strong female characters and your projection that Danny's turn, handed down from GRRM, was in any way based on what some fans wanted is completely off base. It's also only in the final few episodes of the entire show where it was a core part of TBBT for its entire run.

Take a step back and realize that your emotional investment in Danny and GoT is clouding your judgment on this one.

[The Romulan Republic]

No, he said he laughed more at its jokes and found it an easier sit than the BBT episodes he saw. That says nothing about the quality of either show only that, in his eyes, BBT fails as a comedy while Family Guy at least gets the occasional laugh. That would be like saying that "insert Generic Comedy Movie" is a better comedy than a Madea movie. It's at best damning with faint praise.

Still seems hypocritical to me to choose Family Guy as an example of a show which does it better. Never mind suggesting that its sexism is somehow more tolerable because it is (in his personal taste) funnier.

No, I was mocking your obvious attachment to a fictional character using a term I knew would get a rise out of you. If you didn't take everything as a personal attack and at its most literally maybe you wouldn't constantly feel under attack from this entire message board.

So you admit that you were deliberately trolling me?

And no, I don't think everyone here is attacking me. Just the people who are, you know, attacking me.

So as long as you start out shit and stay shit all the way through you'll earn the coveted TRR seal of approval. That's good to know.

Not what I actually said, but since when has that ever mattered?

So once again, you'll praise a bad show for having occasional moments of mediocrity but won't praise a mostly good show that has a slightly rushed ending? Seems par for the course with you.

Do I think a mediocre show being mediocre is worse than a great show being utterly trashed? Yes. Just like I'd think taking a sledge hammer to Michelangelo's David would be worse than mass producing another cheap plastic toy. If you disagree, you have a pretty warped perspective.

I guess the question now is, will you also boycott the books as it seems certain that Danny will turn evil in them as well?

I'd ask you to justify that assertion, but this isn't a GoT thread and... obvious thread derail is obvious.

Though FYI, I'm not actually boycotting GoT- I'm just saying its become a piece of shit. If the books derail Danny's character at the last minute in a rushed, ham-fisted, misogynist manner, you better believe I'll call that shit too.

1) Try that quote button instead of a triple post sometime champ.

You are not my personal moderator, something you seem unable to accept despite the number of times both I and the actual moderators have endeavored to make it clear to you.

2) GoT isn't sexist. It has tons of strong female characters and your projection that Danny's turn, handed down from GRRM, was in any way based on what some fans wanted is completely off base. It's also only in the final few episodes of the entire show where it was a core part of TBBT for its entire run.

Take a step back and realize that your emotional investment in Danny and GoT is clouding your judgment on this one.

Obvious derail is obvious.

[Jub]

Still seems hypocritical to me to choose Family Guy as an example of a show which does it better. Never mind suggesting that its sexism is somehow more tolerable because it is (in his personal taste) funnier.

Please quote where Fenix says that FG is better or its sexism is more tolerable than similarly tasteless jokes in TBBT.

Do I think a mediocre show being mediocre is worse than a great show being utterly trashed? Yes. Just like I'd think taking a sledge hammer to Michelangelo's David would be worse than mass producing another cheap plastic toy. If you disagree, you have a pretty warped perspective.

GoT hasn't been trashed though. You just dislike how a plot thread was wrapped up and are being a massive baby about it.

[The Romulan Republic]

Please quote where Fenix says that FG is better or its sexism is more tolerable than similarly tasteless jokes in TBBT.

I'd rather (and HAVE) binge watch an entire season of the later Family Guy episodes than sit though a single episode of BBT. Literally, watching (and listening) to Peter just cut a fart for 15 straight seconds is better television than all of the BBT I've seen. FG is at least just... there. It's offensiveness and stupidity is "I don't want to do anything productive for 4 hours, let's watch this." BBT is actively painful for me to watch. Like "Cringe Compliation" the TV show.

GoT hasn't been trashed though. You just dislike how a plot thread was wrapped up and are being a massive baby about it.

Obvious derail is obvious. There's a whole thread for having this argument in Fantasy.

[Jub]

So where is the endorsement of quality here? More watchable =/= better.

As an example, is Iron Man an easier sit than 2001: A Space Odyssey? Most audiences would likely say yes.

Is it a better movie? No, not by any stretch of the imagination.

You see, an easier sit does not a quality show make.

[FaxModem1]

Wow, I hadn't expected the show to be this universally hated, even on this board. I mean its flawed, sometimes painfully, but there are also a lot of episodes and characters I genuinely enjoyed, and even at its worst, its no more offensive than other shows that receive far less venom.

I guess I really am just out of step with what everyone else here likes.

I think it's mostly because, and this is true for me as well, nerds used to be the punching bag. While geek culture is more mainstream(and yes, there is an obvious remnant of sexism inherent to the culture that we need to work on), this show continues that trend, to the point that those who were like these characters felt like the objects of ridicule by the audience.

As someone once said(on this board even): "Sheldon wears a Green Lantern t-shirt. The audience laughs."

Nerds are meant to be the butt of jokes, and for those who have been those before, it's not funny.

It's also worthwhile to note that the original concept of the show was that the Penny character(Katie) was meant to be much meaner and exploitative of the nerd characters, with us focusing on more of her exploits to use the guys for her own ends. We can see a scene of that here: link

Notice how Katie is pretty much using the two of them to get a free meal and these two socially awkward losers are fine with it, and we should find that hilarious.

Luckily, audience reaction was much more favorable towards the nerds, and they tweaked the premise a little, but the concept of laughing at the nerds remained. That's why people like me don't really like it.

[The Romulan Republic]

So where is the endorsement of quality here? More watchable =/= better.

As an example, is Iron Man an easier sit than 2001: A Space Odyssey? Most audiences would likely say yes.

Is it a better movie? No, not by any stretch of the imagination.

You see, an easier sit does not a quality show make.

Never said it did.

And though TBBT is fun to watch for me, about half the time, I fully recognize that it is light popular entertainment (so is GoT, when you get down to it, though much more spectacular in style/appearance, and much better-acted*). Its not a masterpiece, its not meant to be, and I don't expect it to be.

*I always watched GoT more for the visuals, music, and cast than for the scripts, to be honest.

[Jub]

Never said it did.

You literally quoted Fenix saying that FG was an easier sit than TBBT when I asked you for a quote saying that he endorsed it as being of higher quality. Given your response, I'm going to say that you've now conceded on that particular point.

And though TBBT is fun to watch for me, about half the time, I fully recognize that it is light popular entertainment (so is GoT, when you get down to it, though much more spectacular in style/appearance, and much better-acted*). Its not a masterpiece, its not meant to be, and I don't expect it to be.

Are you now trying to derail the thread by bringing GoT back into it? I dropped that line if you hadn't noticed.