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has anyone but me notice how in some of his novels the events are eeirly like real life events ex. the end of Debt Of Honor a plane crashes into the capitol killing congress, the president, most of the government

Anget Fisher wrote:has anyone but me notice how in some of his novels the events are eeirly like real life events ex. the end of Debt Of Honor a plane crashes into the capitol killing congress, the president, most of the government

Some of them are realistic enough but most of it's firmly rooted in fantasy. He's one those writers that uses plausible events and then takes them to ridiculous extremes.

Actually that’s about the only one that has had much in the way similarities to real life. A lot was made of it right after 9/11 and Clancy ended up talking to far more then one Journalist along with making a few talk show appearances. He handled it quite well and never made any statements like "I told you so, I was right!"

The really big difference between the book and film versions of The Sum of All Fears stood out large. You know, people say bad things about Clancy, but I thought the Islamic fundementalist terrorists at the core of that novel were actually handled with some sensitivity and respect - especially when you consider the magnitude of their eventual crimes. They weren't the 2-D Bad Foreigners that hack writers so often fall back on. But anyway...
Comes the movie of SoAF. The Islamic terrorists are gone, replaced by Neo Nazis. Why? In an interview during the film's production, director Phillip Noyce apparently described the book villains as:
"... predictably a combination of Arabs and disaffected American Native Indians. Good Clancy bad guys. A coalition of the left."
That the folks from the book were reasonably fleshed-out villains counted for little. Of course that was mid 2001, so there was a kind of horrendous irony in the studios' decision.
It's trivial, certainly - but it jumped out on me six months after the attacks, when I read the director's words for the first time.

Clancy must have been totally awestruck by the events on 9-11. He must have been thinking something along the lines of "my god.. not this.. not this not this its not supposed to be real"

Clancy does a fair job of forshadowing what can happen. He was mostly correct on the B-1 and B-2 going into service. He did the F-22 fairly well. He used the right military technology for both Executive Orders and The Bear and the Dragon. The problem is his books when downhill after Sum of all Fears (time line wise).

The bowlderizing of Sum of All Fears in the script and the miscasting of Ben Asslick as Jack Ryan are the reasons why I will never watch that movie.

I think the Hyper war Clanceys phrase in Bear and Dragon was close to what we saw in Iraq.. Massive real time intel, almost all smart weapons.

I like Clancy's early work, but this later stuff is not as interesting. I might be overly sensitive but it almost seems like he has a personal beef against Asians, specifically Chinese and Japanese.

He rants too much about cutting back on the military, yet in every book the military pulls off Desert Storm like victories with little in the way of casulties.
Which to me seems like the military is sized just right.

Red October and Red Storm Rising are really good, IMHO, but for military thrillers I like Bond and Coyle better, but Coyle seems to be slipping too.

I guess its really hard to come up with a new book. I must be a tremendous effort.

The only difference is that in a Clancy novel - America wins!

ahahahahhahaa!

*gets shot*

I asked this question, because I am going through my Clancy collection one book at a time and I just finished Debt Of Honor

Clancy has been slipping lately, after Sum of All Fears (my all time favorite book by the way) it started going down hill. Rainbow Six was still pretty good but only because he deviated away from his main characters and built up the secondary characters.

As for his supposed 'precog' ability, well he just writes military/political thrillers. Come on, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what America's enemies are and then write a plot line about our military fucking them up.

And Weemadando, I with you. I think Clancy should write the ultimate fiction. Instead of America's military kicking ass, he should have France's military kicking ass. Now that would be good FICTION.

Knife wrote:And Weemadando, I with you. I think Clancy should write the ultimate fiction. Instead of America's military kicking ass, he should have France's military kicking ass. Now that would be good FICTION.

ROFL

For post 9/11 similarities you should check out "Storming Heaven" by Dale Brown of "Flight of the Old Dog" fame. Well funded terrorist organization uses airliners as weapons, its strikingly similar to the events of Sept 11th.


Clancy's works have slipped a bit, SoAF was interesting, but soooooo goddamed long it felt more like a text book than a techno thriller. "The Hunt for the Red October" and "Red Storm Rising" are still his swan songs IMHO.

If you want the best in techno/political thrillers go check out Larry Bonds(the author of the original HARPOON modern naval simulation "Vortex" and "Cauldron" as well as any of the works of Dale Brown(if you havent read "Flight of the Old Dog", you are missing out), or Stephen Coonts("Flight of the Intruder" still sets the bar for me in describing the Navy's Air War over Vietnam)

I remember reading a book about the USA and the UK fighting against Germany and France. With Germany doing most of the fighting and France doing most of the retreating.

Anyone who knows what I'm talking about with this limited amount of information? I can't remember what the name of the book or the author was

Falcata wrote:I remember reading a book about the USA and the UK fighting against Germany and France. With Germany doing most of the fighting and France doing most of the retreating.

Anyone who knows what I'm talking about with this limited amount of information? I can't remember what the name of the book or the author was

That would be "Cauldron" by Larry Bond. Excellent book, but its been years since I readit. If I remember right the French get their asses handed to them by of all folks, the Poles the German Army is the one that get stuck doing much of the fighting.

Sokar wrote:

Falcata wrote:I remember reading a book about the USA and the UK fighting against Germany and France. With Germany doing most of the fighting and France doing most of the retreating.

Anyone who knows what I'm talking about with this limited amount of information? I can't remember what the name of the book or the author was

That would be "Cauldron" by Larry Bond. Excellent book, but its been years since I readit. If I remember right the French get their asses handed to them by of all folks, the Poles the German Army is the one that get stuck doing much of the fighting.

I've got to read that book

Sokar wrote:

Falcata wrote:I remember reading a book about the USA and the UK fighting against Germany and France. With Germany doing most of the fighting and France doing most of the retreating.

Anyone who knows what I'm talking about with this limited amount of information? I can't remember what the name of the book or the author was

That would be "Cauldron" by Larry Bond. Excellent book, but its been years since I readit. If I remember right the French get their asses handed to them by of all folks, the Poles the German Army is the one that get stuck doing much of the fighting.

I read that, and couldnt help but think it was a US wankfest.
Alot of political/millitary 'thriller's just dont thrill, you can spot the ending from the first chapter. The plotlines are predictable, the charaters are also predictable.
Now Harry Turtledove's alternate history series Worldwar and Colonisation are much better. You dont know what will happen, as the goodguys are always on the backfoot.

France getting beaten by Poland? What year is this absurdity of a book set in?

Vympel wrote:France getting beaten by Poland? What year is this absurdity of a book set in?

Probably not even in this reality. I doubt our military can be salvaged in any near future, let alone be upgraded to beat a nuclear power...

Vympel wrote:France getting beaten by Poland? What year is this absurdity of a book set in?

bout 2006 IIRC. the setting is simple and absurd. The evil extremes of France and Germany take over their respective governments and bully their central european neigbors into economic servitude. This is to cover for their own contrived protectionist economic incompetence. {like America does not do that as well}
When the cent Euro's heroicaly resist, the good ol USA rides to the rescue like John Wayne with a sidekick with an English accent...natuarally, everything works out a ok for the goodies cause the joe blow Kraut/Frog never wanted to fight anyway

In short, contrived steaming BS.

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Vympel wrote:France getting beaten by Poland? What year is this absurdity of a book set in?

bout 2006 IIRC. the setting is simple and absurd. The evil extremes of France and Germany take over their respective governments and bully their central european neigbors into economic servitude. This is to cover for their own contrived protectionist economic incompetence. {like America does not do that as well}
When the cent Euro's heroicaly resist, the good ol USA rides to the rescue like John Wayne with a sidekick with an English accent...natuarally, everything works out a ok for the goodies cause the joe blow Kraut/Frog never wanted to fight anyway

In short, contrived steaming BS.

And how does the mighty Polish military beat France? Forgive my curiosity, please

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Vympel wrote:France getting beaten by Poland? What year is this absurdity of a book set in?

bout 2006 IIRC. the setting is simple and absurd. The evil extremes of France and Germany take over their respective governments and bully their central european neigbors into economic servitude. This is to cover for their own contrived protectionist economic incompetence. {like America does not do that as well}
When the cent Euro's heroicaly resist, the good ol USA rides to the rescue like John Wayne with a sidekick with an English accent...natuarally, everything works out a ok for the goodies cause the joe blow Kraut/Frog never wanted to fight anyway

In short, contrived steaming BS.

Ack.

Well, at least the hatfuckers left Russia out of it for once.

PeZook wrote:

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Vympel wrote:France getting beaten by Poland? What year is this absurdity of a book set in?

bout 2006 IIRC. the setting is simple and absurd. The evil extremes of France and Germany take over their respective governments and bully their central european neigbors into economic servitude. This is to cover for their own contrived protectionist economic incompetence. {like America does not do that as well}
When the cent Euro's heroicaly resist, the good ol USA rides to the rescue like John Wayne with a sidekick with an English accent...natuarally, everything works out a ok for the goodies cause the joe blow Kraut/Frog never wanted to fight anyway

In short, contrived steaming BS.

And how does the mighty Polish military beat France? Forgive my curiosity, please

Ahh, well it helps when the heroic Americans just happen to have got some millitary hardware into Poland just in the nick of time. While the Poles gallantly fight of the evil Hunnic hordes the US and British save the day just in time by landing a couple of divisions that just tilt the balance in the good guys favour, yadda yadda yadda.

Stuart Mackey wrote:

PeZook wrote:
And how does the mighty Polish military beat France? Forgive my curiosity, please

Ahh, well it helps when the heroic Americans just happen to have got some millitary hardware into Poland just in the nick of time. While the Poles gallantly fight of the evil Hunnic hordes the US and British save the day just in time by landing a couple of divisions that just tilt the balance in the good guys favour, yadda yadda yadda.

Bah *puke*

Forget what i was saying about reading this book. I'll just buy another Clancy