P-90

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2003-08-04 11:55pm

is this a good firearm info on it

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-08-05 12:05am

No. Magazine jams like a bitch.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-05 12:10am

It's also lightly constructed and its performance has been greatly over hyped. Only three nations bought a significant number, and one has trashed them in favor of G36K's.

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-08-05 12:43am

PDWs like the P90 are designed to be last-ditch self-defense weapons for vehicle crews and/or rear-echelon personnell, not true combat weapons; they're a lot better than nothing, but you'd almost always be infinitely better off using an assault carbine or at least a full size submachine gun.

If you must have a PDW, the the Heckler & Koch MP7 completely trashes the P90 in every possible way -- it's smaller, longer-ranged, more accurate, penetrates better, doesn't jam as easily, doesn't get all the bullets in the magazine scrambled up if dropped, and even looks much cooler.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2003-08-05 12:47am

got a pic

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-08-05 12:49am

P90: http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm

HK-MP7: http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg49-e.htm

And it looks like a high-tech Uzi, too.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-08-05 01:05am

Striderteen wrote: If you must have a PDW, the the Heckler & Koch MP7 completely trashes the P90 in every possible way -- it's smaller, longer-ranged, more accurate, penetrates better, doesn't jam as easily, doesn't get all the bullets in the magazine scrambled up if dropped, and even looks much cooler.

That HP-7 does look pretty cool. However, do you think non-standard ammo would be a concern?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-05 01:11am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:
That HP-7 does look pretty cool. However, do you think non-standard ammo would be a concern?

The P90 also uses a non-standard round, 5.7x28mm. Only one other FN weapon, a handgun, uses it. And that gun is also quite rare.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-08-05 01:15am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:
That HP-7 does look pretty cool. However, do you think non-standard ammo would be a concern?
The P90 also uses a non-standard round, 5.7x28mm. Only one other FN weapon, a handgun, uses it. And that gun is also quite rare.

Do you think these will catch on with NATO forces?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-08-05 01:28am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Do you think these will catch on with NATO forces?

Perhaps the pistol, in very limited numbers. It has a large magazine and exceptional performance for a handgun. NATO forces are unlikely to use something that would require an entirely new round to be put into production and issued.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-08-05 01:37am

Damnit, just use the HK53 with a box magazine (40 or 50 rnds) and have the MP-7 as a backup.

Lt. Dan · Post by **Lt. Dan** » 2003-08-05 01:42am

I don't know how I feel for either of them. They both look cool but looks aren't everything. Much less when you under fire.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-05 01:44am

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Perhaps the pistol, in very limited numbers. It has a large magazine and exceptional performance for a handgun. NATO forces are unlikely to use something that would require an entirely new round to be put into production and issued.

Its stopping power is to low to get adapted; it really is and will remain a specialist weapon. Though with 95% of personal more likely to shoot them self then the enemy low powered handguns have an advantage. Evidently that was a major factor in convincing some armies to drop down to 9mm.

Damnit, just use the HK53 with a box magazine (40 or 50 rnds) and have the MP-7 as a backup.

You forgot the "use multi billion dollar budget to bring an infantry platoon on every mission" part.

Lt. Dan · Post by **Lt. Dan** » 2003-08-05 01:47am

BTW, who uses the mp7?
And thanks for the site, I like it.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-05 01:54am

Lt. Dan wrote:BTW, who uses the mp7?
And thanks for the site, I like it.

...You might try reading the appropriate page on the site in question.

The MP-7, first announced in 2000, entered production in 2001 and, according to some sources, is adopted by some German special units, such as KSK, and also offered for export sales and for NATO-trials as an another could-be NATO PDW (the only other competitor is FN P-90).

New guns often take several years to be evaluated and accepted into a nations military service so its unlikely that there have been many other customers buying more then a few examples for trials.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-08-05 01:56am

Lt. Dan wrote:BTW, who uses the mp7?
And thanks for the site, I like it.

Stormtroopers at a Star Wars convention determined to set matters straight once and for all about the "rebel matter"

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-05 03:04am

The P90 is an interesting design project, but it is not and should not be considered a weapon suitable for combat.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-08-05 10:57am

The entire PDW concept is a dumbfuck idea. It's just an excuse to give gun manufacturer's something to do. The HK 53 or any other small weapon using 5.56x45mm is fine for the job, the AKS-74U has been the gold standard in PDW on the other side of the fence for over two decades.

Zed Snardbody · Post by **Zed Snardbody** » 2003-08-05 12:09pm

Unfortunately the West is in need of a PDW. The berata 9mm just doesn't have the stopping power or the penetration to deal with regular troops. It works fine for taking out your average street thug or militia man, but against proper troops with decent body armor, its just not going to cut it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-08-05 12:35pm

Zed Snardbody wrote:Unfortunately the West is in need of a PDW. The berata 9mm just doesn't have the stopping power or the penetration to deal with regular troops. It works fine for taking out your average street thug or militia man, but against proper troops with decent body armor, its just not going to cut it.

I don't dispute that, I'm saying that the concept for some new weapon with new ammo is stupid.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2003-08-05 01:41pm

okay. I didn't want this thread to be hijacked into a SGC thread. Please start your own thread and stop SPAMMING MINE!!!!

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-08-05 01:44pm

Agent Fisher wrote:okay. I didn't want this thread to be hijacked into a SGC thread. Please start your own thread and stop SPAMMING MINE!!!!

But its so fun!

Seriously though, both use p-90's so its somewhat on-topic.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-08-05 02:15pm

You already got a ton of them...

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-05 06:29pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:The P90 looks futuristic to many and that likely a major reason why the SCG uses them, but then they say that about the AUG as well and I'd argue its the definition of an ugly gun.

Couldn't agree more. The AUG is butt-fucking-ugly.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-08-05 06:32pm

Howedar wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:The P90 looks futuristic to many and that likely a major reason why the SCG uses them, but then they say that about the AUG as well and I'd argue its the definition of an ugly gun.
Couldn't agree more. The AUG is butt-fucking-ugly.

The AUG is a very nice weapon though. Once you fix the barrel melting, magazine warping and the IDIOTS who shoot with their face jammed up to the sight...