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Bill Sweetman had an article on the F-22 in the current issue of International Air Power Review. That, along with some documents I've read on the web (one of which I posted, showing a comparison of F-22 and F-15 flight envelopes), have revealed some of the impressive capabilities of the F-22.

First, the F-22 is the first operational USAF fighter cleared to operate at altitudes in excess of 60,000 ft without a pressure suit for the pilot. Apparently, the construction of the G-suit for the F-22 is such that it can act as a partial pressure suit for the pilot, allowing him to retain consciousness in the event of a cabin pressurization failure. The current limit for US fighters is 50,000 ft. No biggie, you're thinking? Read on.

One of the most salient features of the comparison of F-22 and F-15 flight performance was its ability to pull high-G turns at altitudes and speeds far in excess of any current fighter. At its upper altitude limit of around 60,000 ft plus, the F-22 can maintain at least a 5-G turn from Mach 0.9 up to about Mach 1.7. This ability to turn is acheived through the thrust vectoring nozzles, which provide pitch and roll control at altitudes where conventional aerodynamic surfaces lose effectiveness.

This leads to some pretty interesting conclusions. With its ability to cruise and maneuver effectively at high speeds and very high altitudes, the F-22 will be a bear to shoot down with current and planned generations of SAMs. In fact, I would hazard to guess that only the S-300/400 family (SA-10, SA-12, and SA-20) will possess sufficient energy and turning capability at those altitudes to pose much of a threat, aerodynamically speaking. Most other missiles will be so low on energy by the time they reach that altitude, and so limited in maneuver by their control surfaces, that successfully engaging the F-22 will be nearly impossible. It is true that many missiles are listed as having altitude capabilities in excess of 80,000 ft, including the widely used SA-2 and SA-3 variants, but, these missiles will be severely limited in energy and ability to maneuver, so that any F-22 that gets targeted by these systems should be able to outmaneuver them at altitude.

Furthermore, the speed and turning ability of the F-22 will pose severe problems for the missile's guidance systems. Paul Metz, F-22 chief program pilot for Lockheed, stated that most, if not all, current missiles targeted from any direction save from a narrow cone directly ahead of the F-22 (where F-22 stealth is at its most effective), will be incapable of maintaining a track on the F-22 due to avionics limitations. In essence, the missiles will have to turn so fast to maintain a lock on the F-22 that they will encounter gimble lock, resulting in a failure of missile guidance and control. Most of today's missiles are optimized to track targets at altitudes of around 20K to 30K feet, travelling at speeds from Mach 0.7 to Mach 1.3. Dealing with a target traveling at 60K+ feet traveling at Mach 1.7+ will be beyond the capabilities of most current and planned adversary air defense systems.

So, on the off chance that an F-22 is tracked and targeted by an air defense system, which will be difficult at best given its low observable characteristics, the F-22 should be far better equipped to defeat SAM attacks than any other aircraft in service. In fact, it will be extremely difficult to down, given current air defense technology. Until directed energy weapons become widespread, the F-22 should be able to perform its missions with near impunity.

Oh, and the official F-22 top speed has been released. It is Mach 2.0, limited by aerodynamic surface heating considerations. Paul Metz stated that the F-22 can easily exceed this speed, and that training pilots to avoid stressing the airframe through overspeed will need to be taken into account.

MKSheppard wrote:It can't stay stealthy lugging iron bombs, and the bomb bay is too small
to carry any appreciable number of bombs.

This thing will NEVER be built, period.

MKSheppard wrote:You underestimate Russian ingeunity.....

Alyeska wrote:Ah yes, the "Raptor" killer they built which is supossed to have greater stealth, yet its engine intakes have nice REALLY FREAKING HUGE 90 degree angles on them which just to happen to give it a REALL FREAKING HUGE radar signature.

MKSheppard wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Ah yes, the "Raptor" killer they built which is supossed to have greater stealth, yet its engine intakes have nice REALLY FREAKING HUGE 90 degree angles on them which just to happen to give it a REALL FREAKING HUGE radar signature.

IDIOT........all they have to do is build a new version of their S-300 S-400
SAM system to catch the F-22 and sell it to anyone who asks, and then we
have a giant white elephant.......

phongn wrote: F-22? It'll be built, if only because the F-15s won't last forever. And it can haul some Small Diameter Bombs (not a great number, but some).

I've got one concern about this F/A-22 issue. Obviously, the change was made to try to make the aircraft, and it's high cost, more palatable to Congress. However, changing the radar from the APG-77 to whatever the F-35 radar will be designated does present some issues. While it is true that the APG-77 is optimized for A2A work, it did have SAR and ISAR modes built in from the start. There is some question as to whether the F-35 radar will incorporate a GMTI function, but, in the barest sense, it is incorrect to state that the APG-77 lacked any air to ground functionality. That's the beauty of an AESA radar, they can be tailored to perform virtually any RF mission. However, data I've seen in open sources suggest that the APG-77, in the A2A mode, will have far greater detection range than the set being designed for the F-35. Something on the order of 25-30% more range. Against a non-stealthy fighter, this difference is probably moot. But in situations where the target is a low-flying, small RCS aircraft or missile, the difference could become acute. I hope that significant, and potentially important, air-to-air functionality is not being scrapped simply to satisfy Congress......

.....and to save money. You see, the transmit/receive elements in the APG-77 are a fairly early iteration of AESA technology. They are very powerful, but also very expensive. The newer T/R elements in the F-35 are much cheaper to produce, being based on a different technological approach, but they also lack some of the power possessed by the F-22's radar. Plus, the APG-77 has around 2000 T/R elements, whereas the F-35 is intended to have only 1000.

Again, in most cases, this change will probably be unimportant. But, I think Suphi is incorrect in stating that this change is being made to improve F-22 capabilities. Some capabilities in the A2G mode might be improved somewhat, but, at the expense of A2A performance. The real driver, to my mind, is the money. USAF is desperate to drive down F-22 costs, and switching to this newer radar is a means to save on total program costs or get more airframes. I just hope USAF is extremely confidant that the new radar will be capable of meeting all future A2A missions.

Well, another benefit of AESA radars is that they can operate with Low Probability of Intercept modes that should prevent detection by any RWR until the missiles activate their internal seekers and go terminal. In other words, it will be too late. LPI essentially consists of using the individual T/R elements in pencil beam mode, with virtually no sidelobes. In addition, the individual T/R elements can fire at different frequencies, confusing the RWR gear and making the job of locating the threat radar much more difficult. The RWR gear may show that the aircraft is being pinged, but it won't be able to give any azimuth or altitude information for the threat.

The F-22 is being built with the most comprehensive datalinking scheme ever developed for a combat aircraft, incorporating all the features of full-up Link-16/FDL/SADL plus a number of additional, still classified features. The F-22 will be able to fire AMRAAMs with its radar off, relying on radar data from AWACS, other fighters, or even some ground radars. So, it's not really a case where the F-22 will have to use its radar to obtain target tracks. It certainly can, should the situation warrant it, and until the MC2A program comes to fruition, if ever (that's an entirely different subject I'd like to comment on some time), the F-22 radar probably will be required to track LO cruise missiles and other threats beyond the capability of current radars like the APG-70 and the AWACS APY-1/2.

MKSheppard wrote:Where the fuck are the squadrons of F-22s that are supposed to magically
lay waste to our enemies? Oh that's right, the first squadron isn't supposed to enter service until 2007 or somfink

Alyeska wrote: That in itself would be most dificult. They never built a SAM that could hit the SR-71, I doubt they can build one to shoot this down.

MKSheppard wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Ah yes, the "Raptor" killer they built which is supossed to have greater stealth, yet its engine intakes have nice REALLY FREAKING HUGE 90 degree angles on them which just to happen to give it a REALL FREAKING HUGE radar signature.

IDIOT........all they have to do is build a new version of their S-300 S-400
SAM system to catch the F-22 and sell it to anyone who asks, and then we
have a giant white elephant.......

MKSheppard wrote:It can't stay stealthy lugging iron bombs, and the bomb bay is too small
to carry any appreciable number of bombs.

This thing will NEVER be built, period.

MKSheppard wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Ah yes, the "Raptor" killer they built which is supossed to have greater stealth, yet its engine intakes have nice REALLY FREAKING HUGE 90 degree angles on them which just to happen to give it a REALL FREAKING HUGE radar signature.

IDIOT........all they have to do is build a new version of their S-300 S-400
SAM system to catch the F-22 and sell it to anyone who asks, and then we
have a giant white elephant.......

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:So then there is no defense at ALL against F-22s?

SWPIGWANG wrote:just blow up the bases and tankers whatever.....

but the USA still have allies....damn it my evil plan is foiled again!!!!

Except, that Tankers, AEW aircraft and bases would be defended by the same F/A-22's, along with a myriad of F-teen's.