StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Rules are simple:

1) no projectile weapons

Propose a new martial arts weapon that is based on something that is readily available now. Points for originality, flexibility and style. Points for responding to realistic threats.

Argue how it could be used against standards (open palm, jo staff and tanto knife). It doesn't need to be better than or perfect for any of them, just credible.

Example:
Claw hammer with metal handle.



It's a small weapon with short reach and fast response. The hammer end is well suited to joint strikes or numbing strikes. It is deadly when directed at the skull . The claw can be used as a poor control of longer weapons, with the possibility of a twist lock if the opponent overcommit. Two hammers together make this a more viable solution.
The top of the hammer can be used for less damaging strikes if a feint or a knockout is sort, but the short handle makes this rarely practical. Against open palm, the main risk appears to be the head being seized and the hammer twist being used to inflict a wrist lock. Like all short reach weapons, it struggles against a jo. It fares better against a knife, but still struggles to block or otherwise take advantage of a straight thrust attack.

Demolition hammer. Rips, tear, grab, twist, impact, puncture. Though a Halligan tool might work a bit better.

Carabiner boxing. Using carabiners as brass knucks, which is what I do when I'm walking alone in dodgy places late at night because an ASP baton was too heavy and hard to draw from the bag and conspicuous to carry. With a carabiner you can already have it on and ready for an uppercut while your hand is in your pocket or behind your bag.

Too bad about no projectile weapons. Hot coffee mug quickdraw would be a hoot.

There's umbrella fighting but that's NOT exactly new and I'm sure can be done with canne. But actually, umbrella self-defense is something I've mulled about. Aside from using the handle as a pommel for butting, you can probably actually open the whole umbrella to use as a temporary makeshift shield or obstacle to help you escape or outflank or something.

Jacket fighting, not grappling with jackets on which is part of judo and Chinese grappling, but also removing one's jacket and wrapping it around one's hand as a makeshift shield, or unwrapping it as a strangulation weapon.

Bag defense, which a friend in France actually experiments with:

madd0c0t0r2 wrote: ↑2022-12-22 06:08am Claw hammer with metal handle.



It's a small weapon with short reach and fast response. The hammer end is well suited to joint strikes or numbing strikes. It is deadly when directed at the skull . The claw can be used as a poor control of longer weapons, with the possibility of a twist lock if the opponent overcommit. Two hammers together make this a more viable solution.

It's almost interchangeable with tomahawk fighting, which was/is a fad in the weapons and Filipino Martial Arts community.

The top of the hammer can be used for less damaging strikes if a feint or a knockout is sort, but the short handle makes this rarely practical. Against open palm, the main risk appears to be the head being seized and the hammer twist being used to inflict a wrist lock.

Eh that's fine, if they grab your weapon you also have your free hand to strike them with and they have one less hand to defend said strikes. Plus a claw hammer is short enough that it's actually easy to re-assert control compared to longer impact weapons which IMO are easier to wrestle/snatch.

Like all short reach weapons, it struggles against a jo. It fares better against a knife, but still struggles to block or otherwise take advantage of a straight thrust attack.

A claw hammer could serve as a makeshift entangling sai but yeah staffs and spears have nearly unbeatable reach. Straight thrusts from knives can be blocked by striking the incoming hand. Blocks and intercepting strikes are interchangeable IMO as long as the intercepting strike is snappy and doesn't overshoot or over-swing.

Shroom Man 777 wrote: ↑2023-01-04 12:18pm Carabiner boxing. Using carabiners as brass knucks, which is what I do when I'm walking alone in dodgy places late at night because an ASP baton was too heavy and hard to draw from the bag and conspicuous to carry. With a carabiner you can already have it on and ready for an uppercut while your hand is in your pocket or behind your bag.

I like it, but is it something that would require different training to standard punch fighting?

Shroom Man 777 wrote: ↑2023-01-04 12:18pm There's umbrella fighting but that's NOT exactly new and I'm sure can be done with canne. But actually, umbrella self-defense is something I've mulled about. Aside from using the handle as a pommel for butting, you can probably actually open the whole umbrella to use as a temporary makeshift shield or obstacle to help you escape or outflank or something.

as made popular more recently by Kingsman

and as incorporated into Baritsu as a variation on the cane.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/CEu5_v1iv-k[/youtube] (2 minutes in)
the only video I can find that looks, even shallowly at the effect of an open umbrella is this one (3:55 in)

Shroom Man 777 wrote: ↑2023-01-04 12:18pm Jacket fighting, not grappling with jackets on which is part of judo and Chinese grappling, but also removing one's jacket and wrapping it around one's hand as a makeshift shield, or unwrapping it as a strangulation weapon.

I love this. Really something to consider in more detail

Shroom Man 777 wrote: ↑2023-01-04 12:18pm Bag defense, which a friend in France actually experiments with:

Mixed feelings. I can see it working, but bags being what they are, is there much technique that can be drawn out of a floppy thing held up with your hand exposed at top?

[/quote]

madd0c0t0r2 wrote: ↑2023-01-05 04:51am

Shroom Man 777 wrote: ↑2023-01-04 12:18pm Carabiner boxing. Using carabiners as brass knucks, which is what I do when I'm walking alone in dodgy places late at night because an ASP baton was too heavy and hard to draw from the bag and conspicuous to carry. With a carabiner you can already have it on and ready for an uppercut while your hand is in your pocket or behind your bag.

I like it, but is it something that would require different training to standard punch fighting?

Depending on how well the carabiners fit or how poorly they fit (in my case my index finger isn't inside the carabiner) bad punches might cause finger damage so using hammer fists would be more sensible. I translate my FMA background so it's hammerfists/icepick style attacks. The weapon can also be used for interceptions, limb destructions when people swing at you (you just manage the distance and hold your weapon in the path of the incoming punch) which also applies against knives.

the only video I can find that looks, even shallowly at the effect of an open umbrella is this one

For me my application of the open umbrella would be aside from blocking strikes, if and when they try to rip the umbrella away they will commit one or both hands to doing that, so you could have an opening for your own blows. Short umbrella applications would differ slightly from full sized ones whereas those huge beach/pool umbrellas would be the equivalent of naginatas

I love this. Really something to consider in more detail

Silat people do have sarong strangulation applications and the jiujitsu people know a lot about fabric attacks.

Use of cloaks and capes and other clothing in the off-hand has also been done throughout history. James Bond uses it purely defensively in Casino Royale.

Mixed feelings. I can see it working, but bags being what they are, is there much technique that can be drawn out of a floppy thing held up with your hand exposed at top?

Depends on the bag dimensions, it will serve as a makeshift shield, your hand needn't be exposed depending on how you hold and how you swing it, and can it can entangle weapons or add another layer that they have to penetrate (one hand holds a bag close to the body's vitals so knives have a harder time, other hand attacks or fends off). I'd hold the bag close to my body with one hand and use that covered side akin to a Philly Shell in boxing while the free hand counterpunches.

At the very least it serves as a barrier like using a stool defensively during a bar fight, or like this chair vs. machete encounter (FB link).

At best you get to do an Everything Everywhere All At Once cosplay like me lol:



Other objects for martial arts-ing:

Chairs, shovels (partially covered in the World Wars), baseball bats are an obvious choice too but already intersects with extant weapons martial arts so it doesn't count as a "neo martial art weapon" per se (I've tried drilling with a short aluminum bat, it works but needs wrist conditioning).

A fellow practitioner also tried drilling with freaking baguettes when we ran into each other at a bakery

Screwdrivers? Probably intersects with knife arts and no novel techniques.

Crowbars would be akin to your claw hammers but bigger. Locking and hooking applications will depend on the curviness of the crowbar in question.

Wrenches would serve as a unique anti-weapon weapon with how their heads could potentially catch weapons like sais!

Ah, RAKE FENCING! Not really self-defensive combative realistic uuuurgh tacticool but for novelty and fun, combining spear and staff movements as well as the unique locking applications of the rake heads! And RAKE JOUSTING on those drive-able lawn mowers

Bottle fighting, which will transition from bludgeoning with the intact bottle to edged weapon fighting when it shatters.

lol those French guys who I trained with just made a video on short umbrella sparring:



The thrust and handle "pommel" applications are good IMO but striking with the body of the umbrella, I'm not so sure.

i'm not sure about as part of a martial art, but I've always thought a weedeater with the circular saw attachment would make for a really nasty melee weapon, all the ripping power of a chainsaw but with standoff reach.

The best weapon of all, IMHO, is the one I have in my hand right now. A roll of quarters or a Bic lighter turns a lightweight into a thundercat.

Trigger Warning etc: knife and knapsack shield duel in New York

My Romanian in France friend is a freaking genius and is combining different weapon and improvised defenses in sparring formats, from sticks and knives to backpacks and... blankets or jackets (?):