StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I figured the "math" in the title would get some attention. And there is math involved.

Background:
I am currently "honorary aunt" to a 17 year old girl coming from a very bad situation. Her mother is a hoarder of the unsanitary sort, to the point said girl (I'll call her "Sally") called the authorities on her own parents. I don't know all the details but what I know was pretty horrific. I won't get into too many details but let's just say one of many issues was that the only toilet in the residence had been non-functional for some time, yet was still being used for defecation. Sally was removed from the household of her parents. Her half-sister has been a friend of mine for years and is over 10 years older than Sally, in a stable marriage, and received first temporary custody and now is the permanent, legal guardian of her younger sister (bio-parents' rights have been terminated. Permanently). You all will probably be happy to know Sally is in therapy and is recovering from her nightmare. Yay.

I was asked to be an official Additional Responsible Adult in Sally's life. This largely consists of, as I said, being an "honorary aunt". Up until now it's been largely group stuff like a tie-dye party, or the "End of the World Dinner Party", and various other things. But I became aware that Sally was struggling in a number of classes. Well, this is not entirely surprising - her bio-parents did not help her with school, and the environment was not conducive to learning. She also wound up skipping out on nearly an entire year of school prior to moving in with her sister. The good news is that she has missed only about a half dozen days of school in the past year and her grades are improving. But that's improving from a very low bar.

So I suggested that maybe I could try to help her with school work. Despite never formally studying Spanish I was able to help her with her Spanish, which is low-level and similar enough to French that I could spot when she was making errors in verb conjugations or agreements between adjectives and nouns. And she had a very good laugh over my poor pronunciation.

History and basic science I was more helpful, along with her "speech" class (public speaking and presentations) but she's actually doing well/passing those and mostly what she needs is cheerleading and encouragement there.

But math... oh dear. She is failing math. To the point that a notoriously-bad-at-math person such as myself is trying to tutor her. Now, I can relate to her struggles. It took me three times to pass trigonometry and I famously crashed-and-burned in spectacular disaster in pre-calculus. I get the emotional issues with struggle and failure here.

Currently she's in what the US calls "Algebra I", working on graphing parabolas. She's failing. I'm struggling, too, because I haven't had to do this sort of math in (counts on fingers and toes) about 40 years. I did know it once, so for me it's jiggling the memories more than learning from scratch, but my mental machinery is rusty. (I've been hitting Khan Academy for this, which I have found quite helpful) She, on the other hand - well, I spent most of one session with her going over basic stuff like factoring terms. Then I had to back track to reviewing how to factor integers. I'm not sure how much I actually helped or not. Well, helped with some pre-this-stuff terminology and math, which I hope helps.

She has been asking the teacher for help - her homework had a number of problems the teacher had worked through with her, as well as two different methods for multiplying polynomials in a clear attempt to find a method she could latch onto. However, the teacher can only do so much and has many other students.

Sally is not as extroverted and as assertive as I was at that age. Me, I went and got more help on my own. It at least got me through Algebra II, trigonometry, and geometry even if I didn't make it to calculus. But then, I wasn't living in a literal cesspit for part of my childhood. She's not me, and I don't expect her to be, even if it might help her to be more assertive.

Anyhow - she's intelligent, even if floundering. I think with more time to heal and some help she could catch up - except there isn't the time. She's in what is normally her second-to-last year of primary education. I don't see her mastering all this math in the time between now and when she should graduate. Even if she winds up going a fifth year of high school - a strong possibility due to how much time she missed in earlier years depriving her of credits - she's not going to recover in math sitting in a class that is over her head because she's lacking in prior prerequisites and practice in earlier concepts.

Which lead me to wonder just how in the hell she had been assigned to her current math class. Answer from her sister: "I don't know". This is not as mysterious an answer as it may first appear - prior to permanent custody being awarded my friend was not permitted to be involved in her sister's education, at least not from the standpoint of having a say in course selection, and by all accounts the bio-parents couldn't be bother. AND Sally was transferred to a new school district AND covid.... yeah, a mess. To my mind, Sally would be better off in a pre-algebra class/remedial class/whatever because she's not handling what's she's currently got.



Well, I have zero say in what she takes, not being an actual relative. I have discussed (sans Sally) with her sister these issues, which have been bothering her as well. Not the least because neither my friend nor her husband are capable of understanding graphing parabolas even as well as I do, and yes that's a low bar. They can not help her with her homework. I'm trying to help her, but there are obstacles here I didn't anticipate. Sally has long had desire to become a vet. Um... that's animal doctor, and medicine is math heavy. Sally has also expressed interest in being a mechanic of some sort (hangs out with her foster-father when he's doing that sort of work around the house/vehicles, so she seems to have genuine interest) and that also requires some math skills for modern certifications (although her foster-father can and does help her with that sort of math).

I don't see Sally going directly from high school to a four-year college. Her sister and I have discussed options, like GED, junior college, working for a year or two once she graduates high school then going to junior college.... I introduced her to Khan academy and pointed out that since it's on-line she doesn't have to worry about other people judging her if she makes mistakes and honestly I think Salman Khan is better at explaining a lot of stuff than I am. Sally is already using Grammarly to improve her writing, so she might go for it.

But... I'm just supremely frustrated, even angry, at this young woman being put into a math class she simply can't handle at this point. How did this happen? I didn't enjoy being remedial math for years, but it's what I needed and what enabled me to learn the math I actually needed to know in life, and given me the necessary foundation for picking up whatever other math I needed down the line.

Meanwhile, I'd still really like to help her out. It's a source of pride for me that even if I suck at math I stuck with it and actually learned the subject after much hard work. To the point that I sometimes find myself in situations where I'm the "smart one at math" (which ... I can't help feeling it just highlights how poorly math is taught/learned in this country. Even if it is a boost to my ego for someone else to say "you're good at math". No, I'm not, I'm just really, really stubborn when I decide I'm going to do something).

So, if you've gotten this far, this is partly a rambling rant, but also I'm open to suggestions as to how I might help this girl.

I was in college having to take the Survey of Math course because of how horrible I was at it I found out that I transpose numbers (for example: I would read an 83 as 38) and it was unpredictable when it happened. Needless to say, it made math extremely difficult, it didn't matter how long or hard I worked at it I was literally seeing the wrong thing.

Could she be doing the same thing? She sounds intelligent so the theories and theorems shouldn't be an issue.

No, I'm the doing the number transposition - not constantly, but I do do it from time to time. It's one reason I'm slow at math, I have to consciously and carefully look at everything. Oddly enough, I don't do that with letters/words. Not at all.

I think a lot of it is that she's just missed a lot of school. She skipped enough to get into to trouble with the law over her truancy. She only attended about half of the time for a number of years, and missed nearly her entire freshman year of high school. It's like you took someone at one level of math and dumped them into a class four years more advanced and expected her to catch up on her own.

I have to wonder if, when she transferred to a new school, they just looked at her age and assumed she'd fit into the average classes for her peers, ignoring how much school she'd missed.

hmmmm.

Ok. first off. Open offer to help. If you get stuck on something and it's late, dm it to me and thanks to timezones, it'll be sitting ready for you in the morning. I am good at maths (in an engineering keep hitting it till it works way), and use to volunteer as a math tutor at a weekend club.

From what you wrote, I getting a lot of anxiety from you about maths, but very little about how she feels about it. You are playful in your description of the other subjects, but for maths it comes across as trauma, and feeling that all you can do is be assertive at the topic, and that you feel there are missing pieces in her education without the confidence to say what they are. Those feelings are going to get in the way of effective tutoring. As I said, I extend an open offer to help, but it might worth roping in another aunt for this topic.

On resources:
Khan academy is a good call.
BBC bitesize is often good https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/subjects/z6nygk7
I would also recommend the Murderous Maths series - http://www.murderousmaths.co.uk/
I picked up ideas from there that I didn't see again until university. The maths teacher also seems to be very supportive, and is teaching that 'there's many ways to skin a cat' which I think is the fundamental lesson a lot of school maths misses. There's a lot of resources out there, and learning to pull from multiple and find a way through will stand her in huge support come university and adult learning.

For me, basic maths was sometimes frustrating and painful, hammering ideas into a crack in my brain until suddenly it flipped and opened out into a beautiful valley. But that valley became easier and easier to reach, and gradually I learnt to be curious and climb rockfaces and reach it in different ways. The syllabus is set up the way it is as a consistent route for most average students. The order stuff is taught in can be much more flexible for the individual, and that means that even faced with advanced concepts, she WILL be able to backfill things she's missed, learning in her own way.

madd0c0t0r2 wrote: ↑2022-11-17 06:17am Ok. first off. Open offer to help. If you get stuck on something and it's late, dm it to me and thanks to timezones, it'll be sitting ready for you in the morning. I am good at maths (in an engineering keep hitting it till it works way), and use to volunteer as a math tutor at a weekend club.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

From what you wrote, I getting a lot of anxiety from you about maths, but very little about how she feels about it.

Sure, I have lingering anxiety about math from years of too many people yelling at me "You're smart! How can you not do this? You're just lazy! You're not trying hard enough! You could do it if you wanted to!" Fortunately, I also had people in my life who realized it was not lack of effort or desire and being smart at, say, your native language doesn't mean you're automatically good at everything.

How does she feel about it? From what I can tell (a mix of asking and observing) frustration bordering on despair, to the point she often wants to just give up.

Those feelings are going to get in the way of effective tutoring. As I said, I extend an open offer to help, but it might worth roping in another aunt for this topic.

There isn't another aunt. I'm the closest thing she has to a relative who can help her with this and honestly my confidence in that regard is shaky, as it probably obvious.

Thanks for the references

For me, basic maths was sometimes frustrating and painful, hammering ideas into a crack in my brain until suddenly it flipped and opened out into a beautiful valley. But that valley became easier and easier to reach, and gradually I learnt to be curious and climb rockfaces and reach it in different ways.

Ah, well, that never happened for me. It never opens into a beautiful valley. I come out of a narrow, storm-lashed mountain pass in to a wilderness of sharp rock, howling winds, and chill, damp air, a landscape full of potholes and hidden chasms to fall into. For me math is and always has been extremely hard. It is never fun, or creative, or pretty. It is never enjoyable, it is something to be endured while on the way to reaching a goal of some sort.

The syllabus is set up the way it is as a consistent route for most average students. The order stuff is taught in can be much more flexible for the individual, and that means that even faced with advanced concepts, she WILL be able to backfill things she's missed, learning in her own way.

I hope so.

I didn't realize how behind she was, and I'm not entirely sure I am able to help her but I'll at least try. Either by helping her directly or steering her to someone who can.

I'm not sure how it is in your state, but a couple years ago I had the experience of being a long term substitute for chemistry and physics at a high school in California. I was genuinely shocked at how few students really understood what I thought to be fairly basic math, things like canceling basic fractions or fairly simply cases of rearranging equations. The problem isn't really that common core itself is bad, it is that the switchover meant that kids were missing vital pieces and were advanced anyway. Meanwhile some of the science textbooks that are out there don't have much actual math in them, in which they make the focus about concepts in an attempt to get everyone to take biology, chemistry, and physics. I really wonder how colleges are handling this and how numbers of students in science and engineering are playing out over the next few years. This probably doesn't help you, but maybe at least it gives some context.

For actual advice, if she's thinking about a future career that needs math, math classes from a junior college are certainly a valid option in the long run. When I was in college I knew an engineering major who started with algebra and went all the way through most of calculus at a junior college before applying to a university. It's certainly possible to prepare for a math heavy field even starting late, if one has enough motivation and can take a few years while working on the side. They tend to test you into the right classes regardless of what you've taken in high school or how well you did in those classes from what I remember.

Yes, I have been emphasizing to her sister/guardian that she can pick up whatever she missed/failed/whatever later if she needs it, that there are options.

When my older sister went back to school in her mid-40's to study medicine she took classes at the local junior college to get up to speed for the entry requirements for medical school, so it's quite doable years or even decades later.

We'll see how things go.

Back when I was playing the part of "Honorary Uncle," I was fortunate enough to have an "Honorary Niece," who is great at damn near everything and just needed a quiet place to study. I did, however, tutor algebra when I was in high school for a while. My student (I was 15, she was 13) caught on that I was a very lonely nerd (you heard it here first, folks) and kind of started dropping hints that if I just did her homework for her I'd still get paid and we would have time to make out. Which wasn't very productive for her education, but was kind of some three-dimensional chess for that age so I guess she was pretty smart in some ways. Needless to say, her mom figured it out. That was the first job I ever got fired from. Long story short, despite being pretty good at math I was a shit math tutor and don't have much to offer except: Good luck! Just caring enough to try is huge in this scenario.