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My friend Ricky just IMed me about a bill in the New Orleans City Council called Ordinance 24,708. Its aim is to make tarot reading in Jackson Square (or anywhere else in New Orleans) illegal.

Ricky is a tarot reader, and he relies on this to supplement his income. Plus, I know practically all the Readers in the Square. They are nice people who wish no harm on anyone.

His goal in telling me this is to petition Mayor Nagin to veto this bill. His email address is rnagin @ at @ mayorofno.com (munged to keep the fucking spambots from harvesting the email, defeating the purpose of this plea for help)

It won't matter exactly where you live, but your assistance will be greatly appreciated. Lata and Happy Fragging!

P.S. please try to be cordial when you email Mr. Nagin. Flaming him will not accomplish the goal Ricky and I want to acheive. You don't have to be stiffly uber-formal, just don't bury him under a ten-page mountain of HTML expletives.

Is this serious? If it is, there is no way I would ever help a cause like that. Tarot is bullshit that helps contribute to idiots that believe in anything. Don't tell me it's just for entertainment either; there are plenty of people that believe in it. I'm sorry for your friend, but he is a snake oil salesman.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:My friend Ricky just IMed me about a bill in the New Orleans City Council called Ordinance 24,708. Its aim is to make tarot reading in Jackson Square (or anywhere else in New Orleans) illegal.

Ricky is a tarot reader, and he relies on this to supplement his income. Plus, I know practically all the Readers in the Square. They are nice people who wish no harm on anyone.

This is religious discrimination. If they don't plan on banning churches, they have no right to ban tarot card readers.

His goal in telling me this is to petition Mayor Nagin to veto this bill. His email address is rnagin @ at @ mayorofno.com (munged to keep the fucking spambots from harvesting the email, defeating the purpose of this plea for help)

It won't matter exactly where you live, but your assistance will be greatly appreciated. Lata and Happy Fragging!

P.S. please try to be cordial when you email Mr. Nagin. Flaming him will not accomplish the goal Ricky and I want to acheive. You don't have to be stiffly uber-formal, just don't bury him under a ten-page mountain of HTML expletives.

*looks, sighs, quietly puts ten-page mountain of HTML expletives away*

What is the exact wording of the ordinance? How is it justified?

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:My friend Ricky just IMed me about a bill in the New Orleans City Council called Ordinance 24,708. Its aim is to make tarot reading in Jackson Square (or anywhere else in New Orleans) illegal.

On what grounds, exactly?

Ricky is a tarot reader, and he relies on this to supplement his income. Plus, I know practically all the Readers in the Square. They are nice people who wish no harm on anyone.

Okay, here I've got to object. Wishing no harm or not, the fact of the matter is that there are people who take this stuff seriously. Tarot readers (and "readers" of other varieties) are taking the money of gullible people who believe that this stuff is for real. You can say it's "for entertainment purposes only" all you want, but what are you providing in return for the money people are giving you? The answer is simple: Nothing.

Next, would you like to ask us to help you defend panhandlers? The people who pose as homeless people and beg for cash on the sidewalks, raking in up to a couple hundred TAX FREE dollars an hour, doing basically nothing? You could argue that they give people peace of mind, making them think that they helped out a homeless person, but that peace of mind is a flagrant lie.

I'd seriously be interested on what grounds this bill is planning on making tarot readings illegal, however. Maybe this could be adopted by some state governments as well.

Superman, why did you have to find it necessary to post that flamebait?

One more attempt at initiating a flamewar in this thread, and it WILL be dealt with quite severely!!

It's rather evident that my feelings and convictions are strong in this matter. This is not about the merits of Tarot reading, it's about people possibly losing their jobs. People going on welfare. People causing the already-exorbitant taxes in New Orleans to go up further. People becoming a burden to their fellow citizen just because of some government asshole's personal vendetta. Judge not, lest you open yourself up to judgement in kind...

OK, can I put it this way: isn't there anything more useful that those people could be doing? Here in Los Angeles, there have already been a large number of psychic/tarot reader scams (where the "visionary" would basically demand donations of high-value items like cars and boats) which led the LAPD to crack down on them.

I don't really want to open a flamewar here, although it'll probably turn out that way....

Darth Wong wrote:

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:My friend Ricky just IMed me about a bill in the New Orleans City Council called Ordinance 24,708. Its aim is to make tarot reading in Jackson Square (or anywhere else in New Orleans) illegal.

Ricky is a tarot reader, and he relies on this to supplement his income. Plus, I know practically all the Readers in the Square. They are nice people who wish no harm on anyone.

This is religious discrimination. If they don't plan on banning churches, they have no right to ban tarot card readers.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:His goal in telling me this is to petition Mayor Nagin to veto this bill. His email address is rnagin @ at @ mayorofno.com (munged to keep the fucking spambots from harvesting the email, defeating the purpose of this plea for help)

It won't matter exactly where you live, but your assistance will be greatly appreciated. Lata and Happy Fragging!

P.S. please try to be cordial when you email Mr. Nagin. Flaming him will not accomplish the goal Ricky and I want to acheive. You don't have to be stiffly uber-formal, just don't bury him under a ten-page mountain of HTML expletives.

*looks, sighs, quietly puts ten-page mountain of HTML expletives away*

What is the exact wording of the ordinance? How is it justified?

Welcome to the United Christian Theocratic States of America.

As for the ordinance, I don't know the exact wording of it. I just found this out some minutes ago, and the NOCC likes to keep a bill's 'source code' secret from the populace anyway. Assholes.

Darth Wong wrote:This is religious discrimination. If they don't plan on banning churches, they have no right to ban tarot card readers.

How is it religious discrimination? Tarot card readers like this are not performing a religious rite, they are providing a service. There are "legitimate" tarot card readers out there, who DO believe in it as a part of a religious system, but they tend not to charge money for their services, and they look down in distain at the people who do charge $30 a reading. It's still a lot of flim-flam, but at least they aren't fleecing people in the process.

Hey, I have nothing against your friend. But, I also feel very strongly about people who claim to be psychics, tarot readers, etc. I posted my honest opinion on the matter! People in this country have a real problem with Christian fundamentalism, believing in supernatural nonsense, etc. I think Tarot only contributes to people's inability to think critically. It was not intended to be flamebait and if you read the posts, I am not the only one who feels this way.

I do hope everything works out for your friend, however. I don't like to hear about people losing their jobs.

Crayz9000 wrote:OK, can I put it this way: isn't there anything more useful that those people could be doing? Here in Los Angeles, there have already been a large number of psychic/tarot reader scams (where the "visionary" would basically demand donations of high-value items like cars and boats) which led the LAPD to crack down on them.

I don't really want to open a flamewar here, although it'll probably turn out that way....

They don't do that here. The most they charge is $5-10. No cars, no boats, no planes. Just a five-spot.

EDIT: Crayz, I don't see how your post can be misconstrued as flamebait, except by mental incompetents like D0rkstar or TOWNMNBS or Arm-in-his-Ass.

EDIT2: I'm hitting the bed in a minute. If I find this thread's gone sour and dumped to HoS, I'm finding who's responsible and showing them the business end of my Railgun!! Or they're gonna Bite the Big One in a TGOD...

N!73rZ, SDnet!

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:They don't do that here. The most they charge is $5-10. No cars, no boats, no planes. Just a five-spot.

Well, I guess I don't really see a problem with them doing that.

Thing is, if just *one* person really scams someone and it gets brought to the attention of the authorities, a law like the one that they're trying to pass is bound to be written.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:It's rather evident that my feelings and convictions are strong in this matter. This is not about the merits of Tarot reading, it's about people possibly losing their jobs. People going on welfare. People causing the already-exorbitant taxes in New Orleans to go up further. People becoming a burden to their fellow citizen just because of some government asshole's personal vendetta. Judge not, lest you open yourself up to judgement in kind...

Einhander, out of curiousity, if it suddenly became illegal to send spam, and all the spammers in the world suddenly went out of business, would you defend them? Would you demand that spam be legal in order that these people might continue to have jobs spamming? Otherwise, the spammers would be without jobs, and thus being a burden on their fellow citizen, just because of some government asshole's personal vendetta against spam.

Or, to return to the previous (and more fitting) example, panhandlers. Should panhandling be made illegal? It would deprive the panhandlers of their source of income, thus causing them to be unemployed. Just because of some government asshole's vendetta against panhandlers.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't strike me as a convincing argument.

Hotfoot wrote:

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:It's rather evident that my feelings and convictions are strong in this matter. This is not about the merits of Tarot reading, it's about people possibly losing their jobs. People going on welfare. People causing the already-exorbitant taxes in New Orleans to go up further. People becoming a burden to their fellow citizen just because of some government asshole's personal vendetta. Judge not, lest you open yourself up to judgement in kind...

Einhander, out of curiousity, if it suddenly became illegal to send spam, and all the spammers in the world suddenly went out of business, would you defend them? Would you demand that spam be legal in order that these people might continue to have jobs spamming? Otherwise, the spammers would be without jobs, and thus being a burden on their fellow citizen, just because of some government asshole's personal vendetta against spam.

Or, to return to the previous (and more fitting) example, panhandlers. Should panhandling be made illegal? It would deprive the panhandlers of their source of income, thus causing them to be unemployed. Just because of some government asshole's vendetta against panhandlers.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't strike me as a convincing argument.

Tarot reading is harmless. The service is consensual.

Getting spammed or accosted by panhandlers is not on both counts.

Spam eats the target user's bandwidth and mailbox space, plus it can introduce popup ads and spyware onto the victim's computer, further deepening the wrong done.

Panhandling provides no service whatsoever to the normal citizen, plus the panhandler tends to try to guilt-trip money off the user as well. The panhandler could also reek of hell and/or introduce infectious agents to the citizen just by bodily contact should the panhandler grab the citizen (which btw can make the citizen uncomfortable enough to defend himself with force).

Hotfoot wrote:Okay, here I've got to object. Wishing no harm or not, the fact of the matter is that there are people who take this stuff seriously. Tarot readers (and "readers" of other varieties) are taking the money of gullible people who believe that this stuff is for real. You can say it's "for entertainment purposes only" all you want, but what are you providing in return for the money people are giving you? The answer is simple: Nothing.

And how is this any different from a church doing its weekly income raping of the congregation and offering prayers to invisible men in the sky?

Einhenader Sn0m4n wrote:One more attempt at initiating a flamewar in this thread, and it WILL be dealt with quite severely!!

You're not a mod, nor do you speak for the mods of this forum. They don't need you being a backseat moderator and making threats on their behalf. Keep this kind of shit up, and I can very much assure you that YOU will be dealt with.

Yes, I did not appreciate that threat.

I don't believe that Tarot is "harmless." I have already given my reasons as to why.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Tarot reading is harmless. The service is consensual.

By the same argument, then so are the 419 scams out of Nigeria. I would also argue that tarot reading is not completely harmless.

Getting spammed or accosted by panhandlers is not on both counts.

Panhandlers do not always accost people. There are plenty which just sit or stand on a sidewalk, just waiting for people to give them money, usually with a sign of some sort. It's just as passive as tarot reading in that regard.

Spam eats the target user's bandwidth and mailbox space, plus it can introduce popup ads and spyware onto the victim's computer, further deepening the wrong done.

Still, if spamming is illegal, it means that people are out of work. Your previous argument was that you didn't want people to be out of work, and thus be a burden to the economy in their area. So now, unfortunately, like it or not, you will have to discuss the merits of tarot reading.

Panhandling provides no service whatsoever to the normal citizen, plus the panhandler tends to try to guilt-trip money off the user as well.

Those exact same things can be said of tarot reading. What service is provided?

The panhandler could also reek of hell and/or introduce infectious agents to the citizen just by bodily contact should the panhandler grab the citizen (which btw can make the citizen uncomfortable enough to defend himself with force).

The panhandlers in question aren't really homeless, Ein. They are professional liars, pretending to be homeless in order to live off of the good will of others. They are the people who only take money, and never an invitation to go get a meal.

Durandal wrote:And how is this any different from a church doing its weekly income raping of the congregation and offering prayers to invisible men in the sky?

Last I checked, churches don't usually have signs saying "$10 per sermon, $15 for baptism, $30 per confirmation." The donations are completely voluntary, and not required.

How about Scientology? Should that be protected as a religion?

Besides, Einhander already said that these people just do this for the additional income, no mention is made to any religion. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people doing the tarot readings are Christians. I still fail to see how it is "religious" to charge money to shuffle a deck of cards and read a response from a commercially published book of interpretations as to their meaning. When they do it in Vegas, it's called "poker" or "blackjack".

Superman wrote:Is this serious? If it is, there is no way I would ever help a cause like that. Tarot is bullshit that helps contribute to idiots that believe in anything.

Go fucking shoot yourself.

Don't tell me it's just for entertainment either; there are plenty of people that believe in it.

Like MYSELF.

I'm sorry for your friend, but he is a snake oil salesman.

Again, go shoot yourself.

Ein ~ You have my support. It is in fact religious deiscrimination. And as Wong said, unless they plan on banning all forms of religion in New Orleans, they can't do this. Some good things about the US..

verilon, I don't know if you even care, but pick up a copy of "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

Also, http://www.skepdic.com/tarot.html

Superman ~ SOME of us happen to be pagan... I'll leave it at that. If ya wanna argue, PM or IM me..

Isthis part of a eneral crackdown on street performances like that in general? Does this only target Tarot reading? If it is part of a crackdown on everything then you might be low on luck.

If the law targets Tarot reading with religious aspects then you could have a case, ALCU style.

At any rate good luck.

By the way, that "go fucking shoot yourself" comment was fucking brilliant. You are WAY to defensive and you take WAY to many things personally. Lighten up, dude.

Superman wrote:By the way, that "go fucking shoot yourself" comment was fucking brilliant. You are WAY to defensive and you take WAY to many things personally. Lighten up, dude.

Taken to PM cos dipshit won't do it himself.

verilon, go fuck yourself. Why don't you go give yourself a Tarot reading to see when the fuck you are going to stop being a moron.

Superman wrote:verilon, I don't know if you even care, but pick up a copy of "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

Also, http://www.skepdic.com/tarot.html

Yeah, honestly, tarot cards are just another way to part fools with their money. It carries absolutely no religious overtones, except those tacked on very recently by New Agers, as clairvoyants, fortune-tellers, and other such people hail from all religions. (There are notable examples of fortune tellers who were practicing Christians and did fortunes for the Popes: Nostradamus is a fine example of such.)

It's not necessarily religious.. but it can be used ceremonially. I personally don't. Hell, I hardly even use it as a measure to determine what will happen. It's more of an advice column, of sorts.