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The subject line pretty much says all.

Here in the U.S. (and Canada too, no doubt), the news media consistently reports that cigarette smoking is steadily declining.

However, when I was in college a couple of years ago--and in my travels
today--I can't help but notice a rather disconcerting trend: most of
the young, attractive women I see smoke. And by that, I don't mean these silly shits that, in a bar, get really drunk and start acting like someone else...I mean, addicted women. Among college-aged young
adults, I don't find this all that surprising (in spite of the kids' supposed
intelligence), if only for the fact that it was in our time a real forbidden fruit; however, among the thirty-something, educated professionals,
I'm rather taken aback.

I don't have a grudge against smoking. I don't particularly like being
around it, but I don't think less of someone's character if they're
addicted to lighting one every thirty minutes. (Well, except for the
case of Liv Tyler...I soooooo thought her lips would be super extra-kissable
if she'd quit. They're only extra-kissable now

Yet...I can't help but to think, "Jeez. That girl is gorgeous now, but
in ten years, that amount of smoking will quickly catch up with her.
Does she not realize this? In thirty years, at BEST, it'll limit her mobility from the lack of aerobic fitness, making her bones more brittle; and at
worst, she'll have uncurable cancer." I think the answer is, yes, the smarter girls understand that but don't give it any serious thought. Most people have a severe aversion to thinking about anything long-term, especially where it concerns health.

I've chewed tobacco on occassion, so I know nicotine gives an interesting
"high": a definite stimulant, but when I was used to chewing (i.e.,
the room wouldn't spin around), the stimulation was somewhat offset
with a calmative effect. Thus, it was a kind of simultaneous upper AND
downer. It still tasted bad.

Is that high enough to perpetuate a habit? For me, no. But beyond
the addiction aspect, I'm still stunned to find that most cute, intelligent
girls I meet are the ones huddled out in the doorways of buildings
on smoke breaks. It's not that they're simply the ones that catch
my attention, either. I do notice the uglier girls, mostly because my
standards have dropped dramatically in the past two years, LOL.

Is it a weight-loss thing, or what? I imagine there are multiple causes,
of course...still, ugh. I can't contain my surprise! The price of those
damn things is insane...figure $30.00 a week just for a year, and you
come up with over $1500 US dollars!

For the good of the thread and message board I hereby restrain myself from commenting on this thread.

Yes, women who are attractive often smoke. There are many, many reasons for the connection, often made where attractive women are often thrust into a social caste that finds smoking more acceptable. Many of my ex-girlfriends who were tall, slim, and gorgeous, also smoked.

(Author's note: For the sake of my continued healthy sex life, I will now insist that my wife, who doesn't smoke, is gorgeous).

Addendum to above: If you are dating a thoroughly gorgeous young woman, but she is self-destructive in the manner of boozing, smoking, or whatever, just hop on and enjoy the sex. It'll be amazing. Then find someone sane and settle down.

Lagmonster wrote:Addendum to above: If you are dating a thoroughly gorgeous young woman, but she is self-destructive in the manner of boozing, smoking, or whatever, just hop on and enjoy the sex. It'll be amazing. Then find someone sane and settle down.

So, what you're saying is, just let her self destruct and just exploit her for sex?

While most people would probably expect me to say "Rock On!", I personally find this morally inexcusable.

From an ex-smoker and an ex-chewer all I can say is if you do not like it, leave them cutties to us. (As wife glares at me as I type)Mmmmm I mean leave them to other people who don't mind.

They probly tried it for some stupid reason (as I belive all smokers did). Once addicted, it's damn hard to quite (I stopped smoking after about 9 years about a year ago. I STILL get cravings.). At this point, it's not so much a choice as a requirement.... it's not called an addiction for nothing.

RayCav of ASVS wrote:

Lagmonster wrote:Addendum to above: If you are dating a thoroughly gorgeous young woman, but she is self-destructive in the manner of boozing, smoking, or whatever, just hop on and enjoy the sex. It'll be amazing. Then find someone sane and settle down.

So, what you're saying is, just let her self destruct and just exploit her for sex?

While most people would probably expect me to say "Rock On!", I personally find this morally inexcusable.

You hypocrite. You say this while simultaneously chatting up a defenceless, thoroughly naïve (and probably underage) internet bot. People like you just sicken me.

(Shhh... no, son, the leg-bone's connected to the hip-bone...)

Eleas wrote:

RayCav of ASVS wrote:

Lagmonster wrote:Addendum to above: If you are dating a thoroughly gorgeous young woman, but she is self-destructive in the manner of boozing, smoking, or whatever, just hop on and enjoy the sex. It'll be amazing. Then find someone sane and settle down.

So, what you're saying is, just let her self destruct and just exploit her for sex?

While most people would probably expect me to say "Rock On!", I personally find this morally inexcusable.

You hypocrite. You say this while simultaneously chatting up a defenceless, thoroughly naïve (and probably underage) internet bot. People like you just sicken me.

(Shhh... no, son, the leg-bone's connected to the hip-bone...)

The whole bot thing was a joke

RayCav of ASVS wrote:The whole bot thing was a joke

I'm shocked.

Eleas wrote:

RayCav of ASVS wrote:The whole bot thing was a joke

I'm shocked.

heh.

What I am shocked about though, is that your post count is lower than mine

RayCav of ASVS wrote:heh.

What I am shocked about though, is that your post count is lower than mine

Oh shut up.

Usually super models and actresses need to do everything they can to stay hot. Usually that includes dieting and excercising more often than most people, but I would have thought it would also entail refraining from smoking. I'm surprised that Liv Tyler smokes. Maybe that's why she doesn't look nearly as good in RL than she does in the movies.

seanrobertson wrote:I can't help but notice a rather disconcerting trend: most of the young, attractive women I see smoke. And by that, I don't mean these silly shits that, in a bar, get really drunk and start acting like someone else...I mean, addicted women.

Bars are always full of cigarette smoke. Popular people go out to bars. Popular people also pay a lot of attention to their hair, makeup, etc.

Are you sure you're seeing the trend you think you're seeing? In my experience, while it's true that some girls are just ugly, 90% of the difference between an "ugly" girl and a "cute" girl is usually makeup, hair, clothes, and attitude. Bar-hoppers are the girls who pay the most attention to their appearance, they're the most superficial, and (bingo!) they smoke. This is true among guys as well as girls, but of course, we only notice the girls.

I don't have a grudge against smoking. I don't particularly like being around it, but I don't think less of someone's character if they're addicted to lighting one every thirty minutes.

Character, no. Intelligence, yes. As soon as I see someone light up a cigarette, my estimate of their IQ drops by about 20. Some of the smokers out there may get pissed off, but that's just too bad; if you can't admit that smoking is stupid, that's your problem.

If it weren't for the awkward teenaged years when people will do just about anything (no matter how moronic) to appear "cool" (thus forming the addiction), there would be almost no smoking in this country.

Is it a weight-loss thing, or what? I imagine there are multiple causes, of course...

Mindless social conformism is my first guess: "all the cool people smoke, so if I want to be cool, I'd better smoke too".

Mike, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of make up and beauty. While makeup undoubtedly adds to a woman's attractiveness, I think that Catherine Zeta Jones without makeup is more attractive than my fiancee on her best day, and she's not ugly. I think that it is more like a 50-50 relationship than a 90% thing.

I have not noticed any corellation in my area between smoking and relative hotness. Actually, thats not true. The better looking someone in my area is, the less likely they are to smoke.

Master of Ossus wrote:Mike, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of make up and beauty. While makeup undoubtedly adds to a woman's attractiveness, I think that Catherine Zeta Jones without makeup is more attractive than my fiancee on her best day, and she's not ugly. I think that it is more like a 50-50 relationship than a 90% thing.

Have you ever seen Catherine Zeta-Jones without makeup? I haven't either, but you might be surprised. Professional makeup artists, hair designers, lighting, computer image processing algorithms that smooth wrinkles and erase blemishes in real-time, and even airbrushes all get into the act before you see a famous person.

Toronto may not be Hollywood, but it's often called "Hollywood North", and we do get our fair share of actors around here. Generally speaking, seeing one up-close is a big let-down (my brother saw Jennifer Love-Hewitt downtown just a few months ago, and said he was horrified at how old she looked in real life). A lot of them look all worn-out from drug abuse and cigarette smoking; it's murder on your skin, but all of that can be covered up before you see someone on TV.

Darth Wong wrote: Have you ever seen Catherine Zeta-Jones without makeup? I haven't either, but you might be surprised. Professional makeup artists, hair designers, lighting, computer image processing algorithms that smooth wrinkles and erase blemishes in real-time, and even airbrushes all get into the act before you see a famous person.

Very, very true.

If there's one thing I dislike about some women, it's overuse of makeup. You get near them, and through all the perfume they smell like byproducts from a chemical factory. Sometimes the smell is strong enough that I just want to gag.

My girlfriend (even before I met her) rarely wears makeup, and I think she looks fine that way; it's not like she has a zit problem or anything. Some other guys have said that she isn't that pretty, but I doubt any of them have even seen without makeup women that they think are pretty...

Darth Wong wrote:A lot of them look all worn-out from drug abuse and cigarette smoking; it's murder on your skin, but all of that can be covered up before you see someone on TV.

One of my math teachers in high school also went there for high school herself (and was taught by my history teacher as well (!) ), so one day we dug out the old yearbooks in the library to find what she looked like.

Mein Gott, her cigarettes have taken their toll!

phongn wrote:Mein Gott, her cigarettes have taken their toll!

This is new: a Vietnamese using German.

Darth Wong wrote:Have you ever seen Catherine Zeta-Jones without makeup?

Touchee.

Darth Wong wrote: Are you sure you're seeing the trend you think you're seeing? In my experience, while it's true that some girls are just ugly, 90% of the difference between an "ugly" girl and a "cute" girl is usually makeup, hair, clothes, and attitude. Bar-hoppers are the girls who pay the most attention to their appearance, they're the most superficial, and (bingo!) they smoke. This is true among guys as well as girls, but of course, we only notice the girls.

Ahh. Now here's a truly wise statement to behold. Of course, it also happen to be my own conclusion.

I'm allergic to cigarette smoke. Last time I went to a bar with some friends against my better knowledge, I got sick. This all originated from my brother, long-time addict with no hope of quitting. He does have an excuse however; he already got sick back in the 60's from car painting. Smoking is one of the few things he's got left that makes him feel better. It also makes it impossible for me to visit him more than two hours max. He smokes like a coal plant.

Smoking is horrible. Just don't do it.

Fun old trick a crazy neighbor of mine taught me, Keep a Coffie Can of Diseal or Beer somonewhere and if somone lights up ask them kindly to put it out, If they don't fling the beer/diseal on thier face and ask them kindly to put themsleves out

(Don't try this at home kids)

RayCav of ASVS wrote:So, what you're saying is, just let her self destruct and just exploit her for sex? While most people would probably expect me to say "Rock On!", I personally find this morally inexcusable.

Whoa! Ease up on them hammers, son. Have you ever dated a gorgeous person in your teen years or in university, and tried to rid them of cigarettes? Try it. Try to meet a beautiful person in a college bar, date them a bit, and then try to evict their smoking habit. Let me know how it goes. I won't say it's impossible, but I bet Vegas isn't giving you good odds.

If you have a fling with a person with a disagreable habit, and you care enough about the habit that you want to exorcise it to continue being comfortable in the relationship, you will far more often find yourself breaking up, or getting dumped because you harp too much on their habit, than the other person actually breaking the habit. Given that fact, I hold to my statement of: "Enjoy the sex, but be ready to bid the relationship adieu and find someone else."

Don't be so quick to assume that you have to bend so quickly to such responsibility. Smoking is dumb, we know that. But you will lose out if you make a crusade against that habit a requirement of your relationships.

Mr Bean wrote:Fun old trick a crazy neighbor of mine taught me, Keep a Coffie Can of Diseal or Beer somonewhere and if somone lights up ask them kindly to put it out, If they don't fling the beer/diseal on thier face and ask them kindly to put themsleves out

(Don't try this at home kids)

*roflmao* The irony of getting a sore throat, nearly breaking the same ankle again, and having a bad back. Mr Bean has made the day quite funny, thanks Bean