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I realy dislike the way boarding actions are conducted in star trek. I want to know how boarding actions and ship board security is handled in real life.

1. Do modern ships have dedicated assault teams as boarding parties or does the bridge secure enemy vessels like star trek ?

2. Are every crew on ship capable of using firearms when defending the ship ?

3. Many ships carry helicopters on board. Are these used to board enemy ships ?

What kind of ships do you mean?

Cargo, military, etc.?

evilcat4000 wrote:I realy dislike the way boarding actions are conducted in star trek. I want to know how boarding actions and ship board security is handled in real life.

1. Do modern ships have dedicated assault teams as boarding parties or does the bridge secure enemy vessels like star trek ?

2. Are every crew on ship capable of using firearms when defending the ship ?

3. Many ships carry helicopters on board. Are these used to board enemy ships ?

1. Marines fill this role nicely on US Naval warships.

2. As far as I know. This comes form two buddies of mine who were in the Navy. Also, all the branches train in firearms of some type.

3. Yes. Also launches fill this role nicely too.

evilcat4000 wrote:I realy dislike the way boarding actions are conducted in star trek. I want to know how boarding actions and ship board security is handled in real life.

1. Do modern ships have dedicated assault teams as boarding parties or does the bridge secure enemy vessels like star trek ?

2. Are every crew on ship capable of using firearms when defending the ship ?

3. Many ships carry helicopters on board. Are these used to board enemy ships ?

1. Nuclear powered or ships with nuclear weapons on board have Marine security forces on them. These forces are trained to prevent a threat from obtaining nuclear devices and/or causeing harm to the systems.

All navy ships retain some semblence of a security force even if it is pieced together from the crew.

2. Most sevices provide basic firearm training. Also in most cases there are weapons lockers located on ships which are accessable by security personel or comand personel.

3. Honestly I am not sure. I know that helo's are used to insert SEAL teams but not exactly right on top of the ship (target). Helo's would probably be used more as a supporting vehicle such as a gunship or something of the sort. The USCG uses CRRC's and Boston Whalers for ship to ship transport and boarding actions.

1. Do modern ships have dedicated assault teams as boarding parties or does the bridge secure enemy vessels like star trek ?

Ships that are going to conduct boarding operations generally embark a SEAL or other special forces team to do it, though they also can use a specially trained party of sailors or marines of if vessel has any.

2. Are every crew on ship capable of using firearms when defending the ship ?

Sailors generally get some basic firearms training, but warships don't carry nearly enough weapons to arm them all. There's little need anyway, there is basically no threat of boarding. The USN ceased training its sailors to repel borders in the 1920's. Though there where a few incidents in WW2, in one case the crew of a U-boat tried to board a Destroyer Escort in the Atlantic after being forced to the surface. The crew beat them off with rifles and a case of hand grenades they had on hand. The sub then tried to ram before sinking.

Today boarding operations are only launched against merchant vessels, and very rarely is any resistance encountered. The vast majority of ships have nothing to hid in there cargos after all. Star Trek style "seize their warships" stuff doesn't happen, a single machine gun or auto cannon could shred any boarding party. It doesn’t help that a lot of warships also carry MANPADS SAM's like the Stinger and SA-16.

3. Many ships carry helicopters on board. Are these used to board enemy ships ?

Yes. Most naval helicopters have provisions for carrying at least a few troops, and have hooks for fast roping. They also generally have provisions for door guns. The SH-60 is very good for this kind of work, since its based off the troop carrying Black Hawk.

Boarding died shortly after the battle Lepanto(Along with oar-drivengalleys)

Boarding actions are done via small boat with assistance from the crew of the ship being boarded. Boarding teams consist of sailors who normally fill a variety of other jobs on the ship. For a force boarding on to a hostile ship one would usually use helo's filled with special operation soldiers like SEALS. Such an action would normally take place at night. But this would be extremely rare as most captains would surrender their ship without hesitation to any armed Navy or Coast Guard vessel.

The Australian military are getting pretty good at boarding actions as our Navy and SAS seem to be doing it on a VERY regular basis thanks to Mr Howard.

Darth Gojira wrote:Boarding died shortly after the battle Lepanto(Along with oar-drivengalleys)

Boarding was the RNs prefered method of ship capture well into the mid-19th century.
Nelson made a name for himself by boarding and capturing an 80 and a 112 gun ship of the line when he was younger. It's where he lost his arm.

Wicked Pilot wrote:Boarding actions are done via small boat with assistance from the crew of the ship being boarded. Boarding teams consist of sailors who normally fill a variety of other jobs on the ship. For a force boarding on to a hostile ship one would usually use helo's filled with special operation soldiers like SEALS. Such an action would normally take place at night. But this would be extremely rare as most captains would surrender their ship without hesitation to any armed Navy or Coast Guard vessel.

No sane commericial vessel will give grief to a military ship. If there is something REALLY nasty on board you either attempt to have your lawyer fight it, or scuttle the ship.

Any serious warship in a position to be boarded is already screwed six ways to sunday. You may as well surrender or scuttle.

Ignorant twit wrote: No sane commericial vessel will give grief to a military ship. If there is something REALLY nasty on board you either attempt to have your lawyer fight it, or scuttle the ship.

I suppose that the fact that Australian forces are regularly forcibly boarding ships just proves that sane commercial vessels always heave to and give up.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/a ... a.ship.ap/

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/a ... index.html

Those two are the high profile ones. Our navy does probably one or two on other refugee and fishing boats every day.

Like this:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia/0 ... index.html

Any serious warship in a position to be boarded is already screwed six ways to sunday. You may as well surrender or scuttle.

Yes, but any serious warship will also be standing by to repel boarders, which results in the boarders getting seriously fucked up.

Darth Gojira wrote:Boarding died shortly after the battle Lepanto(Along with oar-drivengalleys)

Actually no, not at all. Boarding military vessels was very big in the age of sail and continued well into the American Civil War. And as I mentioned the USN kept training crews to repel boarding attacks through the 1920's.

Ignorant twit wrote:
No sane commericial vessel will give grief to a military ship. If there is something REALLY nasty on board you either attempt to have your lawyer fight it, or scuttle the ship.

Which is why you run into problems when its terrorists rather then smuggled oil or drugs your looking for.

This doesn't belong in SLAM. To Off Topic it goes.

Stormbringer wrote:This doesn't belong in SLAM. To Off Topic it goes.

Off Topic? Looks like HoS to me. Oh well, people screw up at times.

EDIT: much better!

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Ignorant twit wrote:
No sane commericial vessel will give grief to a military ship. If there is something REALLY nasty on board you either attempt to have your lawyer fight it, or scuttle the ship.

Which is why you run into problems when its terrorists rather then smuggled oil or drugs your looking for.

Speaking of which, we really shouldn't overlook the 12 years that the Australian Navy has spent in the Gulf doing boardings of nearly every vessel entering and exiting Iraqi harbours. Guaranteed that not all of those were friendly greeting parties.

weemadando wrote:
Speaking of which, we really shouldn't overlook the 12 years that the Australian Navy has spent in the Gulf doing boardings of nearly every vessel entering and exiting Iraqi harbours. Guaranteed that not all of those were friendly greeting parties.

Lots of nations have been responsible for such operations in the Gulf and Arabian Sea. Dutch, Spanish, American, French, British ect... Theres alot of traffic to go around.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

weemadando wrote:
Speaking of which, we really shouldn't overlook the 12 years that the Australian Navy has spent in the Gulf doing boardings of nearly every vessel entering and exiting Iraqi harbours. Guaranteed that not all of those were friendly greeting parties.

Lots of nations have been responsible for such operations in the Gulf and Arabian Sea. Dutch, Spanish, American, French, British ect... Theres alot of traffic to go around.

Yes, but Australia has maintained a constant presence there and the fact that our ships even in home waters do boarding actions on a near daily basis made our people the most qualified to do the job and as such, usually the ones who had to do the dirty work. I'm not saying that they did ALL of it, but they were certainly responsible for more than their fair share of boardings.

Frank Hipper wrote:

Darth Gojira wrote:Boarding died shortly after the battle Lepanto(Along with oar-drivengalleys)

Boarding was the RNs prefered method of ship capture well into the mid-19th century.
Nelson made a name for himself by boarding and capturing an 80 and a 112 gun ship of the line when he was younger. It's where he lost his arm.

I mean as a PRIMARY combat tactic. Correction to my post: Boarding died at Monitor vs. Virginia

In Gulf War I SEALs were being flown by helo to board merchant ships.

As for defending against boarders. An Aircraft Carrier has the Marine detachment and ship's security. Ship's security is made up of rated Master At Arms plus a bunch of people sent to fill 6 month billets from other departments. Security has access to .45s and 12gauge shotguns. I haven't ever seen any of them break out an M-14 but that doesn't mean other ships might not have them.

Up to a certain distance the CIWS can be lowered to be used against boarders but it's not really meant for that and it can only depress it's field of fire so far.

There are also many fixed .50 cal mounts around the ship on sponsons, weatherdecks and the fantail. I can't recall the exact amounts but there are mounts for at least the four corners, the faintail (the aft part of the ship) and I think one on each side. So that would be around 7 but there could be a little less or a couple more. (I really should have finished my ESWS quals )

I've heard that some of the surface ships (non-carriers) have a chain gun or something like it that can be mounted to the railing of the ship when needed. Lonestar might have a better idea how cruisers and the like are set up to repell boarders.

Carriers got 7 or 8 M2 mounts depending on class. Many USN vessels have traded about half their M2 machine gun mounts for Bushmaster 25mm cannon mounts. Rifles now generally are broken out when a ship is stopped in port as well. Cole had guards armed with such, but no ammo issued and no ROEs. That's of course changed and is the most important part.

Phalanx and RAM now both have anti surface mods. Though that’s more for the ownage of boghammers. Overall though pretty much all of these systems are meant to deal with EMB's, combat swimmers and various armed small craft, not boarders.

Tsyroc wrote: I've heard that some of the surface ships (non-carriers) have a chain gun or something like it that can be mounted to the railing of the ship when needed. Lonestar might have a better idea how cruisers and the like are set up to repell boarders.

I believe there is a rotating pool of 25mm cannons that can mounted on the side of Navy and Coast Guard vessels depending on need.

-edit: Sea Skimmer beat me to it.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Carriers got 7 or 8 M2 mounts depending on class. Many USN vessels have traded about half their M2 machine gun mounts for Bushmaster 25mm cannon mounts. Rifles now generally are broken out when a ship is stopped in port as well. Cole had guards armed with such, but no ammo issued and no ROEs. That's of course changed and is the most important part.

Phalanx and RAM now both have anti surface mods. Though that’s more for the ownage of boghammers. Overall though pretty much all of these systems are meant to deal with EMB's, combat swimmers and various armed small craft, not boarders.

Sea Chicken...ahem...I mean Sea Sparrow has a limited ASW use as well. The Saratoga shot one into the bridge of a Turkish destroyer a little while before she was decomissioned.

Most of the time ship's security wasn't issued ammo. I think in certain foreign ports the people on watch might actually have been issued 3 shotgun shells each but most of the time the shotguns were loaded (kind of the Barny Fife reasoning I think).