Iraqis testing out top secret Russian Turret Ejection System

[MKSheppard]

This is intended to increase the survivability of their T-series tanks.

[Soulman]

I saw a T-55 (at least I think it was) get hit today and the turret must've flown 20-30ft into the air

[Vympel]

Shep, while a cool pic, it doesn't have much to do with Politics, so I'm putting it in Off-Topic. Or perhaps it belongs in A&P. Anyways.

[Cpt_Frank]

I bet they'll sell them cheap after the war is over.

[Vympel]

I bet they'll sell them cheap after the war is over.

I don't think there'll be any left to sell - besides, Iraq wouldn't be able to afford anything else, and quite frankly, the quality of the equipment isn't Iraq's problem. Their troop quality sucks more than their equipment ever will. Iraqi tankers are incredibly inaccurate. Put Iraqi tankers in an M1A1 and US tankers in a T-72M, and I think you wouldn't see the Iraqis doing that much better.

The Iraqis would be living longer and inflicting more losses on the enemy if they had bought this T-72 upgrade package though:

http://63.99.108.76/ubb/uploads/Jim+War ... 003_02.jpg

Because right now Iraq's T-72s suck. Mechanical, 1960s era fire control, the very earliest 125mm main gun models that just plain suck compared to the modern versions, thin armor, and awful ammunition.

New upgrade package for Russian tank
By Christopher F Foss

The Russian T-72M1 main battle tank is deployed by a large number of countries in the Middle East and North Africa, but many of these were supplied more than 20 years ago and are in need of a major upgrade.

The Ural Design Office of Transport Mechanical Engineering is the original design authority for the T-72M1 and, in association with the Uralvagonzavod production facility, has developed a major upgrade package for the T-72M1.

This upgraded T-72M1 is the only tank taking part in the mobility exhibition at IDEX 2003. So far, two company funded prototypes of the upgraded T-72M1 have been completed. The one retained in Russia has been fitted with the advanced Arena active defensive aids system.

The T-72M1 tank has been upgraded in three key areas - armour, mobility and firepower. For improved battlefield survivability, the vehicle has been fitted with the latest explosive reactive armour system over the frontal arc. The new smoke grenade launcher system is coupled to laser detectors situated around the turret.

An electromagnetic protection system has been installed to activate magnetic mines before they come into contact with the vehicle. The T-72M1 also has a new NBC system and a new fire detection and suppression system.

The original engine has been replaced by a B-92C2 V-12 diesel developing 1,000hp, which improves top speed and acceleration. A new automatic gear shifting system has been installed to reduce driver fatigue.

Firepower is enhanced by the installation of the latest 125mm 2A46M gun, which can fire the newest family of ammunition as well as a laser-guided projectile with a maximum range of 5km. A new fire control system is fitted. The commander and gunner have stabilised sights and the gunner's sight has a thermal channel. A thermal automatic target tracking system is also fitted.

The roof-mounted 12.7mm machine gun can now be fired by remote control by the commander from within the turret. A satellite navigation system has been installed, as have a new communications system and tank interphone.

The design of the upgrade is modular so that the customer can select only the part of the upgrade package that meets his operational requirements, or more likely, funding constraints.

A number of other countries around the world offer upgrades for the T-72 tank, but Russia is determined to capture a major slice of this lucrative market.

So even the export versions of the T-72 (T-72M and T-72M1) still have a lot of life left in them- and it's cheaper than buying a new tank park. A lot of Iraqi T-72s are T-72M (the export version of the very first T-72) rather than T-72M1 (export version of T-72A)- but I don't see why this upgrade couldn't apply to the T-72M.

But their crews would still suck ass.

[Cpt_Frank]

I bet they'll sell them cheap after the war is over.

I don't think there'll be any left to sell

Ah well I guess I'll have to settle with our local NVA-T-54s then

The Iraqis would be living longer and inflicting more losses on the enemy if they had bought this T-72 upgrade package though:

http://63.99.108.76/ubb/uploads/Jim+War ... 003_02.jpg

Because right now Iraq's T-72s suck. Mechanical, 1960s era fire control, the very earliest 125mm main gun models that just plain suck compared to the modern versions, thin armor, and awful ammunition.

Hmm ERA.....

(It's good that the Iraqis don't have the upgrades though.)

[Glocksman]

The original engine has been replaced by a B-92C2 V-12 diesel developing 1,000hp, which improves top speed and acceleration. A new automatic gear shifting system has been installed to reduce driver fatigue

From what I understand, many Russian tanks of that time period were woefully underpowered and sluggish due to lack of a decent engine.

[Nathan F]

This was just ASKING for something like this to happen:

[Lonestar]

Those civilians look scared.

[Andrew J.]

Nice one, Nathan.

[Howedar]

But their crews would still suck ass.

If they had the money for those upgrades, then they'd probably have the money for decent training.

Its not as if an Iraqi tankist is inheritly worse than an American or British tankist.

[Pu-239]

!!! What happened to the crew? And I know it is unlikely for the bodies to be removed if it was shot by DU shells. Don't see any remains.

Did this model have an autoloader? I heard this happens when the round in the autoloader goes off.

[Sea Skimmer]

Reminds me of an old story. A grandfather asks his grandson who's returned from the war in Chechnya what he's learned. The Grandson replies he learned a tank turret can fly ten meters.

[Sea Skimmer]

So even the export versions of the T-72 (T-72M and T-72M1) still have a lot of life left in them- and it's cheaper than buying a new tank park. A lot of Iraqi T-72s are T-72M (the export version of the very first T-72) rather than T-72M1 (export version of T-72A)- but I don't see why this upgrade couldn't apply to the T-72M.

But their crews would still suck ass.

If your going to fight a modern enemy, its questionable if upgrading and early T-72 with more then light ERA has a point.

[Darth Wong]

Its not as if an Iraqi tankist is inheritly worse than an American or British tankist.

Are they conscripts? Conscripts are generally not as dedicated.

[Sea Skimmer]

!!! What happened to the crew? And I know it is unlikely for the bodies to be removed if it was shot by DU shells. Don't see any remains.

Did this model have an autoloader? I heard this happens when the round in the autoloader goes off.

Dead in many small pieces no doubt. It was more likely blown up with a missile or HEAT shell, a sabot would go through the tank, out the back into go on to destroy one behind it, or morel likely hit a house full of civilians.

I can't tell the exact model, T-55 or T-62. No auto loader, but the ammo is very exposed anyway. Russian tanks have tended to have there turrets blown off in combat since the 1960's, but only with there more recent designs has Russia done anything about it by adding a seperate ammo compartment.

[Sea Skimmer]

Its not as if an Iraqi tankist is inheritly worse than an American or British tankist.

Are they conscripts? Conscripts are generally not as dedicated.

Almost the whole Iraqi army is conscripts.

But you can have dedicated well trained conscripts, the Israel Army for example in peace time has 16000 regulars and 88,000 conscripts yet is one of the worlds best. In wartime the disparity is even greater. I the troops have something to fight for, as they generally do in a democracy, there reason for being in service doesn't do that much to there performance. Germany, the ROK and many other armies including just about all of NATO have all produced effective troops from conscription.

However regulars are generally better for a great many reasons.

[Vympel]

!!! What happened to the crew? And I know it is unlikely for the bodies to be removed if it was shot by DU shells. Don't see any remains.

Did this model have an autoloader? I heard this happens when the round in the autoloader goes off.

Dead in many small pieces no doubt. It was more likely blown up with a missile or HEAT shell, a sabot would go through the tank, out the back into go on to destroy one behind it, or morel likely hit a house full of civilians.

I can't tell the exact model, T-55 or T-62. No auto loader, but the ammo is very exposed anyway. Russian tanks have tended to have there turrets blown off in combat since the 1960's, but only with there more recent designs has Russia done anything about it by adding a seperate ammo compartment.

It's a T-72 IMO. Look at the main gun. The 100/115mm don't look like that- thermal sleeve gives it away.

If your going to fight a modern enemy, its questionable if upgrading and early T-72 with more then light ERA has a point.

Why not? The heavy ERA can still defeat penetrators, and the modern fire control actually allows them to fire back

From what I understand, many Russian tanks of that time period were woefully underpowered and sluggish due to lack of a decent engine.

Not really. A T-72 has an 840hp engine and weighs around 47 tons. An M1A1 has a 1,500hp engine, but weighs nearly 70 tons. The M1A1 still has a greater power-to-weight ratio, but not by any significant margin. Of course, the 1,000hp engine gives the T-72 (and T-90, which the engine is also mounted on) virtually the same power-to-weight ratio over the M1. The T-80U has the M1 beat though, because it weighs less and has a 1,250hp gas turbine engine. Now however, you have supercharged diesels that can put out the same hp for less fuel consumption. The next Russian tank will probably have a 1,200hp diesel.

[Sea Skimmer]

It's a T-72 IMO. Look at the main gun. The 100/115mm don't look like that- thermal sleeve gives it away.

I thought Iraq upgraded a bunch of its T-55's and T-62's with thermal sleeves? The turret mantel is probably the best spot to make an ID on. Right now it can't tell. I'm almost thinking it’s a Chieftain but I doubt it

Why not? The heavy ERA can still defeat penetrators, and the modern fire control actually allows them to fire back

Money. Modern fire control and heavy ERA are very expensive, while anyone can build there own light ERA easily. I'd buy some nice modern misiles to shoot back with, much better to kill the target then be happy to see my T-72 get a first round hit and have the shell bounce off.

[Nathan F]

It is highly possible there weren't any crew in it. They have found multiple tanks abandoned, so they simply stuck some C4 on them and blew them to kingdom come.

[Setzer]

Its not as if an Iraqi tankist is inheritly worse than an American or British tankist.

Are they conscripts? Conscripts are generally not as dedicated.

IIRC, most of Iraq's army are conscripts. The Republican guard has more volunteers. It explains their greater loyalty to the regime, even when you ignore all the perks and preferential treatment they get.

[EmperorMing]

Reminds me of a flip-top coke...

The Flip-Top Tank!!

Or something...